Thurs 17th March : SL : Wigan Warriors v Castleford Tigers KO. 8:00pm SKY

[Tubby]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure what hierarchy you are working to. Everyone can have a view. 

But the view coming from players and coaches so far is that they don't want change, which suggests to me that they are not the right people to ask how we deliver the change required. 

The hierarchy I’m working to is simple. The opinion of professional  players is if more value than that of fans, with regard to the playing and officiating of the game for which they’re paid. I’m not talking about sponsors, TV executives, kit men, or the local constabulary. Players more than fans. 

[Tubby]

20 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, really. It absolutely makes their jobs easier. Hence the constant moaning - even before this season - about marginal penalties and refs not letting the game go.

Sports are a lot easier in general if you don't have to worry so much about the rules.

It makes their job easier when opposition players could get away with indiscriminate attacks without fear of punishment? Don’t talk rot. Is Burgess (for instance) more likely to attack or be attacked?  

[Tubby]

16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

From the players and coaches whose voices we hear.

Just cos they're shouting loudest doesn't make them representative of anything.

(They may be but it's not guaranteed).

No, just cause they play and coach the game, that’s what makes them representative. Specious arguments again and again. 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Tubby said:

The hierarchy I’m working to is simple. The opinion of professional  players is if more value than that of fans, with regard to the playing and officiating of the game for which they’re paid. I’m not talking about sponsors, TV executives, kit men, or the local constabulary. Players more than fans. 

But what if you do a survey of players and their opinions are really dumb? 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It doesn't mean those opinions will be useful. 

Opinions and ideas need to be judged on their own merits. 

[Tubby]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

But what if you do a survey of players and their opinions are really dumb? 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It doesn't mean those opinions will be useful. 

Opinions and ideas need to be judged on their own merits. 

Ok, I know what you’re getting at but I believe that RL players are as intelligent or not as any other sector of society. My point is merely that if I want a valuable opinion of the Exchange Rate Mechanism, I’ll ask an economist, if I want to know about tax I’ll speak to a corporate accountant. When it comes to the way RL is played and officiated, I trust its practitioners. It would be interesting to know what the refs think, but they’re in no position to to give any opinion other than to support their employers.

You disagree, that’s your prerogative. 

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Tubby said:

No, just cause they play and coach the game, that’s what makes them representative. Specious arguments again and again. 

I think you're misusing specious there.

And we have no idea if they're representative.

Again, unless you think it means something different to what it actually means.

[bobbruce]

2 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Ok, I know what you’re getting at but I believe that RL players are as intelligent or not as any other sector of society. My point is merely that if I want a valuable opinion of the Exchange Rate Mechanism, I’ll ask an economist, if I want to know about tax I’ll speak to a corporate accountant. When it comes to the way RL is played and officiated, I trust its practitioners. It would be interesting to know what the refs think, but they’re in no position to to give any opinion other than to support their employers.

You disagree, that’s your prerogative. 

Of course they are as intelligent or not as any other sector. I also wouldn’t just take as read anyone elses opinion without them being able to convince me they had a clue what they were on about. 

[Tubby]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I think you're misusing specious there.

And we have no idea if they're representative.

Again, unless you think it means something different to what it actually means.

I enjoy it when someone tries to be condescending. I know they have nothing. 

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Tubby said:

I enjoy it when someone tries to be condescending. I know they have nothing. 

How dare you.

I’m not trying to be condescending.

[Tubby]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Of course they are as intelligent or not as any other sector. I also wouldn’t just take as read anyone elses opinion without them being able to convince me they had a clue what they were on about. 

Fair enough. My point is merely that someone who coaches or plays a professional sport is going to know more about the way it is played than the average, non-playing member of the public. Of course some players will have more in-depth knowledge than others. But to suggest that professional players don’t have a more valid opinion about the way the sport is played than we as fans do seems a little conceited. 

[Tubby]

Just now, gingerjon said:

How dare you.

I’m not trying to be condescending.

In that case ,you may wish to re-read your previous message. 

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Ok, I know what you’re getting at but I believe that RL players are as intelligent or not as any other sector of society. My point is merely that if I want a valuable opinion of the Exchange Rate Mechanism, I’ll ask an economist, if I want to know about tax I’ll speak to a corporate accountant. When it comes to the way RL is played and officiated, I trust its practitioners. It would be interesting to know what the refs think, but they’re in no position to to give any opinion other than to support their employers.

You disagree, that’s your prerogative. 

As I've said, everyone can give an opinion and can be heard. But people can happily dismiss a view they give, as I did with Burgess, which started this whole discussion thread. 

I think a player is wrong to choose to go on Twitter and describe the sport as on its ######. 

[Tubby]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

As I've said, everyone can give an opinion and can be heard. But people can happily dismiss a view they give, as I did with Burgess, which started this whole discussion thread. 

I think a player is wrong to choose to go on Twitter and describe the sport as on its ######. 

I can see your point about a player not rubbishing the sport, but I’m not sure that’s what he did. He didn’t rubbish the sport, he complained about the way it’s currently being refereed. It’s a subtle but important difference. Either way. If players feel strongly enough to comment on social media (and I may be wrong, but these aren’t players who I’d usually expect to seek controversy), then I believe they should be heard. 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

 

If Mr. Netherton is still employed by Hull KR, that's a bizarre opinion to hold for someone who is employed by a solicitor.

I don’t think he’d be happy but Netherton is entitled to his say.  
 

Twitter is a cesspit sometimes though.  Imo players and ex players have should leave it alone.

[Dunbar]

45 minutes ago, Tubby said:

I can see your point about a player not rubbishing the sport, but I’m not sure that’s what he did. He didn’t rubbish the sport, he complained about the way it’s currently being refereed. It’s a subtle but important difference. Either way. If players feel strongly enough to comment on social media (and I may be wrong, but these aren’t players who I’d usually expect to seek controversy), then I believe they should be heard. 

On your first ppint, I think there is too small a difference to really matter, it is not a good look when the players slag off the sport they play.

Having said that. I do have some sympathy with the players if they are saying that they want to play the sport tough, I certainly did when I played, the tougher the game the more I enjoyed it.

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, Tubby said:

I can see your point about a player not rubbishing the sport, but I’m not sure that’s what he did. He didn’t rubbish the sport, he complained about the way it’s currently being refereed. It’s a subtle but important difference. Either way. If players feel strongly enough to comment on social media (and I may be wrong, but these aren’t players who I’d usually expect to seek controversy), then I believe they should be heard. 

Fair enough, however I disagree. That was my point about Him not posting anything positive about the game nor was it constructive. It was a standard moan and claim that the game is on its ass. 

You may agree with hia point, but we shouldn't pretend his posts are balanced or thoughtful. 

Im not a fan of players criticising the comp they are playing in. 

[Tubby]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Fair enough, however I disagree. That was my point about Him not posting anything positive about the game nor was it constructive. It was a standard moan and claim that the game is on its ass. 

You may agree with hia point, but we shouldn't pretend his posts are balanced or thoughtful. 

Im not a fan of players criticising the comp they are playing in. 

Fair enough, but my point is merely that as a player his opinion about the officiating  is more valid than ours as fans. 

[Tubby]

9 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

On your first ppint, I think there is too small a difference to really matter, it is not a good look when the players slag off the sport they play.

Having said that. I do have some sympathy with the players if they are saying that they want to play the sport tough, I certainly did when I played, the tougher the game the more I enjoyed it.

Me too.