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9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Nope, my talk of failure was in the other aspects of the game and on infrastructure, that the RFL didn´t target a few places to use that big pot of money they had to actually go into infrastructure and not just handed to clubs.

Still, having seen the figures from @RayCeethe sport has survived into the professional SL era but now we need to take the next commercial steps to grow. 

What big pot of money?.

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14 hours ago, Dave T said:

We shouldn't judge everyone by the Bulls failures regarding facilities.

In SL we have Wigan, Hudds, Hull, Saints, Wire, Salford all playing in brand new facilities built in the last two or three decades. We have also seen major improvements at grounds like Catalans, Leeds and Hull KR. The improvement in facilities since SL's inception has been one of the resounding successes of the sport.

There's also Toulouse's ground which is fairly modern.

Only leaves Wakey and Cas.

Catalans need to get their final stand finished too eventually.

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7 hours ago, Josef K said:

I wonder if Wakefield AFC will eventually move back to Wakey ?. 

Hopefully not.

This world was never meant for one as beautiful as me.
 
 
Wakefield Trinity RLFC
2012 - 2014 "The wasted years"

2013, 2014 & 2015 Official Magic Weekend "Whipping Boys"

2017 - The year the dream disappeared under Grix's left foot.

2018 - The FinniChezz Bromance 

2019 - The Return of the Prodigal Son

 

 

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9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Enough to waste on large amounts of central funding to clubs outside SL instead of saving for infrastructure.  

 

It wasn’t really that much money that went outside SL. It isn’t unusual either every top flight sport with a tv deal filter some money down to lower leagues.

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On 21/03/2022 at 17:55, meast said:

It's a community stadium not a football stadium and we part own it, not share and it's Belle VUE, and Fartown was better in the 80's than Belle VUE is now 😜 

4/10

Ah that predicted text, are you really sure Fartown was better than Belle VUE is now I beg to differ. As a matter of interest which bits do you own ?

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34 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

It wasn’t really that much money that went outside SL. It isn’t unusual either every top flight sport with a tv deal filter some money down to lower leagues.

It's in discussions like this where we go into self loathing mode and make out that funding RL clubs is a bad thing. 

RL clubs do a lot of development work for the sport and do a lot of good work in their communities. 

I'm not sure why people have such a downer on the existing game. There is a lot to be proud of, and that doesn't happen free of charge. 

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4 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

It was a lot of money, RFL used to get 10 million and if it had just put 2 million a year of that aside for the duration of the deal thats two stadiums it could have joint funded to improve the sport . Money spent on clubs with no permenant home or way to generate rev was wasted. 

It’s not down to the RFL to build stadiums, it’s down to the individual clubs (unless we were to build a Rugby League National Stadium that hosted all our Internationals and Finals) 

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14 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Enough to waste on large amounts of central funding to clubs outside SL instead of saving for infrastructure.  

 

Your God that is SL  seemingly  managed only a 2 year very thin TV deal when they cut loose...... Big Nigel for his many critics seems in retrospect to have negotiated the deal of the century all those years ago.

SL now forced by circumstance back into the RL family. They have given up their central commercial opportunities to an independent  joint company that hopefully will have the skills to commercially  exploit the game as a whole . 

The RFL share of profit will cater for needs of  Champ/ L1 members on agreed fixed incomes going forwards as well as running all that is required of  a top 5  NGB , including ensuring the Community game is both ring fenced and nourished.

RFL member clubs have always been entitled to a share of some sort but at least the RFL Board have managed over the years to introduce a 'carrot and stick ' approach by demanding criteria..... I'm sure that approach will continue in the Brave New World that the RFL Council endorsed yesterday.....

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14 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Enough to waste on large amounts of central funding to clubs outside SL instead of saving for infrastructure.  

 

And as for infrastructure , the RFL by one means or another have secured more than £19 million into the Community Game in the last 18 months. Clubhouses and decent playing fields and facilities  across the country.

. In some cases for the first time ever.......

Another round of applications for funding ( up to 10k ) opens on 4th April......

But sorry, semi pro clubs need to be sorting out their own facilities from the grants they get.

 

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5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

How does this change my point that the rfl wasted money on clubs who had no infrastructure?

Fact the RFL didnt make a proper investment in Wales is probably the biggest missed opportunity in the last decade. 

You do not seem to understand the nature of the RFL beast.

Once a club achieves membership status it acquires significant benefits. It gets for instance money from central resources regardless of what it does on or off the field. The RFL seek to mitigate that  potential  'waste ' by imposing criteria but even this year L1 will get at least  25K and Champ 75k+ largely regardless of their offer to their locality.....

So a club like for instance Hemel has a value which can be sold on and  ultimately end up with Cornwall.........

My point in short is that the RFL do not waste money but that they are constrained by a system that is in the last analysis  probably past its sell by date........

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8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

It is down to them  if they wanted to generate more commercially viable clubs or a proper international set up. Imaginé where crusaders and WRL  (and by extension RFL) could be if we had parked some money to get them a stadium and funded a Welsh academy.  

No we just wasted It on clubs that either groundshared with no plan to get back or are not viable without handouts.  

 

 

Imagine if the RFL had spent £44 million building a stadium in South Wales only for the owner to give the club up and someone based in Wrexham to take them over and move them there. Or if they’d spent the money building one in Salford only for Salford to decide they don’t want to pay rent on a decent stadium and would rather move to a cheap tiny stadium with no facilities (corporate). (I’ve used the cost of York’s new stadium for the £44m figure). Not only do the RFL not have that kind of money it’s too much risk to put on one club who may do either of the above. 

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9 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Who is talking about 44 million.  Yorks stadium did not cost anywhere near that. You are quoting the figure for the entire complex there which includes vastly more than the stadium. 

I know inflation is happening but imagine if you gave a realistic scenario to engage with. 

And then you use it to just have a pop at Salford.  Its why I mute you.  

Lets imaginé something realistic.  The RFL and WRL identify a target site in Wrexham or Cardiff  (you know, actual population centres) to go to the government to say we have 4-6 million to build a 6500 3g capacity stadium but we need assistance with land and planning. 

Club wouldnt be a private thing to move at will.  If your scenario is imagine we do something as half arsed as possible then you have already determined the result. 

£4-6 million for a new stadium,who’s constructing it Bob the Builder on his weekends off.

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Of all the things that the sport could invest in, why is a stadium and academy in South Wales deemed the most valuable? 

The RFL spending millions and millions building even a modest ground in South Wales seems just a bizarre idea that wouldn't be anywhere near a list of top 50 things to crack on with. 

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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Dear Wakefield.

Ignore the knockers, just get on with it, make the best of the situation you are in, resume rebuilding the team and the club.

Yours etc. 

I really hope they do just get on with it and something happens other than just releasing plans. I thought they were about to start building 20+ years ago, so for me I will only believe the latest plans once shovels actually hit the ground and building work has begun. 

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48 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Who is talking about 44 million.  Yorks stadium did not cost anywhere near that. You are quoting the figure for the entire complex there which includes vastly more than the stadium. 

I know inflation is happening but imagine if you gave a realistic scenario to engage with. 

And then you use it to just have a pop at Salford.  Its why I mute you.  

Lets imaginé something realistic.  The RFL and WRL identify a target site in Wrexham or Cardiff  (you know, actual population centres) to go to the government to say we have 4-6 million to build a 6500 3g capacity stadium but we need assistance with land and planning. 

Club wouldnt be a private thing to move at will.  If your scenario is imagine we do something as half arsed as possible then you have already determined the result. 

£4-£6 million? The new North and South stands at Headingley cost £30 million. Granted the North stand isn’t a typical stand and a complex build but the Southstand alone cost £10 million. £4 million won’t build much of a stadium, it will buy an empty plot of land (something you need before building a stadium can begin) and that’s about it. Plus the RFL don’t have millions spare sitting at round to build stadiums, you are talking pipe dream nonsense. 

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32 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I really hope they do just get on with it and something happens other than just releasing plans. I thought they were about to start building 20+ years ago, so for me I will only believe the latest plans once shovels actually hit the ground and building work has begun. 

As I've stated before, this iteration is completely different to anything that has been attempted before.

It's 3 years since the club gained the freehold of the stadium and surrounding land and the decision was made to redevelop the BV site rather than continually chase the pipe dream of having a brand new purpose-built stadium provided. 

Previously, BV was not a option as there was no funding for such a project and the minimum standards were higher (12k with 5k seated?). 10k with 2.5k seated is now feasible, especially if done in stages.

This development is the first to be taken on by the club itself, as others were planned and designed by 3rd parties. 

For the first time ever in 40/50 years, promised funding has materialised. The club itself is in control. Although the plans are more modest, they are also realistic. 

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40 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Or wrexham.  Because the only serious commercial growth for the game is in internationals and if the RFL want this sport to survive Or be funded into the future they are going to have to take the lead on facilitating that . 

Therefore putting the infrastructure in place to have a welsh club compete at a decent level and genarate a player pool with pathway to professional game is vital for that. 

If growing international rugby league on their own doorstep to fund their future isnt an rfl priority Or in 'the top 50 ' I'd love to know what people think it should be. 

But your plan for international growth is building a cheap stadium in Wrexham? 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But your plan for international growth is building a cheap stadium in Wrexham? 

Little stadiums are in vogue.

Wire would have looked packed last week in an 8k stadium. I suggest bulldozing one of the stands and bringing Snookers back.

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4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Little stadiums are in vogue.

Wire would have looked packed last week in an 8k stadium. I suggest bulldozing one of the stands and bringing Snookers back.

Now we're talking!

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

If growing international rugby league on their own doorstep to fund their future isnt an rfl priority Or in 'the top 50 ' I'd love to know what people think it should be. 

Growing the game in Wales isn't an RFL priority because the RFL now has no control over the game in Wales.

That would be the WRL.

It's really up to them what funds they chase and how they spend them.

The RFL's only role, and it is one they're failing in, should be in having England teams ready and willing to play Wales.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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9 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

It´s how all the Welsh regions in RU exist and it works. 

Does it?

Because, the WRU lurches from crisis to crisis, the international team is no longer selling out even for Six Nations matches, and the regions play matches on a small TV channels to pretty low attendances.

Meanwhile, the regions that the 'regions' are meant to be sustaining continue to lose development and investment.

You absolutely love to see it.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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