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Fri 11th Mar: SL: St Helens v Warrington Wolves KO 20:00 (Sky)


Who will win?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • St Helens
      27
    • Warrington Wolves
      7

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  • Poll closed on 11/03/22 at 20:30

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1 minute ago, Padge said:

That would be given as a scrum, what is a turnover is if the opposition makes no attempt to play the ball and it rebounds in to touch.

It was brought in because, once again coaches worked out how to cheat the laws, you could kick the ball hard at an opponent and get the ball in touch and win a scrum.

 

52 minutes today. Saints kick it, Wire stick a leg out, it goes into touch. Ref shouts turnover, Saints get a PTB in the centre of the pitch. 

What you are talking about has been in place for decades, you only get the scrum if it's played at. This gave Saints a PTB instead of a scrum. 

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3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I'm not saying Walker was blameless but the constant was two lead runners with absolutely no interest in running a threatening hard line and being surprised that they might end up being used. Bullock, especially, was just clueless. He's managed to get himself in the way without even knowing it.

I've just watched it again, one was a rifle pass from about a metre away into Pholbons body, and one was a rifle into Bullocks head. 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I've just watched it again, one was a rifle pass from about a metre away into Pholbons body, and one was a rifle into Bullocks head. 

I've it watched it back too. Philbin's hands are at his side, Bullock is daydreaming. Walker needs to scan better, sure, but the lead runners are in error here too. You started off by saying the props weren't expecting it - their role in these plays is to expect the ball. 

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9 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I've it watched it back too. Philbin's hands are at his side, Bullock is daydreaming. Walker needs to scan better, sure, but the lead runners are in error here too. You started off by saying the props weren't expecting it - their role in these plays is to expect the ball. 

That isn't true. Their role is to be a decoy. Those passes were not catchable. 

But tbh, happy to disagree, what we agree on is that it was s*"* play! 

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22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

52 minutes today. Saints kick it, Wire stick a leg out, it goes into touch. Ref shouts turnover, Saints get a PTB in the centre of the pitch. 

What you are talking about has been in place for decades, you only get the scrum if it's played at. This gave Saints a PTB instead of a scrum. 

You are talking about an error and not a law. The law is in place, the ref getting it wrong is a part of the game. A bit like teams getting offside wrong.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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42 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yeah, this was the marker wasn't it. Like you, I've seen it given before, but I dont understand what offence the marker committed. He was onside and hit the ball carrier. 

Not saying it is right but it is always given. 

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2 minutes ago, Padge said:

You are talking about an error and not a law. The law is in place, the ref getting it wrong is a part of the game. A bit like teams getting offside wrong.

Well tbh I'm not sure, because they have messed around so much recently with what is a scrum, what is a tap and what is a PTB, I'm not sure what the rules are. 

I'm interested to watch out for that next time, because I don't believe it is the first time I've seen it, although that could just have been when scrums were banned. 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't true. Their role is to be a decoy. Those passes were not catchable. 

But tbh, happy to disagree, what we agree on is that it was s*"* play! 

Neither of us know what was called as the play so we don't know who the decoy was.

But you're not much of a decoy if you don't run with your hands up and eyes on the ball. We train these guys to run a line but also to be ready for the ball. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well tbh I'm not sure, because they have messed around so much recently with what is a scrum, what is a tap and what is a PTB, I'm not sure what the rules are. 

I'm interested to watch out for that next time, because I don't believe it is the first time I've seen it, although that could just have been when scrums were banned. 

You will enjoy the game more if you don't watch out for it. Enjoy the sport on display and on't get wound up about they did this we did that, we got punished they didn't. It just poisons your enjoyment of the game.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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The word that comes to mind ti describe Saints is ruthless. In 2015, when we won the league the previous year, I got the impression we were satisfied with what we had achieved.

This side isn't. Our line speed is incredible. Our commitment in defence is excellent, just 28 points conceded in 5 games. Our attack looks sharper this year too. Woolf and the squad deserve huge credit.

Didn't think Warrington had too many ideas apart from throw it wide and hope. Not much that Williams or Widdop could do to influence the match.

Saints fans are very lucky to have this team and I'm going to appreciate them while they're here. Long way to go this year but delighted with our start.

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14 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

The word that comes to mind ti describe Saints is ruthless. In 2015, when we won the league the previous year, I got the impression we were satisfied with what we had achieved.

This side isn't. Our line speed is incredible. Our commitment in defence is excellent, just 28 points conceded in 5 games. Our attack looks sharper this year too. Woolf and the squad deserve huge credit.

Didn't think Warrington had too many ideas apart from throw it wide and hope. Not much that Williams or Widdop could do to influence the match.

Saints fans are very lucky to have this team and I'm going to appreciate them while they're here. Long way to go this year but delighted with our start.

Indeed, and when they fall away, they will all disappear from here again. 

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I’ve watched the first 4 weeks of the season thinking it’ll be a walk in the park for Saints this year but tonight I finally felt like there was some holes there. It was a weird game. To think it finished with such a big gap was strange. They’re like a boa constrictor Saints, they just strangle you and pick up the scraps but if a side can get them panicking, they’ll be a shot. Wire wasted there shot to do that in the first 20 mins. 

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53 minutes ago, Padge said:

You will enjoy the game more if you don't watch out for it. Enjoy the sport on display and on't get wound up about they did this we did that, we got punished they didn't. It just poisons your enjoyment of the game.

I think you are getting confused with my point. I haven't complained about refereeing. 

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Jeez, Saints are just one relentless machine. Warrington looked very small in comparison but lets give big wraps to the likes of Percival and Makinson who don't half graft and make hard yards and give the pack some rest. Fantastic centre / wing play.

Roby is just a machine also, yet this isn't the classy Saints side of old, they just grind you down, do the basics spot on and eventually put the foot on the gas at critical times.

I'm interested to see what Wigan do because they too looked good (other than against Toulouse). Do they have the technical ability to play the same chess game as Saints and give them a taste of their own medicine ??

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you are getting confused with my point. I haven't complained about refereeing. 

I meant don't worry about interpretations, refs have to make quick decisions which may seem to go against another refs decision.

I may have worded my previous post badly, I was saying what the ref sees he gives, just as supporters shout about what they see, and supporters see things differently.

You will never get all refs to see all incidents the same, so treat the decisions as such, it goes for or against that's life.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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8 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Jeez, Saints are just one relentless machine. Warrington looked very small in comparison but lets give big wraps to the likes of Percival and Makinson who don't half graft and make hard yards and give the pack some rest. Fantastic centre / wing play.

Roby is just a machine also, yet this isn't the classy Saints side of old, they just grind you down, do the basics spot on and eventually put the foot on the gas at critical times.

I'm interested to see what Wigan do because they too looked good (other than against Toulouse). Do they have the technical ability to play the same chess game as Saints and give them a taste of their own medicine ??

We can’t play them at an intense midfield battle and expect to win  but I watched the first 30 mins tonight thinking we can get at them ‘if’ we’re brave and willing to chance our arm in our half. We need French back in and to be at full tilt but if we get that and Field is in top gear as well, I think they’ll trouble them. 

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7 minutes ago, Padge said:

I meant don't worry about interpretations, refs have to make quick decisions which may seem to go against another refs decision.

I may have worded my previous post badly, I was saying what the ref sees he gives, just as supporters shout about what they see, and supporters see things differently.

You will never get all refs to see all incidents the same, so treat the decisions as such, it goes for or against that's life.

As I say, I'm not concerned with interpretations, I agree with you and that is the stance I take, it ruins enjoyment. 

My comments are around the rule changes that I think are poorly thought through and a bit jumbled. I think we are closer to Union with the weird rules. 

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If they don't already, they should. What? All coaches in all teams should be making each and every player watch the video of this game. In my view there is so much to learn about Saints from doing so. There's not much most teams can do about the size of their players, but there is so much to learn about physicality, speed of defence at the PTB, etc etc .

Let's hope they do so because we can't have another season of arrogant Scousers strutting the stage.👍😀👍😀

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10 hours ago, Dave T said:

Why isn't the marker allowed to tackle the arm of the dummy half? At what stage did that become a penalty, or has it always been the case? 

The law hasn’t changed as far as I can remember. If the marker reaches around the player playing the ball early to prevent the dummy half passing then that was/ is a penalty. It’s technically interference at the PTB. The marker also has to remain square

Caveat to the above is that I didn’t see the incident in last night’s match - other things got in the way

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1 hour ago, LeeF said:

The law hasn’t changed as far as I can remember. If the marker reaches around the player playing the ball early to prevent the dummy half passing then that was/ is a penalty. It’s technically interference at the PTB. The marker also has to remain square

Caveat to the above is that I didn’t see the incident in last night’s match - other things got in the way

Thanks that is what happened, so penalty. Its a rule I find a touch odd and unnecessary. How long does the dummy half get to do what he wants? 

Because the marker is allowed to tackle the dummy half. 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Thanks that is what happened, so penalty. Its a rule I find a touch odd and unnecessary. How long does the dummy half get to do what he wants? 

Because the marker is allowed to tackle the dummy half. 

I know what you mean. Basically the marker can’t be waiting for the dummy half but the dummy half can’t just stand there with the ball. It’s another one of those judgement calls

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What I find difficult to fathom is exactly how Warrington are going to play to win those big games? Obviously Powell has an idea but that pack may be able to be effective in a one off, but they cannot bend the top defences week in week out.

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8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

What I find difficult to fathom is exactly how Warrington are going to play to win those big games? Obviously Powell has an idea but that pack may be able to be effective in a one off, but they cannot bend the top defences week in week out.

Early on I was quite pleased with the forwards, I thought we took it to them, Bullock and Cooper were doing well, but they can only keep that up for so long. We are a pack of 2nd rowers and they eventually got battered into submission. 

I don't know what's happened to Philbin who is a shadow of his former self, but we need some impact players instead of a load of back rowers who go about their business efficiently. We've failed our first two real tests miserably. 

Sure, the pack will be good enough to hold their own in many games, but based on how we are right now, it's not a pack that can take us into the top 4.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Early on I was quite pleased with the forwards, I thought we took it to them, Bullock and Cooper were doing well, but they can only keep that up for so long. We are a pack of 2nd rowers and they eventually got battered into submission. 

I don't know what's happened to Philbin who is a shadow of his former self, but we need some impact players instead of a load of back rowers who go about their business efficiently. We've failed our first two real tests miserably. 

Sure, the pack will be good enough to hold their own in many games, but based on how we are right now, it's not a pack that can take us into the top 4.

Change the names snd you coukd be talking about Leeds, we and Warrington seem to be in exactly the same predicament.

 

biggest difference is you’re doing it with a new coach were doing it with one that won’t see the season (maybe not even the month) out

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Early on I was quite pleased with the forwards, I thought we took it to them, Bullock and Cooper were doing well, but they can only keep that up for so long. We are a pack of 2nd rowers and they eventually got battered into submission. 

I don't know what's happened to Philbin who is a shadow of his former self, but we need some impact players instead of a load of back rowers who go about their business efficiently. We've failed our first two real tests miserably. 

Sure, the pack will be good enough to hold their own in many games, but based on how we are right now, it's not a pack that can take us into the top 4.

A team of second rowers is a good summary. I know some like him but having Mata'utia in the centre is also like having another back rower in the team. Strong and breaks tackles but isn't going to do much from more than 20 out.

I actually have some sympathy with the spine here. It's easy to poke fun at Widdop and Williams and even Ratchford, but if the forwards are going side to side instead of straight and hard then the structure goes out of the window - which is basically what it was like watching Cas (not the 2017 version but every season after that).

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