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Venue switch - World Cup QF


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7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There's still England at Bolton in the group stage too. Its 200k tickets to sell to basically the local area.

So average attending home fan numbers for those clubs about 30/35K, asking each one to attend nearly 6 games each, OK there will be some fans travelling in to the venues but still a big ask, then on top of that they have the Womens and PD comps.

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yeah, I don't think they have the pricing quite right tbh and I do expect some creativity with the pricing as we get closer. 

My worry is that they have 4 games at Wire, 3 at Saints, 3 at Leigh and 1 at Wigan - that's 11 games and 165k tickets to sell. 

I hope they go down the route of working with charities and community groups, schools etc to offer cheaper pricing if they do that at all. 

So have they got it wrong or is the major problem for the RLWC organisers the legacy they have created with a decade of #### show policies around ticketing marquee events? 

People like me who will wait and wait and wait and then cash in when circumstances allow now come into play.

It wasn't always like that I was a historical early bird. I enquired about RLWC hospitality last year and no one bothered to reply. I remember actually phoning the RFL a few years ago asking why they only had lower bowl (behind the goals) open at Olympic Park 2016 when they got over 40k for the Kiwis the previous year. I have tried they early stuff and got ###### over. John Dutton was the man back then too.

What is the likelihood I will pick up a glut of cheap tickets to marquee events for the WC and maybe even cut price hospitality? I rocked up to the Grand Final this year last minute on a 50% discount ticket.

Is it RL fans like me (who will spend a lot of money on the sport) who is the problem or do you reap what you sow?

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5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It seems like someone at RLHQ considers they are close enough to be one big city.

Perhaps, but even then there are too many fixtures in one area that is unlikely to bring lots of fans in from elsewhere (save Cumbria at best, maybe).

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

What is the likelihood I will pick up a glut of cheap tickets to marquee events for the WC and maybe even cut price hospitality? I rocked up to the Grand Final this year last minute on a 50% discount ticket.

You are probably echoing what most fans are thinking, especially in areas where there are multiple fixtures a "let's wait and see" policy.

Just as an aside on the subject of hospitality, I enquired with the organisers if they had on offer hospitality for the 1895 at WHL, never recieved a reply!

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7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes. I understand the approach of reducing numbers of venues, it was one of the findings from 2013, but I think geographically we are too tight in some areas. 

Now I hope my concerns are unfounded, let's be honest we do have tens of thousands of ready made customers in this area, but I fear there will be too much of a reliance on us customers attending many games, and as per my post a few weeks back, the pricing structure doesn't really lend itself to that. 

Yeah its odd and is indeed at odds with eachother. Its like selling multipack items as premium one offs.

As we have discussed before the "third" games at any of the grounds were tough sells anyway, even more so for Leigh, Warrington and St Helens given their proximity to eachother and on top of that the marquee fixtures like an England group game, 2 Quarter finals and the final. Now it seems even more tough to squeeze a lot out of that area. 

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's interesting, if you look at that Category of seats that was sold out in Leeds I think it was something like 2 blocks at the ends of the South Stand. It wasn't worth shouting about, but understand why they did so. 

Scraping the barrel sadly comes to mind

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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I hope they go down the route of working with charities and community groups, schools etc to offer cheaper pricing if they do that at all. 

That would be one way of doing it, another would be to offer those that have bought tickets to the tournament a special offer of discounted prices for tickets for other matches, that way those who bought early don't feel like they've been taken for mugs

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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You are probably echoing what most fans are thinking, especially in areas where there are multiple fixtures a "let's wait and see" policy.

Just as an aside on the subject of hospitality, I enquired with the organisers if they had on offer hospitality for the 1895 at WHL, never recieved a reply!

As I said H, this is not a historical behaviour for me. I remember booking early and in expensive sections for marque events regularly in the past. The return to Wembley first 2 years and test matches 4N 2009 and 2011 really being the last instance of that. By 2013 it was a free for all.

I even bought 4 tickets for the RLWC final in 2013 (the week before) knowing I was probably only going to use 2/3 of them. They were that cheap and discounted. This board was basically "any body got a CODE" or Groupon jokes between 2012 and 2018 (coinciding nicely with Nigel Wood's tenure)

Edited by Scubby
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44 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

St Helens, 18k.

Face it Gubby, they've halved the two Quarter Finals they've had to move. I suspect, as others on this thread have suggested, the pre sales were way down hence the willingness to so radically slash venue capacity.

Maybe they did , us RL fans are notoriously slow in booking tickets , but what will be will be 

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11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So average attending home fan numbers for those clubs about 30/35K, asking each one to attend nearly 6 games each, OK there will be some fans travelling in to the venues but still a big ask, then on top of that they have the Womens and PD comps.

That was why Liverpool was critical for me. You'd have got fans from Yorkshire and indeed all over the country coming in for that game which relieves that pressure on the local fanbase which already had a glut of fixtures with an overdependency on them even then.

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe they did , us RL fans are notoriously slow in booking tickets , but what will be will be 

Or what will be will be halved to a place we're already taking 3 games to in an already saturated wider market. Same difference. 

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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes. I understand the approach of reducing numbers of venues, it was one of the findings from 2013, but I think geographically we are too tight in some areas. 

Now I hope my concerns are unfounded, let's be honest we do have tens of thousands of ready made customers in this area, but I fear there will be too much of a reliance on us customers attending many games, and as per my post a few weeks back, the pricing structure doesn't really lend itself to that. 

It does seem like the organisers are stuck between a rock and a hard place in some respects. Spread the games across numerous venues and numerous locations across the country and the likelihood is that the tickets struggle to sell. Even with some really good promotion it's hard to see bumper crowds in non-heartland areas.

As you say though, concentrating most of the games in the heartland areas does have the benefit of catering for the sports only clearly defined audience in this country, but it relies on people attending several games. I'm not sure how much disposable income the average RL fan has to be attending two, three or four games post-pandemic during a cost of living crisis.

I know that people don't have much faith in the people who run and organise the game, but it really feels like a tough sell at the moment given the postponement, the economic climate and the demographics of the typical rugby league supporting areas.

If the focus is purely on attendances it will probably end up being a disappointment. If they had spread the fixtures further afield they could have really focused on community initiatives in the host towns or cities and tried to create something that goes a little deeper than just turning up to a rugby match one day. Harder to do that in the heartlands because a lot of clubs are already heavily involved.

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48 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

That would be one way of doing it, another would be to offer those that have bought tickets to the tournament a special offer of discounted prices for tickets for other matches, that way those who bought early don't feel like they've been taken for mugs

Yes, absolutely. Nice idea if they get desperate. 

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It will be interesting to see how the Women's Euros sells, with similar issues over numbers of games in small area (7 or 8 between Sheffield and Rotherham) and with a far higher marketing budget and media coverage.

Edited by RigbyLuger
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32 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

It does seem like the organisers are stuck between a rock and a hard place in some respects. Spread the games across numerous venues and numerous locations across the country and the likelihood is that the tickets struggle to sell. Even with some really good promotion it's hard to see bumper crowds in non-heartland areas.

As you say though, concentrating most of the games in the heartland areas does have the benefit of catering for the sports only clearly defined audience in this country, but it relies on people attending several games. I'm not sure how much disposable income the average RL fan has to be attending two, three or four games post-pandemic during a cost of living crisis.

I know that people don't have much faith in the people who run and organise the game, but it really feels like a tough sell at the moment given the postponement, the economic climate and the demographics of the typical rugby league supporting areas.

If the focus is purely on attendances it will probably end up being a disappointment. If they had spread the fixtures further afield they could have really focused on community initiatives in the host towns or cities and tried to create something that goes a little deeper than just turning up to a rugby match one day. Harder to do that in the heartlands because a lot of clubs are already heavily involved.

Looking at the review of the last wc here, the average was 2.8 games attended, although I expect that data is on the low side as people bought through different people and channels with different registered details. 

Based on a smaller geographical spread I think they will be looking for that to be a fair bit higher for this tournament, but they have put the prices up substantially and I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand. Asking people to attend more events, and charging them substantially more. 

Of course they are my assumptions, and they could be wrong, but I hope they know what they are doing. 

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8 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It will be interesting to see how the Women's Euros sells, with similar issues over numbers of games in small area (7 or 8 between Sheffield and Rotherham) and with a far higher marketing budget and media coverage.

Here's the answer 

https://www.uefa.com/womenseuro/news/026f-13c21c5ec54d-15f27a1a2373-1000--uefa-women-s-euro-2022-set-for-new-record-attendance-after-unpr/

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14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Looking at the review of the last wc here, the average was 2.8 games attended, although I expect that data is on the low side as people bought through different people and channels with different registered details. 

Based on a smaller geographical spread I think they will be looking for that to be a fair bit higher for this tournament, but they have put the prices up substantially and I'm not sure those two things go hand in hand. Asking people to attend more events, and charging them substantially more. 

Of course they are my assumptions, and they could be wrong, but I hope they know what they are doing. 

I think for some of the weeknight games in the northwest club stadiums your assumptions are sadly correct - way too costly for just the local market, especially for 3 games. 

For the weekend games at the bigger stadiums, I think they'll draw fans from a much wider area - coming from the south I'm only attending games on the weekend - and I think they'll do OK. 

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17 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

I remember when the FA made a big deal about the Women's FA Cup Final selling out, and it didn't. Not that I'm saying I don't trust UEFA, but will be interesting to see how it goes. 

 

We aren't just selling to RL fans, but those who want to see an event. As daft as it is, stuff like the Samba band at Leeds for England vs. Brazil, a game in which we all know the result, will add to that event feel, and the ticket prices for the womens/wheelchair games will help as well.

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6 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

I remember when the FA made a big deal about the Women's FA Cup Final selling out, and it didn't.

I think the one you're thinking of is the England v Germany women's international from a few years ago which was technically a sell-out but then had an on-the-day attendance of about 75,000.

Right now, there are matches in the women's Euros that there are no public tickets left but that could mean that there are tickets that will be unused in the hands of corporate partners and the like.

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There's a bit of an issue with not learning from previous World Cups in the UK. Games in non-heartlands areas have done as well or better than heartlands venues. This was true for both 2000 and 2013, albeit with a smallish sample. We've been a bit starved of action down South, sadly.

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36 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

There's a bit of an issue with not learning from previous World Cups in the UK. Games in non-heartlands areas have done as well or better than heartlands venues. This was true for both 2000 and 2013, albeit with a smallish sample. We've been a bit starved of action down South, sadly.

To be fair to them, they sort of have learnt (whether what they have learnt is right we'll see). 

They are very likely to deliver bigger crowds in this year's venues than they did in Neath, Bristol and Cork, and the opener as a standalone event is likely to surpass Cardiff. The costs of staging events in those places versus the returns were likely pretty poor. 

I do agree we should have seen something else in London though. 

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54 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

There's a bit of an issue with not learning from previous World Cups in the UK. Games in non-heartlands areas have done as well or better than heartlands venues. This was true for both 2000 and 2013, albeit with a smallish sample. We've been a bit starved of action down South, sadly.

It was only true in 2013 with dirt cheap tickets. We secured government funding for a Northern tournament, it makes sense to hold most games in Rugby League stadiums if the World Cup is to have a positive longer term legacy. Some of the worst attendances from the 2000 tournament were outside the heartlands.

New Zealand v Lebanon Gloucester 2500

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13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair to them, they sort of have learnt (whether what they have learnt is right we'll see). 

They are very likely to deliver bigger crowds in this year's venues than they did in Neath, Bristol and Cork, and the opener as a standalone event is likely to surpass Cardiff. The costs of staging events in those places versus the returns were likely pretty poor. 

I do agree we should have seen something else in London though. 

We can only really take big games to London, the stadiums are bigger and far more costly. So you are looking at England’s opening game (Newcastle) the semi final (Emirates), or the final (Old Trafford). I’m happy with those selections. We could have taken England v France to London, but it’d be a risk, I don’t think many would travel from the North to London for that game so it’d need to be purely on local sales, I think they didn’t want to risk that game making a loss if it didn’t pay off. 

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Maybe they did , us RL fans are notoriously slow in booking tickets , but what will be will be 

RL usually gives very little incentive to book early and those that do so are often disadvantaged by cut price offers down the line. Once bitten, twice shy with many fans.

This unfortunately is coupled with very few events getting close to selling out, meaning there is usually very little chance of not getting tickets that you want anyway and there is no fear of missing out to drive sales.

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3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

We can only really take big games to London, the stadiums are bigger and far more costly. So you are looking at England’s opening game (Newcastle) the semi final (Emirates), or the final (Old Trafford). I’m happy with those selections. We could have taken England v France to London, but it’d be a risk, I don’t think many would travel from the North to London for that game so it’d need to be purely on local sales, I think they didn’t want to risk that game making a loss if it didn’t pay off. 

I'm not sure that's fully accurate. 

I think we could have made a decent case for a smaller ground in London. 

The thing that we can't ignore though is that there was a bidding process for this, so depending on how that worked through, just going hiring a ground in London may have been a no no. 

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