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The 1895 Cup. Respect it or bin it.


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I can see this competition being another half-baked RL idea unless someone gets to grips with it. 5 teams are basically competing for it. What's the point. It should be a celebration of lower league Rugby League. Have the bottom two divisions  teams in, a small sprinkling of amateur clubs and maybe even some invitational teams. Stories that can capture the imagination, sell papers, hitting social media. Siddal to play Featherstone in 1895 at Wembley. Maybe an invitational team of seniors to roll back the years. An overseas touring team. Anything to capture the imagination.

 

RFL: Ok just the 5 this year boys.

Edited by Mumby Magic

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And with the Championship sides playing 26 weekly round games, the Challenge Cup and this proposal of yours, where do you expect them to place it in the calendar? Midweek games? Can we ask part-time players to play midweek games in such a physically demanding sport as Rugby League? 

Unless there’s going to be a significant reduction in games played by Championship clubs, which is unlikely, I don’t see how we accommodate another tournament in its entirety. 

There’s an argument that the five Championship sides have had to win a couple of games to get to this point and I do get that side of things. 

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Bin it. I also dont like the fact some in the game try and use it as a way of strengthening franchising "Well as long as they have something to play for..." 

It only works with franchising, then getting to Wembley is the priority but it is not for me.

I suspect it will stay till at least the next tv deal. 

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The whole premise of the 1895 just seemed to be another unimaginative approach to try and arrest the falling attendances at the CC Final. I think that the RFL hoped that if they had a reason for fans of clubs like Bradford, Featherstone or Leigh to go to Wembley, they wouldn't have to come up with more creative ideas to make the CC, and the CC Final, an event that people are clamouring to see. 

This is the entire problem with the CC for me. Any discussion around how we get fans to attend seems to revolve around double headers (see the 1895 / semi-finals day), cheaper tickets and bundling it into season tickets, rather than making it something people actually want to spend money on. At this point, it seems like the only reason we're playing the CC is because "it's what we've always done". 

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I'd have more time for this thread if it had been started back in November when the format for the competition was announced. 

Basically it's a rehash of the moaning we've seen about the venue of the last few Championship GFs a couple of weeks before they were due to take place.... 

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A few problems around Challenge Cup we seem to have identified.  One: Its more loop fixtures 

Two : London now crazy expensive. 

Three: Newcastle has replaced it as the cheap day out. 

We can fix some of those things.  We can get rid of loops by going to 14 team SL.  

We need to get a proper international in the summer that can sell like magic to attract a different audience and turn Challenge Cup back into the biggest day in the club calander. 

Clubs and RFL need to make more of it.  For instance, one little thing I'd like to see every team that doesnt make the Challenge Cup final get there players in the stadium and spread them out and do some pre match meet and greets with fans. 

1895 first season was bad (after main event) then covid,  then restrictions.  If we cant sell out this brand new stadium with hopefully some clubs who havent been to a CC final in ages we need to worry. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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2 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

I can see this competition being another half-baked RL idea unless someone gets to grips with it. 5 teams are basically competing for it.

Twenty odd teams have been competing for it over the last two months.

Open your eyes.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I'd have more time for this thread if it had been started back in November when the format for the competition was announced. 

 

I'd have more time for this thread if the opening post didn't simply rehash the misinformation about there being "5 teams competing for it" which was soundly debunked in the existing 1895 Cup thread yesterday.

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9 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Obviously it's done deal for 2022

The question is whether it can be done better in 2023 or is just better to bin it?

Having all 12 Superleague clubs in the cup would improve it. Then you'd have four clubs to play off for the 1895 Cup instead of this unwieldy five.

Yes - it's all Toulouse's fault.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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2 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

 Have the bottom two divisions  teams in, a small sprinkling of amateur clubs and maybe even some invitational teams. Stories that can capture the imagination, sell papers, hitting social media. Siddal to play Featherstone in 1895 at Wembley.

 

At the risk of repeating what has already been pointed out on the other thread: it was perfectly possible for Siddall to reach the final, but they were knocked out of the Challenge Cup (and thus the 1895 Cup) by Hunslet last month. If you did run the 1895 Cup as a standalone competiton with, say, 5 rounds, the amateur clubs are no more likely to get a sniff of the final than Championship clubs are in the Challenge Cup anyway.

The current 1895 Cup format is an excellent method of enabling lower league clubs to have a route to Wembley without forcing too many more fixtures into what is an already overcrowded schedule (for Championship clubs anyway).

I think the RFL deserve a lot of credit for coming up with this solution to what was a tricky problem.

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20 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I'd have more time for this thread if the opening post didn't simply rehash the misinformation about there being "5 teams competing for it" which was soundly debunked in the existing 1895 Cup thread yesterday.

It'd be nice if the OP took his own advice and respected the competition.

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2 hours ago, Jughead said:

And with the Championship sides playing 26 weekly round games, the Challenge Cup and this proposal of yours, where do you expect them to place it in the calendar? Midweek games? Can we ask part-time players to play midweek games in such a physically demanding sport as Rugby League? 

Unless there’s going to be a significant reduction in games played by Championship clubs, which is unlikely, I don’t see how we accommodate another tournament in its entirety. 

There’s an argument that the five Championship sides have had to win a couple of games to get to this point and I do get that side of things. 

It was a longer concept before. Plus don't league one sides play less. Plus I said we can bin it 

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The problem is there just isn’t time in the calendar to run 2 stand alone cup competition’s so unless you have the cc final at the back end of the season it will be a struggle. The interesting thing is over the last 2 years there are 8 different teams into the playoffs/semifinal stage so does that not show anyone can get there?

Edited by Cardypaul
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12 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

It was a longer concept before. Plus don't league one sides play less. Plus I said we can bin it 

And that led to a lot of disdain through midweek games. 

League One teams play fewer games yes but Championship teams, those most likely to appear in finals, play significantly more. 

I think there’s a need for a lower league cup. The Northern Rail Cup provided many decent finals and I’m sure decent memories for those involved, I do wonder how we would incorporate such a tournament when one of the two lower leagues plays 30% more games than the other and we have them competing in the Challenge Cup. 

The format in its current form doesn’t look ideal but it’s better than no tournament or a tournament dogged by midweek games and walkovers. 

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21 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

It was a longer concept before. Plus don't league one sides play less. Plus I said we can bin it 

Well, if you give the clubs permission to bin it, that's a different matter.😂 I'm sure they'll rush to take your advice.

Those 2019 midweek games didn't work, did they? And that was when they were in June. They'll be even less popular in February.

It's fine as it is.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Is there not a way for Championship clubs to play fewer regular season games, get the season finished earlier to aide the promoted side and to still allow a longer format competition to take place? 

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BIN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or open it up only to all Championship and 1st division sides and bin the Challenge Cup for the same two divisions. The CC is only for the top sooperdooperleeg sides anyway.

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2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Is there not a way for Championship clubs to play fewer regular season games, get the season finished earlier to aide the promoted side and to still allow a longer format competition to take place? 

Go on giz a clue as to how without making the competition (more) unbalanced (than it is already with the Bash) 

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14 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Is there not a way for Championship clubs to play fewer regular season games, get the season finished earlier to aide the promoted side and to still allow a longer format competition to take place? 

The season's too long as it is. And clubs want 13 guaranteed home league games, apparently.

It's your classic quart and pint pot. Even before you come along with your extra half pint.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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13 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Go on giz a clue as to how without making the competition (more) unbalanced (than it is already with the Bash) 

That’s the thing, the only way to do so would be to unbalance the fixture list by removing home and away fixtures as we know them but still getting to 13 guaranteed home games is quite the task. 

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52 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Exactly my point. Embrace or bin it.

Seriously, it's a great day out.

Pity you lost again.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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