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How do we fit them all in?


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We seem to have more depth and competition for places in the England squad, especially the backs, than I can ever remember. Some good players are going to have to be left out.

We've got Tomkins, Connor and Welsby for FB. 

Young, Johnstone, Makinson, Charnley, Ashton and Davies for wingers

Newman, Wardle, Percival, Gildart, Farnworth, King, Griffin and Wrench for centres

Lomax, Widdop and Pryce for 6

Williams, Dodd and Gale for 7.

Lots of forward options as well

Who gets left out?

Can we find a spot for both Connor and Tomkins?

Which half back pairing do we use?

Gets me excited for the WC

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pryce will be used more as a full back and as talented and confident as he is he is still learning the game and in my opinion nowhere near international level yet, saying that i've watched him come through the scholarship and academy and he WILL be as good as his dad was if not better but let's not rush these kids till they're physically and knowledgeably ready to step up.

As good as Connor is (another i saw come through our youth programme) and he is, there's obviously an attitude or personality aspect that Mr Wane doesn't like and if that doesn't fit in with what he wants then so be it, i'd rather see a successful, winning England team than one that shoehorns players in due to public pressure etc.

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I said on the previous thread that I would go with the following (at the moment)

1. Tomkins (c)

6. Lomax

7. Dodd

14. Welsby (utility back for cover across 1 to 7)

I think Welsby is most likely to push for a starting spot from the other contenders at full back. He is the type of player who just makes things happen on a pitch.  In which case Connor comes into contention as utility and impact off the bench.

A lot can change though.

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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28 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Pryce will be used more as a full back and as talented and confident as he is he is still learning the game and in my opinion nowhere near international level yet, saying that i've watched him come through the scholarship and academy and he WILL be as good as his dad was if not better but let's not rush these kids till they're physically and knowledgeably ready to step up.

As good as Connor is (another i saw come through our youth programme) and he is, there's obviously an attitude or personality aspect that Mr Wane doesn't like and if that doesn't fit in with what he wants then so be it, i'd rather see a successful, winning England team than one that shoehorns players in due to public pressure etc.

Pryce should be in the 24 if he has a good season. You want those special players around the squad pushing the other guys. He can probably get a game against France/Greece to see what he has and will build into the best 17 over the next 1-2 years.

I'm sure he has lots to work on but elite players should be fast tracked into elite environments.

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16 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I said on the previous thread that I would go with the following (at the moment)

1. Tomkins (c)

6. Lomax

7. Dodd

14. Welsby (utility back for cover across 1 to 7)

I think Welsby is most likely to push for a starting spot from the other contenders at full back. He is the type of player who just makes things happen on a pitch.  In which case Connor comes into contention as utility and impact off the bench.

A lot can change though.

Agree, it would be nuts not to go with Lomax/Dodd - they are clearly the best option atm. They are so comfortable working together and Williams simply cannot handle the crunch moments. He is a good player but over thinks so much is creates hesitancy. I really hope Shaun Wane keeps his eyes open and doesn't lean on what he knows (e.g. Williams, Farrell, Gildartt etc.)

Welsby is an interesting one. This guy is like a pinball. You expect him to lose confidence when he makes a mistake but he seems to thrive in the big moments and is very dangerous.

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Plenty of selection headaches already for  the World Cup already for me:

1. Williams or Dodd at 7? No doubt the latter is in the better form but the former's experience and proven quality may just pip it for him

2. Centres? Absolute minefield- any of Percival, Newman, Gildart, Farnworth, KPP & Welsby are realistic contenders for me 

3. Who is your utility 14? Clark to speed up the game from dummy half or Welsby for his sheer versatility & ability must be the front-runners

4. Who are the bolters? Young, KPP, Pryce & Farnworth the obvious ones but I'm sure there are more

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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As for the backline. In the modern game you simply cannot beat size and athleticism. 

Young, Farnworth, Newman and Johnstone are all superb athletes so that would be my backline.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

 

Young, Farnworth, Newman and Johnstone are all superb athletes so that would be my backline.

I think, right now, that backline would be crucified by Australia. 

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16 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think, right now, that backline would be crucified by Australia. 

Possibly, but it's hard to say due to a lack of recent internationals.

What do you think our strongest backline is?

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Just now, JM2010 said:

Possibly, but it's hard to say due to a lack of recent internationals.

What do you think our strongest backline is?

That’s the million dollar question, as this thread highlights. 

I can’t look beyond Tomkins at fullback. He’s been comfortably the best English fullback for the last few years. At 32, this is likely his last World Cup and a lot can change in four years but right now, Welsby is probably in pole position to replace him though I do like the look of Pryce, too.

As for the wingers, Makinson, like Tomkins in his position, is comfortably the best English winger in the game. As for the other side, you’ve got Handley, Marshall, Young, Ashton and Davies. I think through personal preference alone, I’d have to go with Davies at Catalans, I rate him highly. 

Centres is where it’s tough. You’ve got Percival, Newman, Pearce-Paul, Lyne and Sarginson in the Elite training squad, the likes of Connor not in that squad and then Gildart and Farnworth in the NRL. I like Percival but I do wonder how his defence would get on at international level, I like the little I’ve seen of Pearce-Paul at centre, Gildart’s always gone well at Wigan and Farnworth has been pretty good in a pretty poor Broncos side in Australia. I can’t split Gildart, Farnworth and Pearce-Paul right now, though I do like Newman and hope he stays fit. 

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7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

That’s the million dollar question, as this thread highlights. 

I can’t look beyond Tomkins at fullback. He’s been comfortably the best English fullback for the last few years. At 32, this is likely his last World Cup and a lot can change in four years but right now, Welsby is probably in pole position to replace him though I do like the look of Pryce, too.

As for the wingers, Makinson, like Tomkins in his position, is comfortably the best English winger in the game. As for the other side, you’ve got Handley, Marshall, Young, Ashton and Davies. I think through personal preference alone, I’d have to go with Davies at Catalans, I rate him highly. 

Centres is where it’s tough. You’ve got Percival, Newman, Pearce-Paul, Lyne and Sarginson in the Elite training squad, the likes of Connor not in that squad and then Gildart and Farnworth in the NRL. I like Percival but I do wonder how his defence would get on at international level, I like the little I’ve seen of Pearce-Paul at centre, Gildart’s always gone well at Wigan and Farnworth has been pretty good in a pretty poor Broncos side in Australia. I can’t split Gildart, Farnworth and Pearce-Paul right now, though I do like Newman and hope he stays fit. 

At the moment I'd probably go

Tomkins

Makinson

Percival

Farnworth

Young

I'll probably change my mind as the season goes on though

 

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40 minutes ago, Jughead said:

That’s the million dollar question, as this thread highlights. 

I can’t look beyond Tomkins at fullback. He’s been comfortably the best English fullback for the last few years. At 32, this is likely his last World Cup and a lot can change in four years but right now, Welsby is probably in pole position to replace him though I do like the look of Pryce, too.

As for the wingers, Makinson, like Tomkins in his position, is comfortably the best English winger in the game. As for the other side, you’ve got Handley, Marshall, Young, Ashton and Davies. I think through personal preference alone, I’d have to go with Davies at Catalans, I rate him highly. 

Centres is where it’s tough. You’ve got Percival, Newman, Pearce-Paul, Lyne and Sarginson in the Elite training squad, the likes of Connor not in that squad and then Gildart and Farnworth in the NRL. I like Percival but I do wonder how his defence would get on at international level, I like the little I’ve seen of Pearce-Paul at centre, Gildart’s always gone well at Wigan and Farnworth has been pretty good in a pretty poor Broncos side in Australia. I can’t split Gildart, Farnworth and Pearce-Paul right now, though I do like Newman and hope he stays fit. 

So, if we go with Gildart and Pearce-Paul as I selected Farnwoth.

The one I picked is Young, Farnworth, Newman and Johnstone and you said it would be crucified by Australia.

You go for Makinson, Gildart, Pearce-Paul and Davies.

I'll stick with mine I think.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So, if we go with Gildart and Pearce-Paul as I selected Farnwoth.

The one I picked is Young, Farnworth, Newman and Johnstone and you said it would be crucified by Australia.

You go for Makinson, Gildart, Pearce-Paul and Davies.

I'll stick with mine I think.

Thank God you’re not involved in selecting then, is all I will say. 

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Said on another post, just put all England available player in a hat and pick at random. The result will still be the same, England at best will make semi final. At least if we picked at random it would be entertaining rather than wane trying/wanting to pick a side to out energy out fitness the Aussies, which we cannot do.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Live after death said:

Said on another post, just put all England available player in a hat and pick at random. The result will still be the same, England at best will make semi final. At least if we picked at random it would be entertaining rather than wane trying/wanting to pick a side to out energy out fitness the Aussies, which we cannot do.

 

 

You think England will lose to one of Tonga, PNG, Wales or Cook Islands in the semi?

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10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So, if we go with Gildart and Pearce-Paul as I selected Farnwoth.

The one I picked is Young, Farnworth, Newman and Johnstone and you said it would be crucified by Australia.

You go for Makinson, Gildart, Pearce-Paul and Davies.

I'll stick with mine I think.

How can you possibly leave Makinson out - the best winger in SL and easily in the top 3 in the world. - Farnworh...ffs

Funny how Gildart us suddenly in everyone's England team now he's in the NRL - at best an average SL player.

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1 minute ago, OMEGA said:

Numerous people missing Tom Johnstone out of their back lines is a surprise

I think he's a great player but there is a reason he's playing for Wakefield and not one of the big SL clubs.

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1 hour ago, Jughead said:

I think, right now, that backline would be crucified by Australia. 

What do you imagine Australias back line is or will be

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1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think he's a great player but there is a reason he's playing for Wakefield and not one of the big SL clubs.

I can tell you for a fact that 3 NRL clubs and the top 4 clubs in the SL have all tried to buy him over the last 5 years

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Just now, OMEGA said:

I can tell you for a fact that 3 NRL clubs and the top 4 clubs in the SL have all tried to buy him over the last 5 years

And so they should but he's still at Wakefield so something isn't right.

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1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

And so they should but he's still at Wakefield so something isn't right.

Somethings very very right, it’s called loyalty, a rare commodity in sports these days

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5 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

How can you possibly leave Makinson out - the best winger in SL and easily in the top 3 in the world. - Farnworh...ffs

Funny how Gildart us suddenly in everyone's England team now he's in the NRL - at best an average SL player.

Gildart was part of the 2018 test series, the 2019 GB tour and would have played  last year against France but for injury. He’s not being selected by people just because he now plies his trade in Australia, it’s because he’s been very consistent in a Wigan side and looked good in two of his three games for England against NZ in 2018. 

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