Beaumont's Thoughts on Toronto and France

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think this is the strawman Mr Beaumont thinks he is fighting here with his comments.

Its deeply worrying that he doesn't see the problem for his own club by making these arguments.

I think his problems are exactly as Toulouse or any other Championship club face in being promoted, that is how to stay there, when does a club invest enough to make it feasible, they can't speculate on a team capable before they actually get promotion.

Both Leigh and Fev which of either of those clubs get promoted both will have to strengthen their squads to give them a fighting chance of staying there and then they have the problem of which player's are available and a short time scale.

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Well it took 4 pages for that old chestnut to rear its head,we’ll done.

Obviously in your eyes too Dav, Scubby suggested that without the French teams Sky's offer goes down the drain, what a load of bolux that is, it will still go down if French clubs are in the UK League or not, the American owners of Sky will be investing in other sports.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I think his problems are exactly as Toulouse or any other Championship club face in being promoted, that is how to stay there, when does a club invest enough to make it feasible, they can't speculate on a team capable before they actually get promotion.

Both Leigh and Fev which of either of those clubs get promoted both will have to strengthen their squads to give them a fighting chance of staying there and then they have the problem of which player's are available and a short time scale.

Its not that Harry, its the reductive argument of "what do they offer?"

That, in my opinion, is a foolish argument for the chairman of Leigh Centurions to make, for the sake of Leigh Centurions if nothing else.

[Dunbar]

47 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If I may answer that Ray, no not whatsoever, they can't even help their local community clubs who produce the player's they will need in years to come,

This website shows the junior camps that the Wigan Warriors Community Foundation are running for junior players

https://campscui.active.com/orgs/WiganWarriors?orglink=camps-registration#/selectSessions/3139641

As well as running sessions at Robin Park, there are also sessions at Golborne Parkside, Orrell St James' and Wigan St Pats.

[Toby Chopra]

20 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Don’t Catalans pay for their home games production costs,which allows Sky to broadcast Saturday games ?

If they are, then that's not a particularly good sign either. 

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The Wigan Warriors Community Foundation (the Wigan Warriors official charity) deliver a wide range of programmes including Rugby League coaching sessions through to programmes that improve health, wellbeing and improving the career prospects of young people and adults

They deliver programmes to over 10,000 people a year and you can see on the website today all of the junior camps they will be running over the Easter holidays.  It is disingenuous to suggest that Super League clubs so nothing to develop the sport and support the community. 

Honest question Dunbar, why is the game floundering at community level?

I know Wigan are doing a lot but it could be reactionary, look at how many junior clubs are no more in Wigan compared to only a few years ago, the participation levels have dropped alarmingly For to long 'Collectively' the professional game has left the amatuer side of the sport to it's own devices, each SL club in my opinion should be told to set aside a figure of say £150K from their central funding locally to keep the game going. 

[Davo5]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Obviously in your eyes too Dav, Scubby suggested that without the French teams Sky's offer goes down the drain, what a load of bolux that is, it will still go down if French clubs are in the UK League or not, the American owners of Sky will be investing in other sports.

Obviously in my eyes ? 
It’s only rolled out by posters who hanker for a Northern M62 only comp.

Im sure Sky see no value in all those free games they’ve broadcast at Catalans expense.

[Harry Stottle]

Can anyone tell me, is there a substantual enough audience in France to pay subscription costs to any TV company to invest in and get a return to broadcast  Rugby League in France?

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Honest question Dunbar, why is the game floundering at community level?

I know Wigan are doing a lot but it could be reactionary, look at how many junior clubs are no more in Wigan compared to only a few years ago, the participation levels have dropped alarmingly For to long 'Collectively' the professional game has left the amatuer side of the sport to it's own devices, each SL club in my opinion should be told to set aside a figure of say £150K from their central funding locally to keep the game going. 

BARLA have a large war chest sitting doing nothing in their bunker in deepest Yorkshire which could go a long way to help the community game,I’d have thought the likes of Wigan spend more than £150k on community work.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Obviously in my eyes ? 
It’s only rolled out by posters who hanker for a Northern M62 only comp.

Im sure Sky see no value in all those free games they’ve broadcast at Catalans expense.

Yes and they are good to watch, but as you say they are freebies for Sky, I doubt that Sky will ever be financing them, simply because there is no return for doing so, is that so hard to understand?

So again it matters nothing to Sky if there are no French clubs, so how many RL followers over here would you expect who subscribe to Sky would stop their subscriptions if there were no French clubs? 

[RigbyLuger]

I'd actually like to hear Beaumont actually debated on his views, rather than just accepting those answers. Would be an interesting listen perhaps.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Can anyone tell me, is there a substantual enough audience in France to pay subscription costs to any TV company to invest in and get a return to broadcast  Rugby League in France?

Probably, yes. But probably no TV company wanting anything at the rate of broadcasting 1 team every two weeks when they are at home and are at risk of relegation every year meaning they don't want a long term commitment to Super League.

[Davo5]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes and they are good to watch, but as you say they are freebies for Sky, I doubt that Sky will ever be financing them, simply because there is no return for doing so, is that so hard to understand?

So again it matters nothing to Sky if there are no French clubs, so how many RL followers over here would you expect who subscribe to Sky would stop their subscriptions if there were no French clubs? 

Sky are getting games for free so of course they value their inclusion,is that really hard to understand ?

I have no idea,same as you,but I’d be one less.

[Moove]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Honest question Dunbar, why is the game floundering at community level?

I know Wigan are doing a lot but it could be reactionary, look at how many junior clubs are no more in Wigan compared to only a few years ago, the participation levels have dropped alarmingly For to long 'Collectively' the professional game has left the amatuer side of the sport to it's own devices, each SL club in my opinion should be told to set aside a figure of say £150K from their central funding locally to keep the game going. 

Aside from Davo's point that clubs are likely already spending more than that, SL also already do set aside a portion of their income on top of this. It gets paid to the RFL to cover things like cost of officials and for them to invest in things like the community game.

Whether or not it's a sufficient amount and/or is used as wisely as it could be is probably a separate conversation.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

I appreciate your reply. My perception from 18,000 kms away is that clubs outside SL do a great job but SL clubs themselves not so much. I saw them as scouting talent developed elsewhere. 

It's an interesting observation, and with RL fans over her, it doesn't surprise me that you would come to that conclusion. 

RL fans are very negative here, and lower division fans can be  cynical about SL, so top flight clubs get a lot of unfair criticism. Particularly when you add in an unfriendly media environment. 

[JohnM]

42 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Honest question Dunbar, why is the game floundering at community level?

I know Wigan are doing a lot but it could be reactionary, look at how many junior clubs are no more in Wigan compared to only a few years ago, the participation levels have dropped alarmingly For to long 'Collectively' the professional game has left the amatuer side of the sport to it's own devices, each SL club in my opinion should be told to set aside a figure of say £150K from their central funding locally to keep the game going. 

It is incorrect to say that SL Clubs are not doing enough in the community.

Here's the Wakefield Foundation for example. Wakefield Trinity Community Foundation - Home (wakefieldtrinityfoundation.co.uk)

I'm not going to post the contribution of every SL Club only to be met with  " Yes, but what has Wigan done on Thursday 31st March at 10 am  for the two lads that live at 999 Letsbe Avenue, Smalltown."

The reasons why participation is down are, as you well know, are many and varied.  That maybe not what you want to hear in your quest to demonise SL clubs, of course, but its true all the same, and nothing to do with what SL clubs do or do not do.

[Dunbar]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Honest question Dunbar, why is the game floundering at community level?

What is happening to Rugby League at Community level is reflective of the wider trend in team sports participation.

From 2016 to today, participation in Rugby League among adults has fallen by 50% but similarly participation in Cricket has fallen by 50%, Football by 55%, Hockey by 56% and Rugby Union by 63%.

At the same time, individual activities like cycling and walking are on the increase.  It is simply reflective of a change in behaviors across the board.

Data can be found at the sport England Active lives survey site https://www.sportengland.org/know-your-audience/data/active-lives/active-lives-data-tables and participation is defined as adults (aged 16+) who have taken part in sport and physical activity at least twice in the last 28 days.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

I'd actually like to hear Beaumont actually debated on his views, rather than just accepting those answers. Would be an interesting listen perhaps.

When I’ve seen him on some TV he comes across ok.  It’s the Twitter outbursts that are usually his undoing.  Most of those are political comments though.

We could counter DB with ‘what do Leigh offer’?  I tried to get on their website to see but can’t access it.

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Probably, yes. But probably no TV company wanting anything at the rate of broadcasting 1 team every two weeks when they are at home and are at risk of relegation every year meaning they don't want a long term commitment to Super League.

So no then, what is your solution to the conundrum?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

So no then, what is your solution to the conundrum?

That's incorrect. Yes there is an audience, no there isn't a broadcaster.

You know my solution, make Super League European as it was supposed to be, and keep the Championship and League 1 for the England/UK.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That's incorrect. Yes there is an audience, no there isn't a broadcaster.

You know my solution, make Super League European as it was supposed to be, and keep the Championship and League 1 for the England/UK.

Define European please, other than having two French teams participating in it, and c'mon Tommy you are astute enough to know that the SLE branding was just a name and not an intension.

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Define European please, other than having two French teams participating in it, and c'mon Tommy you are astute enough to know that the SLE branding was just a name and not an intension.

What else would you propose calling a competition across England, France and Wales?

[Omott91]

If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony.

Point in case about people in glass houses.

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

France isnt the UK.  The UK failures like London do so because of a lack of infrastructure, not because a club cant work. Newcastle are not failing.

I see you just ignored the fact they wouldnt have to spend millions on travel . Those who invest,'now' are obviously not who we are targeting in the future.

Areas that could hold a SL in France?  Well Avignon already exist, population is 100,000 and the Arrondissement of Avignon is 200000. There is a suitable stadium which France got a capacity crowd vs England six years ago. 

A new market if done properly could be Montpellier. 

If the sport cant grow to create international opponents for England to play, the sport is dead. 

Our discussion began with your suggestion that Elite 1 Should be an equal measure of the Championship, considering that Elite 1 has not moved on very much in a number of years both on and off the field, why would new investors wish to join that League as a pathway to SL, the only way they will be enticed into the game is to be fast tracked straight into SL, something I don't expect the SL hierarchy would even contemplate doing.