Harry Stottle Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Saint 1 said: Knowles is in form, to suggest he would be an inclusion on past reputation is laughable. And for what it's worth, often the "name" has been earned by being the best player in his position, by far more qualified judges than ourselves. Has been earned is the part that worries me it has been applied too many times and usually as in the past tense irrespective of present form in the hope that something will rekindle how they earned the reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Dunbar said: Morgan Knowles would be the first name on the team sheet for me. On their best form I have Westerman ahead as is a fair bit bigger....he is less consistent though but I think it's easier to be consistent in a team like Saints than the teams Westerman has played in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, WN83 said: There is room for both of them IMO, which would mean one playing a spell at prop but that's not an issue. This, and that is what I said earlier in the thread. In my opinion we need to have players who can utilise the ball and make the plays for support players. Those who will represent Australia, NZ et all, are used to the crash bang wholehearted 100% effort player's they are used to them they face them week in week out throughout the season, but there are not to many who add something different who will not be in their squads. Out of all the English forwards either in SL or the NRL Walmsley is one of those, Westerman is another one, all to often we have selected teams to contain the opposition we need to select player's who offer something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 25 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: On their best form I have Westerman ahead as is a fair bit bigger....he is less consistent though but I think it's easier to be consistent in a team like Saints than the teams Westerman has played in One has been consistently good for nearly 7 years, the other has been pretty inconsistent for nearly 15 years St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 2 hours ago, The Rocket said: I`ve seen too many `Dad`s army` English Rugby League teams get run off their feet by Aussie teams full off 25 - 28 year olds in their physical prime. Bringing in a 32 year old would show your selectors haven`t learnt a thing. You`ve got to go with youth. There’s nothing wrong with playing 32 year olds at International level, but this 32 year old simply isn’t good enough for a top International team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: This, and that is what I said earlier in the thread. In my opinion we need to have players who can utilise the ball and make the plays for support players. Those who will represent Australia, NZ et all, are used to the crash bang wholehearted 100% effort player's they are used to them they face them week in week out throughout the season, but there are not to many who add something different who will not be in their squads. Out of all the English forwards either in SL or the NRL Walmsley is one of those, Westerman is another one, all to often we have selected teams to contain the opposition we need to select player's who offer something different. You don't need to be different, just better than your opposite number. There are a lot of position that England just doesn't have players who are as good or better than what the Aussie's & Kiwi's can pick, but prop & LF are definately 2 that we can St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I've always liked Westerman and felt that he could have had a fantastic career. He's definitely got all the skills, but has never settled at one club long enough to really cement his role. On his day he looks like a world-beater - but how often do those days happen? not often enough I'm afraid. If they were picking the squad right now, then maybe he'd be in the mix. My feeling is by the end of the season he'll either have faded from Castleford's team--or even fallen out with Radford and be angling for yet another move to a new club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 3 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said: On their best form I have Westerman ahead as is a fair bit bigger....he is less consistent though but I think it's easier to be consistent in a team like Saints than the teams Westerman has played in From what I can see of the players on Wikipedia, Westerman is 6' 4" and 17.5 stone and Knowles is 6' and 16 stone 5lbs. But despite that, I would pick Knowles over Westerman because I think he offers more physically which probably sums up my frustration with Westerman - he is a big man but doesn't play that size nearly enough for me. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 So Wane should only pick players on current form,let’s hope Greg Eden doesn’t go on one of his try scoring runs before the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Browny Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Knowles is very physical and a key player for Saints, but he gets away with stuff in a Saints shirt that he wouldnt for England in a test match. He would need to rein in the third-man-in shoulder charges and facials or we would be a man down in the first ten minutes. I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimmestStar Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: There’s nothing wrong with playing 32 year olds at International level, but this 32 year old simply isn’t good enough for a top International team. Fair enough but you can only choose from what you've got. Just wonder what you make of the 34 year old Ryan Hall? He's scored 20 tries in 24 games for Hull KR and is still bringing the ball out of defence like he always did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 10 hours ago, DavidM said: I’d put Knowles and Sutton ahead of him Sutton can't even get a game in a poor club team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, DimmestStar said: Fair enough but you can only choose from what you've got. Just wonder what you make of the 34 year old Ryan Hall? He's scored 20 tries in 24 games for Hull KR and is still bringing the ball out of defence like he always did. Always loved Hall, but thought his time had passed...... but he gives so much with his size coming inside and running the ball in the 2nd half when the forwards (on both sides) are tired out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Sutton can't even get a game in a poor club team. He was a regular and one of their best and most consistent , and played in the trials this preseason …then it was announced a week from the season starting that he was moving to the Bulldogs . Suddenly he’s not featuring , and his form or ability haven’t changed so i think there’s more to it than being dropped . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Just now, DavidM said: He was a regular and one of their best and most consistent , and played in the trials this preseason …then it was announced a week from the season starting that he was moving to the Bulldogs . Suddenly he’s not featuring , and his form or ability haven’t changed so i think there’s more to it than being dropped . We are talking about the WC - we can't pick a player who can't even get a game in an average team - no matter what the reasons. There are far better players in SL - those NRL tinted glasses now mean players who don't even get a game in the NRL are better than top, very good SL players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 42 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: We are talking about the WC - we can't pick a player who can't even get a game in an average team - no matter what the reasons. There are far better players in SL - those NRL tinted glasses now mean players who don't even get a game in the NRL are better than top, very good SL players. As I have said before, I think you pick the best players available and you can judge the merits of a player in both the NRL and Super League. I think it is only when it is a tight call that the comp should be considered and if two players were being considered in such a call I would take the NRL player as he is playing in a higher standard competition. With that in mind, who do you have in Super League better than Sutton (considering we will have maybe 6 or so middle forwards in the squad). "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dunbar said: As I have said before, I think you pick the best players available and you can judge the merits of a player in both the NRL and Super League. I think it is only when it is a tight call that the comp should be considered and if two players were being considered in such a call I would take the NRL player as he is playing in a higher standard competition. With that in mind, who do you have in Super League better than Sutton (considering we will have maybe 6 or so middle forwards in the squad). If your not playing NRL games - your not an NRL player are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 40 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: If your not playing NRL games - your not an NRL player are you. I was only interested in who you think is better in Super League but if you don't want to have that conversation, fine. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Robertson Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Westerman has to be the starting loose forward, for England, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I was only interested in who you think is better in Super League but if you don't want to have that conversation, fine. Its like talking to a potato... what do you mean who? - whats the title of this thread?? - Westerham.... The clue is in the title of the thread you are commentating on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Its like talking to a potato... what do you mean who? - whats the title of this thread?? - Westerham.... The clue is in the title of the thread you are commentating on. You said "there are far better players in SL". This was clearly a plural and so I was just asking you who they were. But seeing as we have arrived at throwing insults around, let's not bother. Have a good evening. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Mr Frisky said: We are talking about the WC - we can't pick a player who can't even get a game in an average team - no matter what the reasons. There are far better players in SL - those NRL tinted glasses now mean players who don't even get a game in the NRL are better than top, very good SL players. Whatever his situation now which SL forwards have we that are better than Sutton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szymala Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 19 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: There’s nothing wrong with playing 32 year olds at International level, but this 32 year old simply isn’t good enough for a top International team. Westerman has never been quite good enough as his meagre tally of caps illustrates. Knowles has to be at loose-forward when the WC kicks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Szymala said: Westerman has never been quite good enough as his meagre tally of caps illustrates. Knowles has to be at loose-forward when the WC kicks off. Knowles is ahead of Westerman, but I can see the benefit of starting the game with 3 props, Walmsley, Oledzki, Burgess, Thompson, Sutton, Lees, Cooper will be in the mix. Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa have so much size starting with 3 props will help us match them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted April 8, 2022 Author Share Posted April 8, 2022 13 hours ago, Davo5 said: So Wane should only pick players on current form As we approach the start of the comp, absolutely yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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