Fri 4th Mar: SL: Warrington Wolves v Catalans Dragons KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Ant]

Powel is kind of in the same position as Watson was last year, new coach expected to have a brilliant team overnight, but teams take time to be remoulded 

 

 

 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Then we differ on our estimation of Daryl, in my opinion yes he is good but not in the manner of being amongst the best, in just the short 3 examples I gave there are two hookers, if you say he is on a level grading with those two then I would say to you your opinion is increased by him playing for your club.

Roby is a great player, but he benefits from the natural uplift of being a Saints, Leeds or Wigan player that improves your status overnight irrespective of performances. 

Being not as good as Cameron Smith doesn't stop players being judged as world class. In reality, he is one of the best hookers in the world of RL, if the likes of Hodgson can tear it up in the NRL and world RL then it is hardly crazy to believe Clarke can be judged to be world class. 

But, this isn't a debate that will change minds, we have a difference of Rugby opinion, happy with that, all good!

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Ant said:

Powel is kind of in the same position as Watson was last year, new coach expected to have a brilliant team overnight, but teams take time to be remoulded 

 

 

 

You could see last night that this is a team that will take some time to click. It's why I'm not gonna write us off after a poor performance, because that clearly isn't the best we will be. 

I'm OK with a few losses as we adapt, I have little interest in playing it safe and watching quality players become grafters to win tight games. There is a place for that, but I want more. 

[Ant]

Exactly, entertainment is the game - you want to watch wins ground out, there are teams that do that 

[Lowdesert]

12 minutes ago, Ant said:

Exactly, entertainment is the game - you want to watch wins ground out, there are teams that do that 

Winnings the game mate.  Catalans have done that for the last two weeks whilst being short of regular first teamers.  I’m sure Powell would have taken 1-0 if he had chance.

Early season yet anyway.  

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

I thought Goudemand and Jullien were two who gave what I would call, for them, 'typical' performances - that is very sound, wholly committed, but often doing the unflashy stuff which, by definition, tends not to catch the eye.

The exceptions to that would be Jullien's neat little grubber kick leading to a try, and his counter-attacking break on the left late on that let him put Franco away.

Mind you, I think it is unfair that Les Dracs were allowed to have no fewer than nine Frenchmen in their seventeen; there should be a cap on that, maybe four or five!

[Scubby]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Roby is a great player, but he benefits from the natural uplift of being a Saints, Leeds or Wigan player that improves your status overnight irrespective of performances. 

Being not as good as Cameron Smith doesn't stop players being judged as world class. In reality, he is one of the best hookers in the world of RL, if the likes of Hodgson can tear it up in the NRL and world RL then it is hardly crazy to believe Clarke can be judged to be world class. 

But, this isn't a debate that will change minds, we have a difference of Rugby opinion, happy with that, all good!

I don't want to infer that Clark isn't an excellent player. I suppose with all those natural raw attributes he had as a 20 year old I was hoping he would be involved in regular huge moments and huge performances on the big stages by now. 

He does seem a humble and sometimes reticent player to really stamp his authority on a game despite all that natural talent. As Dave says, everybody is entitled to an opinion.

[Davo5]

42 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You could see last night that this is a team that will take some time to click. It's why I'm not gonna write us off after a poor performance, because that clearly isn't the best we will be. 

I'm OK with a few losses as we adapt, I have little interest in playing it safe and watching quality players become grafters to win tight games. There is a place for that, but I want more. 

Wire desperately need a couple of big,dominant front rowers,but they’ve known that for a couple of seasons now & haven’t sorted the problem.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Wire desperately need a couple of big,dominant front rowers,but they’ve known that for a couple of seasons now & haven’t sorted the problem.

At the match last night it was clear that we needed somebody who could provide a spark, whether that is a barnstorming run, a big hit, or even one of Chris Hills drives where he carries three men for 10m. 

We have some size but it's that aggression I think that's really lacking. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

I don't want to infer that Clark isn't an excellent player. I suppose with all those natural raw attributes he had as a 20 year old I was hoping he would be involved in regular huge moments and huge performances on the big stages by now. 

He does seem a humble and sometimes reticent player to really stamp his authority on a game despite all that natural talent. As Dave says, everybody is entitled to an opinion.

This will live long in my memory! 

[Scubby]

18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This will live long in my memory! 

You know that old saying... you have to lose 2 to win 1

[Chris22]

I think the debate about whether a player is world class depends on how strictly you define it. For me, there are no players in Super League that are world class. There are very good players, Clark being one of them (and, now the best hooker in SL, in my view) and he would be a good NRL player, but he wouldn't be in the top 3 or 4 NRL hookers IMO.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I think the debate about whether a player is world class depends on how strictly you define it. For me, there are no players in Super League that are world class. There are very good players, Clark being one of them (and, now the best hooker in SL, in my view) and he would be a good NRL player, but he wouldn't be in the top 3 or 4 NRL hookers IMO.

Yep, it's a subjective one. I personally don't go too prescriptive on these things, but the hooker measure for me is that if Hodgson can go and become a major force in the NRL, then there are a few hookers here that can. 

I also think that things like the World Cup in 2017 where England did well, losing a very tight contest in Brisbane showed that many of the players, including many from SL are world class. Narrowly losing a world cup final suggests your players have some talent. 

[Chris22]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yep, it's a subjective one. I personally don't go too prescriptive on these things, but the hooker measure for me is that if Hodgson can go and become a major force in the NRL, then there are a few hookers here that can. 

I also think that things like the World Cup in 2017 where England did well, losing a very tight contest in Brisbane showed that many of the players, including many from SL are world class. Narrowly losing a world cup final suggests your players have some talent. 

A fair point regarding Hodgson, as the likes of Clark and Roby were and still are superior to him. The 2017 England team, for me, was greater than the sum of its parts. McGillvary was out standout in the tournament for England but I thought our collective effort as the team was the highllight.

Turning back to the world class debate, I'd say you could make an argument that Walmsley, Knowles, D Clark and Tomkins are the four players in Super League are currently are world class.

[clogdance]

6 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

 

No doubt about it, Catalans are now one of the big clubs of Super League, they don’t just have a strong 17, they’ve got decent players beyond that, that’s key to the success of Leeds, Saints and Wigan over the years. Those are now the big 4 in Super League imo.

If Catalans can get back to full strength maybe some of the players mentioned could be loaned out to Toulouse.

Who cares ?

[dkw]

Do Wires have any size in the youth team that are ready to step up, because in the games I've seen this season they have struggled up the middle big time, and with that squad will likely continue to all season.

[Scubby]

42 minutes ago, clogdance said:

Who cares ?

You seem to care quite a bit. You contribute a lot to Catalans and Toulouse threads  Thanks for your posts

[Scubby]

38 minutes ago, dkw said:

Do Wires have any size in the youth team that are ready to step up, because in the games I've seen this season they have struggled up the middle big time, and with that squad will likely continue to all season.

Philbin is like the Jimmy Krankie of front rowers.

[dkw]

18 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You seem to care quite a bit. You contribute a lot to Catalans and Toulouse threads  Thanks for your posts

There's not much dumber than taking time to tell people you don't care about something. 

[Scubby]

30 minutes ago, dkw said:

There's not much dumber than taking time to tell people you don't care about something. 

I've been on here long enough to see them all come and go. Toronto's loss is Toulouse and Catalans' gain.

Saint Toppy didn't chip in last night I see - must have been enjoying the performances of Julien, Goudemonde, Franco, Romano, De Costa, Garcia, Dezeria, Seguire et al too much. 

[audois]

20 hours ago, Scubby said:

De Costa playing really well out of dummy half. Dezaria looks a great prospect.

Dezaria first arrived from Provence back in 2016. But he struggled to make a name for himself. Think he may have played at Leigh. If he did he didn't show up there. He then turned up at Toulouse playing in Championship but they let him go. He kept at it though turning up in Perpignan to play for St Esteve. He's flowed hasn't he! Good on him.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, audois said:

Dezaria first arrived from Provence back in 2016. But he struggled to make a name for himself. Think he may have played at Leigh. If he did he didn't show up there. He then turned up at Toulouse playing in Championship but they let him go. He kept at it though turning up in Perpignan to play for St Esteve. He's flowed hasn't he! Good on him.

Has a great build and makes a lot of metres on contact. It is obvious McNamara likes him as a forward.

[clogdance]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

You seem to care quite a bit. You contribute a lot to Catalans and Toulouse threads  Thanks for your posts

Bless

[TheFlash]

11 hours ago, meast said:

Really? and how many thousands of Featherstone, Leigh or Bradford fans for example would travel to the South of France every other weekend?

Almost none. 

[TheFlash]

Good game tonight. Catalans made it hard for themselves at the end - their yellow card was really stupid... They had done the work on defence and we're getting numbers back. He should have just bounced up off the Warrington player, pushing down on him while doing so. All game though, I thought their workrate on defence was massive.

 

Wire... Lightweight in the middle unit. Makes it difficult to create momentum. They actually look like quite a small team physically across the park.