Is the game actually poorer now than it was say 40-50 years ago….and even at top level?

[Robthegasman]

Firstly I don’t have the facts and figures in front of me right now.

But if we look back over the last 40-50 years ago many clubs in either of the then 2 divisions actually owned their own stadiums,clubs like Wigan,Salford,Oldham,Halifax,Swinton and indeed others.

And as time has moved on,in a supposed era of more money in the game at top level at least,many clubs no longer own their own stadiums and are forced to rent stadiums from other sports(ie football)giving them revenue yet perhaps not allowed or able to find lines of revenue(ie bar and food) and perimeter advertising.

And we see say Super League players paid pretty well in the main and some of the Championship players not badly paid…yet it seems to me that the game is actually a lot poorer now because of what I stated.

Anyone else feel the same way or similar?

[Chris22]

I'm not sure. In some ways, the sport is in a far better state. We have a professional league, national coverage across two FTA broadcasters and two satellite broadcasters. The stadiums are mainly modern and crowds are higher than some points over the last 50 years (although lower than others).

In others, a lot of traditional clubs have reduced to shadows of their former selves. Take Oldham for one. Playing against Australia in the 1980's and now a third tier side playing out of a field. Swinton not playing in the town. We are losing generations of fans. Bradford was an RL hotbed but years of mismanagement has turned fans away from us.

[meast]

Poorer in what way?

On the field? It's a completely different game now.

Off the field? Some clubs have improved their lot from 1982, others haven't.

Personally, and I started watching Huddersfield around 1987/88, the game was a better game on the field during the 90's, 00's and has now become almost a game of British bulldogs for robots.

The world has changed now, the notion of run down rugby grounds in pit towns run by a committee of old ex miners only opened once a week and hardly maintained in 100 years have gone, whether that's for the better is merely opinion.

[Wakefield Ram]

3 hours ago, meast said:

Poorer in what way?

On the field? It's a completely different game now.

Off the field? Some clubs have improved their lot from 1982, others haven't.

Personally, and I started watching Huddersfield around 1987/88, the game was a better game on the field during the 90's, 00's and has now become almost a game of British bulldogs for robots.

The world has changed now, the notion of run down rugby grounds in pit towns run by a committee of old ex miners only opened once a week and hardly maintained in 100 years have gone, whether that's for the better is merely opinion.

British bulldog for robots, a good description. I watch games from 80s and 90s and two things are noticeable.

The PTB was a lot quicker and there was a lot more rugby played as 5m rule meant you had to move the ball to score. 

Yes, there were more errors as a result, but it added to the momentum swings.

One of the main features of the game now is how long you can delay the opponents by lying on in the tackle. And we have this ludicrous situation where the referees are now responsible for telling the players when to get off the tackler.

Quicker play the balls would make the game faster, but no one - coaches, players or administrators - seem to want that.

[ELBOWSEYE]

3 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

British bulldog for robots, a good description. I watch games from 80s and 90s and two things are noticeable.

The PTB was a lot quicker and there was a lot more rugby played as 5m rule meant you had to move the ball to score. 

Yes, there were more errors as a result, but it added to the momentum swings.

One of the main features of the game now is how long you can delay the opponents by lying on in the tackle. And we have this ludicrous situation where the referees are now responsible for telling the players when to get off the tackler.

Quicker play the balls would make the game faster, but no one - coaches, players or administrators - seem to want that.

There are loads of different attributes between previous decades and now. When I started playing open age in the late 70s, you had 2 subs and they were used once, competitive scrums and boggy pitches, that alone would tire players so defensive lapses would open opportunities for nimble backs to take advantage. Pro level was semi pro at best so limited time was spent on strength and conditioning and skills. People had less money but little else to spend it on, far more opportunities these days on what people use their leisure time for. Comparisons are interesting but really not an ideal way of measuring pros and cons. 

[Wakefield Ram]

Not suggesting going back to 70s and 80s, just reducing the time players are allowed to deliberately slow the game down and/or reducing the 10m to encourage more creative play and less 1 man drives. 

[ivans82]

Definitely agree play the balls were quicker in the 90`s , but also noticeable is there were few if any 3/4 men in the tackle situations , so no prolonged wrestles so,not as many players to clear the ruck . the modern day coach seems to favour slowing the game down and spoiling , as opposed to playing with more flair . 

[Snowys Backside]

Today, game is quicker, more tv coverage. 
 

cons - today the attendances are sparse at lower level and famous clubs are struggling. Fat cats getting fatter and greed getting greedier, more tv coverage !
 

I loved the game in the 80s. A local Derby guaranteed 13k attendances at Hilton Park irrespective. Now we are lucky to fill 2 sides of a stadium. 

I want famous teams to get back to way they were but we are held back in my opinion by the current administration who want it for themselves. Spend money on Grass roots, Cumbria and get famous clubs firmly back on their feet, especially the ones who have been shafted. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Snowys Backside said:

Today, game is quicker, more tv coverage. 
 

cons - today the attendances are sparse at lower level and famous clubs are struggling. Fat cats getting fatter and greed getting greedier, more tv coverage !
 

I loved the game in the 80s. A local Derby guaranteed 13k attendances at Hilton Park irrespective. Now we are lucky to fill 2 sides of a stadium. 

 

13k at Hilton park can't remember one in my lifetime and I grew up in Leigh, possible couple of 10k games, even when John Woods and the successful Murphy coached side of the 80/81/82 seasons never hit those levels. 

[Niels]

On 22/03/2022 at 11:11, Wakefield Ram said:

British bulldog for robots, a good description. I watch games from 80s and 90s and two things are noticeable.

The PTB was a lot quicker and there was a lot more rugby played as 5m rule meant you had to move the ball to score. 

Yes, there were more errors as a result, but it added to the momentum swings.

One of the main features of the game now is how long you can delay the opponents by lying on in the tackle. And we have this ludicrous situation where the referees are now responsible for telling the players when to get off the tackler.

Quicker play the balls would make the game faster, but no one - coaches, players or administrators - seem to want that.

I think the most entertaining GB side ever was the period  featuring Connolly, Lydon, Hanley, Robinson, Offiah et al. 

The pace and back play was amazing. 

[Bring back the Boyd]

I’m not sure you have to go back that far. The 80’s and 90’s were definitely my favourite era but looking at the game in 2010 and the present day Wire team would not live with the Tony Smith team of that year. Another poster has remarked about robots etc and I totally agree. I’ve posted before about all teams following a set game plan and only cutting loose when the games lost. It’s not all doom and gloom though, with the likes of Field, Connor, Ashton and many others who would have lit up the game whatever the era, I think the slow play the balls and lying on etc is strangling the game we love. Coaches and the powers that be need to realise quickly that excitement puts bums on seats and that not everything from bygone times needed to be corrected 

[northamptoncougar]

I don’t agree that lots of SL players are paid well. Many of the starting 17 are on 35k or less. A pittance for a professional sportsperson. 

[Snowys Backside]

4 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

13k at Hilton park can't remember one in my lifetime and I grew up in Leigh, possible couple of 10k games, even when John Woods and the successful Murphy coached side of the 80/81/82 seasons never hit those levels. 

Do you remember this game ?  Got robbed in the Semi of the Challenge Cup that season and Won at Wilderspool to stay up on Easter Monday.  Hot Sunny day and more like 15k on to watch a wonderful Wigan side take us to the sword. Ground was packed at 1-30pm.

 

[Pigeon Lofter]

10 hours ago, ivans82 said:

Definitely agree play the balls were quicker in the 90`s , but also noticeable is there were few if any 3/4 men in the tackle situations , so no prolonged wrestles so,not as many players to clear the ruck . the modern day coach seems to favour slowing the game down and spoiling , as opposed to playing with more flair . 

A tackle was made when the ball carrier was either floored or all forward progress was stopped, often one-on-one. A fast PTB ensued, or a quickly convened and executed scrum formed and play resumed in seconds.

Today, the "held" call is when three defenders have swarmed a ball carrying attacker and have him totally wrapped up, and then a fourth comes flying in at speed and grabs any exposed limb and drives everyone to the ground in a monstrous heap of bodies. That's a "tackle" apparently. The defenders then grind the restrained attacker into the soil before they eventually all pull clear and retreat. The attacker wonders what kind of sport this is when four men push, pull and twist you and you can't propel them away, the referee won't call "held" as there's more beating up to do even though any forward progress has been impossible already, and your club is running out of players half way through a season because they are injured trying to survive these incredible brawls which now masquerade as "tackles". It wasn't always like this.

[Snowys Backside]

10 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

A tackle was made when the ball carrier was either floored or all forward progress was stopped, often one-on-one. A fast PTB ensued, or a quickly convened and executed scrum formed and play resumed in seconds.

Today, the "held" call is when three defenders have swarmed a ball carrying attacker and have him totally wrapped up, and then a fourth comes flying in at speed and grabs any exposed limb and drives everyone to the ground in a monstrous heap of bodies. That's a "tackle" apparently. The defenders then grind the restrained attacker into the soil before they eventually all pull clear and retreat. The attacker wonders what kind of sport this is when four men push, pull and twist you and you can't propel them away, the referee won't call "held" as there's more beating up to do even though any forward progress has been impossible already, and your club is running out of players half way through a season because they are injured trying to survive these incredible brawls which now masquerade as "tackles". It wasn't always like this.

The root cause of all this is the 10 yard rule really. When it was only 5 yards, the play the ball was far quicker and more one out rugby wasn't apparent as there was little to gain. I remember 'deep lines' surpassing nearly half way from the try line to prevent defending sides to getting to the opposition and if anything it was more free flowing as sides were rarely pulled for offside. Leeds for instance play American Football half the time, as they are the masters of the 'backward/forward pass'. They couldnt do this in the 70's and 80's.

As you state, it more of a wrestling / judo match now once a player is on the floor so everyone can make the 10.

Bring back the 5 !!  LOL!

[ELBOWSEYE]

6 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Do you remember this game ?  Got robbed in the Semi of the Challenge Cup that season and Won at Wilderspool to stay up on Easter Monday.  Hot Sunny day and more like 15k on to watch a wonderful Wigan side take us to the sword. Ground was packed at 1-30pm.

 

One game that did not reach 13k,but it was the comment that it was guaranteed. It like Warrington saying local Derby with Widnes guarantees 15k, we had it once and only a couple of times have we filled out the ground. Not calling leigh fans support just the wording. 

[bobbruce]

9 hours ago, Niels said:

I think the most entertaining GB side ever was the period  featuring Connolly, Lydon, Hanley, Robinson, Offiah et al. 

The pace and back play was amazing. 

This what people do looking back they merge eras and always imagine players in their pomp. Pretty certain Lydon and Robinson never played together for GB and if Hanley and Robinson did it would’ve been for one series only and Hanley would’ve been a loose forward. 

[Niels]

2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

This what people do looking back they merge eras and always imagine players in their pomp. Pretty certain Lydon and Robinson never played together for GB and if Hanley and Robinson did it would’ve been for one series only and Hanley would’ve been a loose forward. 

I did deliberately use the word "period" as it means "to designate an extent of time of any length."

An era is usually divided into periods. 

For example historically  the Tudor period ran from 1485 to 1603. 

[TheFlash]

20 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

A tackle was made when the ball carrier was either floored or all forward progress was stopped, often one-on-one. A fast PTB ensued, or a quickly convened and executed scrum formed and play resumed in seconds.

Today, the "held" call is when three defenders have swarmed a ball carrying attacker and have him totally wrapped up, and then a fourth comes flying in at speed and grabs any exposed limb and drives everyone to the ground in a monstrous heap of bodies. That's a "tackle" apparently. The defenders then grind the restrained attacker into the soil before they eventually all pull clear and retreat. The attacker wonders what kind of sport this is when four men push, pull and twist you and you can't propel them away, the referee won't call "held" as there's more beating up to do even though any forward progress has been impossible already, and your club is running out of players half way through a season because they are injured trying to survive these incredible brawls which now masquerade as "tackles". It wasn't always like this.

I started watching and playing the game in the late 80s/early 90s. There were already 3 man gang tackles in the game then.

That's 30 years ago. 

I have no idea what era you are referring to, but it sounds like it was a very long time ago indeed.

[Pie tries]

Stadiums during the 80s were a joke. At least west of the great divide steps have been taken to rectify this…

[Wigan Riversider]

On 24/03/2022 at 00:24, Snowys Backside said:

Do you remember this game ?  Got robbed in the Semi of the Challenge Cup that season and Won at Wilderspool to stay up on Easter Monday.  Hot Sunny day and more like 15k on to watch a wonderful Wigan side take us to the sword. Ground was packed at 1-30pm.

 

Think I went.

A nostalgic look at the period possibly, but didn't our game have more national exposure?

[Wakefield Ram]

On 23/03/2022 at 13:50, ivans82 said:

Definitely agree play the balls were quicker in the 90`s , but also noticeable is there were few if any 3/4 men in the tackle situations , so no prolonged wrestles so,not as many players to clear the ruck . the modern day coach seems to favour slowing the game down and spoiling , as opposed to playing with more flair . 

And who thinks that makes the game better to watch?

[yipyee]

On 23/03/2022 at 18:49, Snowys Backside said:

Today, game is quicker, more tv coverage. 
 

cons - today the attendances are sparse at lower level and famous clubs are struggling. Fat cats getting fatter and greed getting greedier, more tv coverage !
 

I loved the game in the 80s. A local Derby guaranteed 13k attendances at Hilton Park irrespective. Now we are lucky to fill 2 sides of a stadium. 

I want famous teams to get back to way they were but we are held back in my opinion by the current administration who want it for themselves. Spend money on Grass roots, Cumbria and get famous clubs firmly back on their feet, especially the ones who have been shafted. 

What money does grass roots need? There are a lot of outlets already for the grass roots game, sports England are very helpful to good causes. 

In reality the administrators poor decision making has cut off some of these funding streams but they are still there!

With Cumbria, there has been talk of ground shares, the administraters have tried to implement an academy and a cumbria side was in SL in the inception of the league  ut for some reason the professional era doesn't seem to work.

Barrow are looking like they are getting the building blocks in place but can they get a 10k average attendance and is there enough sponsorship opportunities for them? They certainly have the playing pool for a too academy