Beaumont's Thoughts on Toronto and France

[JohnM]

7 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony.

Not sure I agree with that. Leigh has a lot of potential, al lot to contribute. Beaumont's financial contribution and personal  drive has achieved a lot in my view. I don't think, though, that his er.....er....heart-on-sleeve lack of diplomacy and subtlety is enough to take the club onwards and upwards to SuperLeague sustainability.

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

What else would you propose calling a competition across England, France and Wales?

Yes that is what I said Tommy a name, not as you suggest "make Super League European as it was supposed to be" was that really the intention?

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony.

I don't think to be fair we should get into ranking individual clubs, that sort of misses the point, his challenge is whether the UK game should be routing money from UK broadcasters and sponsors to Canada and France. 

It is a fair question. What exactly is the business case? 

My personal view is that we don't fully understand the potential benefits because we have had a lack of strategy and approach to it. 

But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. 

On the flip side, if we are going to look at positives, I'm not sure the World Cup would be in France without Catalans. 

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony.

I didn't want Leigh to get that spot in SL as I stated umpteen times on these pages, I wanted Toulouse to get the nod, in my opinion (others my differ) they would have suffered the same fate as Leigh did, how would you estimate their worth and value had that happened? I suppose we will find out come the end of this season. 

 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes that is what I said Tommy a name, not as you suggest "make Super League European as it was supposed to be" was that really the intention?

I really don't see how calling the competition European is that controversial to you?

[Lowdesert]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think to be fair we should get into ranking individual clubs, that sort of misses the point, his challenge is whether the UK game should be routing money from UK broadcasters and sponsors to Canada and France. 

It is a fair question. What exactly is the business case? 

My personal view is that we don't fully understand the potential benefits because we have had a lack of strategy and approach to it. 

But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. 

On the flip side, if we are going to look at positives, I'm not sure the World Cup would be in France without Catalans. 

Do you think the new commercial entity that is planned will look at this?
 

If there’s something that could be developed or needs to be culled, it will be easy to spot for outside analysts coming in.

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. 

So as a buisness decision, the French broadcasters I believe would not have come to a decision to invest or otherwise in RL in France did so on the toss of a coin, they would have done a costing and return on investment excersize and decided it would not be in their best interest to pursue the matter further, would locking the French clubs into SL make any difference I don't know, but I don't  believe we should go down that path not in a competitive structure.

[Harry Stottle]

34 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I really don't see how calling the competition European is that controversial to you?

I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. 

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. 

Why would it be away from the rest of the British game?

[Dave T]

47 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Do you think the new commercial entity that is planned will look at this?
 

If there’s something that could be developed or needs to be culled, it will be easy to spot for outside analysts coming in.

I hope so, I'd be stunned if a 3rd party didn't look at how we embed French teams into the structure. Or even if we should do. 

If they don't consider this, it would suggest they aren't that good. 

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So as a buisness decision, the French broadcasters I believe would not have come to a decision to invest or otherwise in RL in France did so on the toss of a coin, they would have done a costing and return on investment excersize and decided it would not be in their best interest to pursue the matter further, would locking the French clubs into SL make any difference I don't know, but I don't  believe we should go down that path not in a competitive structure.

Yes. I think this is ultimately the elephant in the room. 

Are the viewing and advertising numbers so low that we can't even get a million euro a year from a French broadcaster for example? At what point is a paying deal going to happen? Is it 2 teams, is it 6 teams, or are numbers so low that it could be a whole French conference and the value would still be negligible.

This is the question that needs to be answered. What is the current value (zero, but with the caveat that we haven't set ourselves up well), and what is the potential value and in what time frame. If there is no potential value, then it does rather bring us back to the question about vanity projects. 

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. 

 

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Why would it be away from the rest of the British game?

I feel I should point out that the competition has never officially been called the European Super League. 

The trading name is Super League (Europe) Ltd. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

 

I feel I should point out that the competition has never officially been called the European Super League. 

The trading name is Super League (Europe) Ltd. 

Indeed, going forward I think it should be made European

[Dave T]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Indeed, going forward I think it should be made European

I think an actual documented strategy is needed. Toronto isn't in Europe, so we need to work out what the approach really is. 

I'm not sure we need a territory attached to the comp name, most don't. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Dave T said:

I think an actual documented strategy is needed. Toronto isn't in Europe, so we need to work out what the approach really is. 

I'm not sure we need a territory attached to the comp name, most don't. 

They don't, although they are usually referred to by their nation: English Premier League for example.

I think the total lack of direction and vision is the key issue. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

They don't, although they are usually referred to by their nation: English Premier League for example.

I think the total lack of direction and vision is the key issue. 

I think that's fine abroad - the English Premier League isn't a thing here, or on anything official. 

The Aussie media may refer to our comp as European SL (or English SL) which is the same thing. 

I'm not against us branding as ESL, but not if it is just another logo. 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think that's fine abroad - the English Premier League isn't a thing here, or on anything official. 

The Aussie media may refer to our comp as European SL (or English SL) which is the same thing. 

I'm not against us branding as ESL, but not if it is just another logo. 

Quite, as I said the lack of vision and direction causes, frankly, a lot of money to be wasted too

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Yes. I think this is ultimately the elephant in the room. 

Are the viewing and advertising numbers so low that we can't even get a million euro a year from a French broadcaster for example? At what point is a paying deal going to happen? Is it 2 teams, is it 6 teams, or are numbers so low that it could be a whole French conference and the value would still be negligible.

This is the question that needs to be answered. What is the current value (zero, but with the caveat that we haven't set ourselves up well), and what is the potential value and in what time frame. If there is no potential value, then it does rather bring us back to the question about vanity projects. 

Considering that the Dragons play in a small town and put forward a Catalan image rather than a French image and most of their and Toulouse's opponents come from smallish English towns which the French public has likely never heard of, the answer could very well be yes.  The answer to your second question is: when SL offers something with enough appeal to the French public to enable a broadcaster to attract the sort of audience needed to underwrite the contract fee.  I'll leave it to the French members here to suggest what that might look like, if they can.

If memory serves, before Elstone intervened and screwed things up the value then was the price which BeIN Sports was reportedly paying, 80,000 € per year.  If none want to pay anything for rights even with Toulouse in SL too, that just underscores the damage Elstone did by his intervention.

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Considering that the Dragons play in a small town and put forward a Catalan image rather than a French image and most of their and Toulouse's opponents come from smallish English towns which the French public has likely never heard of, the answer could very well be yes.  The answer to your second question is: when SL offers something with enough appeal to the French public to enable a broadcaster to attract the sort of audience needed to underwrite the contract fee.  I'll leave it to the French members here to suggest what that might look like, if they can.

If memory serves, before Elstone intervened and screwed things up the value then was the price which BeIN Sports was reportedly paying, 80,000 € per year.  If none want to pay anything for rights even with Toulouse in SL too, that just underscores the damage Elstone did by his intervention.

You keep quoting that, but another knowledgeable poster on here told a different story that they wanted broadcast costs covered and the new offer wasn't for cash. 

[Snowys Backside]

So does no one feel at all that the inclusion of Toulouse and Catalans in SL has not only devalued Elite 1 Rugby in France but also Shafted the  National side? 

Very selfish us expansionists. Let's just kill the game in France, and let's not compare how Lezignan would do in the Championship. It wouldn't be very good even though its a graveyard for retiring Aussies! 

I think France will have a very 'average' World Cup but I don't think England will crack any pots either! 

[Niels]

French fans are usually very knowledgeable and appreciate sport is more than about big cities. 

French rugby union fans are interested in teams they play regardless of their size. They have good support. Also Toulouse drew a massive crowd for their game with Batley last year.

I never once heard any French fan mention the size of the town.

 

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

If the hypothetical concern about FRL was genuine then the solution would be to give those clubs a pathway to SL,  not dumping out two clubs in strong markets who can develop international players to provide England more internacional competition and revenue. 

Leigh population 41,000 . Toulouse 475000-500000 with an economy worth several billion euros. 

Yes a strong bulls would be good but having seen our tv deal slashed it is only internationals that can generate the commercial and sponsorship deals  (plus general public engagement ) to help the sport survive. That means clubs that can produce players to compete with England are more important than Bulls or our former glory clubs. 

84000 attended the 07 Challenge Cup final between St Helens and Catalan so it clearly can be done. We had 10 years at Wembley of near enough 80,000 average at Challenge Cup finals. 

Noone is lambasting him for having an opinion but because his opinion is dross and loaded with self interest. 

Derek cares about his club, thats it.  He has provided a perfect example of why club owners should not be allowed to dictate the shape of the sport currently.

I attended the 07 CC , did it matter to me who was playing ? , No , I attended to see the first CC at the new Wembley , not been since , won't be going unless Leyth are playing there in the future 

[Davo5]

40 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

So does no one feel at all that the inclusion of Toulouse and Catalans in SL has not only devalued Elite 1 Rugby in France but also Shafted the  National side? 

Very selfish us expansionists. Let's just kill the game in France, and let's not compare how Lezignan would do in the Championship. It wouldn't be very good even though its a graveyard for retiring Aussies! 

I think France will have a very 'average' World Cup but I don't think England will crack any pots either! 

Nope,I think it’s just you so far.

[Snowys Backside]

Just now, Davo5 said:

Nope,I think it’s just you so far.

Aww, 

I know how Sir Kev feels now

[ATLANTISMAN]

Around 70% of TV LED sponsors (According to my wife) are global corporations of which the majority are attracted because of the addition of clubs in France.

 

She estimates it brings in around 2 million a year to SL clubs (Some more than others) with 4/5 clubs leading the way bottom for revenue would be Wakefield and Castleford as they have no LED systems in their stadiums. Added to this would be many companies attending finals and internationals VIP/tickets etc + 1/2 go on to be major sponsors shirts etc.

 

One example is Open Exchange which are a USA company who are the shirt sponsor of Wigan this season their CEO attended both Warriors matches recently in France i know as i sat next to him at the VIP at the Dragons and he told me that having the matches in France with French TV was important for them in addition to the UK market.

 

Paul