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NRL a league of its own


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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

(b) The tackled player shall without delay regain their feet where they are tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face their opponent’s goal line and drop or place the ball on the ground in front of their foremost foot. - if a player drops the ball on the ground it would be a knock on

A knock-on is to knock the ball towards the opposition dead ball line with hand or arm.

The tackled player is required to maintain control of the ball. If he loses control in any direction after the tackle is complete, this is lost possession. It is NOT a knock-on. 

This is a common error, committed even by some NRL refs who say "knock-on" when they ought to say "lost possession" or "lost ball". There are occasions when the distinction is significant.

It remains legal to drop the ball and play it on the half volley. This is deemed consistent with maintaining control.

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

(c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.

This is an obvious anachronism and ought to be changed to "two opponents..."

The original PTB was intended to be a contest for possession between tackled player and marker. An acting half was permitted to stand directly behind each player involved in the contest.

When the decision to prohibit the marker from striking was taken, his acting half should thereafter have been formally referred to as a second marker in the rulebook. The NRL have done this. In the UK, things seem to move more slowly and in mysterious ways.

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

Interpretations are needed for the whole lawbook, not only this area.

Your (a), (d), and (e) points are essentially about latitude i.e. how much is given. It can vary but, as I mentioned on another thread, in these areas the applications of the rules are remarkably consistent across the major RL nations.

Degree of latitude given will be a factor whether the PTB rule is "make a genuine attempt to make contact with the foot" or merely retain "balance and control". That doesn`t address the fact that these two options are fundamentally different. 

Edited by unapologetic pedant
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20 hours ago, The Rocket said:

But we do anyway.🤢 #no6againforchargedowns !!

If you remain keen to keep badgering media outlets covering NRL, I reckon it`s time for #Whowasobstructedmate?

There were several tries rubbed out at the weekend by Bunker obstruction calls in NRL and NRLW where either nobody was obstructed or the responsibility was on defenders to adjust.

Like knock-on madness, the obstruction rule has taken on a life of its own entirely detached from the rulebook.

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

(c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.

Even this one is weird as two markers are allowed.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Just now, Dunbar said:

Even this one is weird as two markers are allowed.

From what I could read, they seem to suggest that there is a player in the ruck (ball carrier and marker) and a dummy half on each team at the PTB. 

But much of the wording is clunky, dated or ambiguous. 

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11 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

If you remain keen to keep badgering media outlets covering NRL, I reckon it`s time for #Whowasobstructedmate?

There were several tries rubbed out at the weekend by Bunker obstruction calls in NRL and NRLW where either nobody was obstructed or the responsibility was on defenders to adjust.

Like knock-on madness, the obstruction rule has taken on a life of its own entirely detached from the rulebook.

Do you actually enjoy the game?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

From what I could read, they seem to suggest that there is a player in the ruck (ball carrier and marker) and a dummy half on each team at the PTB. 

But much of the wording is clunky, dated or ambiguous. 

On the RFL site the wording is...

Player marking (c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

On the RFL site the wording is...

Player marking (c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.

Acting halfback

(f) A player of each team, to be known as the acting halfback, may stand immediately and 
directly behind their own player taking part 
in the play-the-ball and must remain in this 
position, until the play-the-ball movement is 
complete

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Acting halfback

(f) A player of each team, to be known as the acting halfback, may stand immediately and 
directly behind their own player taking part 
in the play-the-ball and must remain in this 
position, until the play-the-ball movement is 
complete

Yes, I saw that but is says "their own player taking part in the play-the-ball" and the defending team is not taking part in the play the ball, and the marker is specifically stated as a different role.

But after our long chat about heeling and kicking, I am not going down this rabbit hole (well, any further down than we already are!).

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Just now, Dunbar said:

Yes, I saw that but is says "their own player taking part in the play-the-ball" and the defending team is not taking part in the play the ball, and the marker is specifically stated as a different role.

But after our long chat about heeling and kicking, I am not going down this rabbit hole (well, any further down than we already are!).

This is clearly counting the ball carrier and marker as being involved in the PTB, the description of 2nd marker as an acting half back confirms this. 

I suspect it is a legacy of the old PTB where you could challenge for it. Effectively the PTB is seen as a ruck, with two players involved and two acting halves. 

I think that is all relatively clear, it is just a terrible way of describing a modern PTB. I don't understand why somebody can't write it in relatively simple terms. 

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26 minutes ago, Damien said:

Impressive.

It gets better 

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100910568

The news comes as the NRL moves to introduce a $350,000 salary cap to the NRLW competition, while the minimum pay for players will increase by 25 per cent.

Clubs will also be able to employ two marquee players on a full-time basis outside of the cap, with private health insurance among other newly introduced benefits to bring the women's competition in line with the men's.

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1 minute ago, Copa said:

It gets better 

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100910568

The news comes as the NRL moves to introduce a $350,000 salary cap to the NRLW competition, while the minimum pay for players will increase by 25 per cent.

Clubs will also be able to employ two marquee players on a full-time basis outside of the cap, with private health insurance among other newly introduced benefits to bring the women's competition in line with the men's.

That's really good news - especially with the women's soccer World Cup heading imminently to Oz.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Acting halfback

(f) A player of each team, to be known as the acting halfback, may stand immediately and 
directly behind their own player taking part 
in the play-the-ball and must remain in this 
position, until the play-the-ball movement is 
complete

Yet we have used the phrase "double marker" since the 1990s. As Dunbar says, a lot of the wording is completely outdated and ambiguous. 

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's really good news - especially with the women's soccer World Cup heading imminently to Oz.

QLD female state of origin players will also be paid up to $15,000 each this year. I think to get the max amount they’ll have to get through the players’ camp, make the final 19 and then play the match. It’s not all or nothing either, players will get some of the payment at each stage.

So it’s entirely possible that some female RL players may just make enough to survive on RL payments alone this year if they play for the QLD origin team, get a marquee player payment in the NRLW plus sponsorships. It’s not much money, but it’s all heading in the right direction.

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13 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Yet we have used the phrase "double marker" since the 1990s. As Dunbar says, a lot of the wording is completely outdated and ambiguous. 

Yep, it's the first time I have ever heard the term acting half used for the 2nd marker. 

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16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's really good news - especially with the women's soccer World Cup heading imminently to Oz.

The women`s soccer world cup will come, the women`s soccer world cup will go and if the NRLW can pay the players a half decent wage, the talented athletic girls will continue to play League and the soccer girls will continue to have to work all week, train nights and then play weekends for a pittance.

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The A League Women cannot come close to those ratings. The AFLW has been smashed as well. Super Rugby Women doesn’t even register.

Anyone can see how this should work out for rugby league with proper administration. 

It will become the main domestic sports competition for women in Australia in time.

"There has never been a Challenge Cup semifinal of 65,000 either individually or combined" - Damien

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yep, it's the first time I have ever heard the term acting half used for the 2nd marker. 

I thought I`d dealt with this up the page. Maybe you`ve given up reading my posts. Think I might as well give up entirely after this one.

What we now call the second marker was there to collect the ball should the marker successfully strike and heel it back, since the marker himself was not allowed to turn and pick it up. Same as the tackled player after playing the ball cannot touch it again until another player has done so.

In the past, it made perfect sense to describe this role as an acting half. Decades on, and the RFL haven`t yet got round to changing the terminology. Which says a lot about their attitude to their own rulebook.

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Lifted from League Unlimited forum.

 

“NRLW (Foxsports and Nine) Average 168,000
AFLW (Foxsports and 7Mate) Average 70,000
Broadcast: Offsiders 13 March 2022)”

86F2364C-4B29-4001-B26A-62FA662E644C.jpeg

Edited by Copa
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27 minutes ago, Copa said:

Lifted from League Unlimited forum.

 

“NRLW (Foxsports and Nine) Average 168,000
AFLW (Foxsports and 7Mate) Average 70,000
Broadcast: Offsiders 13 March 2022)”

86F2364C-4B29-4001-B26A-62FA662E644C.jpeg

Wow ! amazing figures, given that data released by Foxsports yesterday revealed a .77 ratio between STB `s and streaming I`d suggest those figures could be considerably higher once streaming is included. Confirms @unapologetic pedant observation that the first week of the NRLW attracted on average about 16 000 views on its` highlights reel as opposed to less than 1000 for the aflw., a damning statistic if there ever was one. 

BTW at the top of the post it mentions " OFFSIDERS " surely this can`t be the League hostile weekend sports show broadcast on the ABC. Funny enough though I have heard them criticising the aflw a couple of times I`ve tuned in, usually unheard of, but music to my ears.

Edited by The Rocket
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21 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Wow ! amazing figures, given that data released by Foxsports yesterday revealed a .77 ratio between STB `s and streaming I`d suggest those figures could be considerably higher once streaming is included. Confirms @unapologetic pedant observation that the first week of the NRLW attracted on average about 16 000 views on its` highlights reel as opposed to less than 1000 for the aflw., a damning statistic if there ever was one. 

BTW at the top of the post it mentions " OFFSIDERS " surely this can`t be the League hostile weekend sports show broadcast on the ABC. Funny enough though I have heard them criticising the aflw a couple of times I`ve tuned in, usually unheard of, but music to my ears.

They still tried to make excuses for the whacking AFLW got in the ratings. The panel was constituted by the usual AFL host (Underwood), Nicholson (AFL/cricket, Tasmanian), 1 rugby league person (Fatima Kdouh - always excellent) and a rugby union guy. The host particularly was keen to downplay it given her regular advocacy for AFLW.

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"There has never been a Challenge Cup semifinal of 65,000 either individually or combined" - Damien

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5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I thought I`d dealt with this up the page. Maybe you`ve given up reading my posts. Think I might as well give up entirely after this one.

What we now call the second marker was there to collect the ball should the marker successfully strike and heel it back, since the marker himself was not allowed to turn and pick it up. Same as the tackled player after playing the ball cannot touch it again until another player has done so.

In the past, it made perfect sense to describe this role as an acting half. Decades on, and the RFL haven`t yet got round to changing the terminology. Which says a lot about their attitude to their own rulebook.

 I read it in the rules before your post. It was the first time I'd heard it. 

There are conversations going on not involving you you know. 

But one point I will make, this was taken from the 2022 International laws, so not sure why you focus on the RFL. 

Edited by Dave T
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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

There are conversations going on not involving you you know. 

Fair enough, but I was clearly involved in this particular conversation.

 

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

But one point I will make, this was taken from the 2022 International laws, so not sure why you focus on the RFL. 

There`s a small repetition typo in (a). Apart from that, every rule you cited is word for word from the RFL rulebook. The NRL rulebook is different.

 

20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Do you actually enjoy the game?

This is often the reaction to analysis of Rugby League and its rulebook.

Why can`t the plebs accept it`s a simple game for simple people? Just have a pie and a pint and enjoy yourself.

Anyway, I am grateful. You`ve helped persuade me to throw in the towel.

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