The NRL revive talk of 2023 season opener in LA

[Tony Angelino]

9 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

He claims he is, and posts on leagueunlimited.com and is just as negative

I suspect he's a fumbleball fan

 

I visit that site regularly as well and many posters on there all talk about the AFL investing heavily on grassroots in south east Queensland.

I think this weighed heavily on the NRL’s decision to pick another south east Queensland franchise as their “expansion” pick.

[Copa]

I struggle to see the point of this. It’s possible it could simply be a marketing tool for US online gambling companies and all their executives will be invited to attend.

Have a series of meetings and then have the match as a promotional tool.

[The Future is League]

11 minutes ago, Copa said:

I struggle to see the point of this. It’s possible it could simply be a marketing tool for US online gambling companies and all their executives will be invited to attend.

Have a series of meetings and then have the match as a promotional tool.

It gets the game positive column inches i guess

[The Future is League]

55 minutes ago, Tony Angelino said:

I visit that site regularly as well and many posters on there all talk about the AFL investing heavily on grassroots in south east Queensland.

I think this weighed heavily on the NRL’s decision to pick another south east Queensland franchise as their “expansion” pick.

The Dolphins are committed to spending a large amount of money on junior development, and i expect the next NRL club will be based in Queensland as well

[The Great Dane]

9 hours ago, NW10LDN said:

Rugby League is a national sport in PNG and has had big growth in Tonga and Fiji. They obviously have a different view considering that they convinced the Aus gov to spend millions on rugby league programmes in the Pacific. Giving up on NZ? Good thing you are not in charge of the NRL.

The only hard evidence of 'big growth in Tonga and Fiji' that I've seen is a jump in attendance at their internationals in Australia and NZ, but for sake of argument lets assume there has been significant growth on the ground in Tonga and Fiji.

• Tonga is a poor country with a population of 105k.
• Fiji while nowhere near as bad off as Tonga, is still a politically unstable 3rd world country with a total pop of 896k spread across many islands, while Suva, it's largest city, has less than 100k.
• PNG is much larger than both the others, but it's population is spread over a much larger, much more rugged and dangerous, area. They still have serious corruption and security issues, and nearly 40% (the exact number may have changed since I last looked) of their population lives in absolute poverty while most of the rest couldn't afford the costs of supporting an NRL side regularly.

None of them have valuable broadcast markets, none of them have a large population of people whom could afford the cost of a ticket on a regular basis, they'd be extremely expensive to operate out of with massive travel and security costs, etc, etc. Basically as markets they are high costs low value, especially when compared to value of Australian markets without any representation in the NRL.

To give you an analogy you might understand; imagine if it was realistically feasible for the Super League to expand to Glasgow, Birmingham, and other large cities in the UK without any significant RL presence, then another person came along and said "nah we shouldn't invest in them, we should focus our efforts on growing the sport in Tunisia and Libya instead", that's effectively what you and others like you are suggesting, and frankly it's batshit.

BTW, the fact you think 'they' (whoever they are) convinced the Australian government to invest in sport in the PI's shows you've got no clue what is going on in the Asia-Pacific region. All the money the Australian government spends on sport and infrastructure in the PI's is football diplomacy attempting to counteract China's growing influence in the region. It's not working, and that government money could never be relied on in the first place.

Edited April 19, 2022 by The Great Dane

[The Great Dane]

4 hours ago, Tony Angelino said:

I visit that site regularly as well and many posters on there all talk about the AFL investing heavily on grassroots in south east Queensland.

I think this weighed heavily on the NRL’s decision to pick another south east Queensland franchise as their “expansion” pick.

That's just excuse making to justify taking the easy route of adding the Dolphins in Moreton Bay.

If the NRL was serious about using expansion to counteract the AFL's growth in Brisbane then they would have invested in the west of Brisbane (namely Ipswich), because that's where the AFL is investing the most for growth in Brisbane.

Truth be told the NRL picked the Dolphins because News offered them a bonus if they picked them, and the Dolphins are an easy nostalgia sale to old fans.

Edited April 19, 2022 by The Great Dane

[RL Sonja]

On 18/04/2022 at 02:46, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Not every Aussie goes to NRL games. There’s over 2 million Aussies living in Perth, doesn’t mean they could sell 2 million tickets.

We do alright in Perth for something no-one is interested in according to some AFL scribes. Last Origin played there was a sell-out at just under 60,000. Games played in Perth since the late 1980s have always sold well. The Reds had some great early crowds until SLW killed them off. 

If the NRL ever got serious about it, the team would do well.

The thing about Perth is - if there is no local content, they just tune out. The NRL would see great growth in the region with a flagship team but are too myopic to do it. 

[Tony Angelino]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The Dolphins are committed to spending a large amount of money on junior development, and i expect the next NRL club will be based in Queensland as well

The Dolphins are a safe option for the NRL as they are based in the RL stronghold of south east Queensland and are I believe one of the richest clubs in the NRL if not the richest.

As for the 18th NRL franchise also being in Queensland I would personally hope not as I believe either of Perth or NZ2 would be more beneficial to the NRL and RL as a whole in the case of NZ2.

[Tony Angelino]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

That's just excuse making to justify taking the easy route of adding the Dolphins in Moreton Bay.

If the NRL was serious about using expansion to counteract the AFL's growth in Brisbane then they would have invested in the west of Brisbane (namely Ipswich), because that's where the AFL is investing the most for growth in Brisbane.

Truth be told the NRL picked the Dolphins because News offered them a bonus if they picked them, and the Dolphins are an easy nostalgia sale to old fans.

Didn’t the dolphins pay some sort of entrance fee to the NRL?

[Tony Angelino]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The only hard evidence of 'big growth in Tonga and Fiji' that I've seen is a jump in attendance at their internationals in Australia and NZ, but for sake of argument lets assume there has been significant growth on the ground in Tonga and Fiji.

• Tonga is a poor country with a population of 105k.
• Fiji while nowhere near as bad off as Tonga, is still a politically unstable 3rd world country with a total pop of 896k spread across many islands, while Suva, it's largest city, has less than 100k.
• PNG is much larger than both the others, but it's population is spread over a much larger, much more rugged and dangerous, area. They still have serious corruption and security issues, and nearly 40% (the exact number may have changed since I last looked) of their population lives in absolute poverty while most of the rest couldn't afford the costs of supporting an NRL side regularly.

None of them have valuable broadcast markets, none of them have a large population of people whom could afford the cost of a ticket on a regular basis, they'd be extremely expensive to operate out of with massive travel and security costs, etc, etc. Basically as markets they are high costs low value, especially when compared to value of Australian markets without any representation in the NRL.

To give you an analogy you might understand; imagine if it was realistically feasible for the Super League to expand to Glasgow, Birmingham, and other large cities in the UK without any significant RL presence, then another person came along and said "nah we shouldn't invest in them, we should focus our efforts on growing the sport in Tunisia and Libya instead", that's effectively what you and others like you are suggesting, and frankly it's batshit.

BTW, the fact you think 'they' (whoever they are) convinced the Australian government to invest in sport in the PI's shows you've got no clue what is going on in the Asia-Pacific region. All the money the Australian government spends on sport and infrastructure in the PI's is football diplomacy attempting to counteract China's growing influence in the region. It's not working, and that government money could never be relied on in the first place.

Whilst I agree with you that pacific nations like Fiji, png, Tonga and Samoa other nothing to the NRL financially they do offer potential superstars of the game like sivo, kikau and olam etc that light up the competition and get people coming through the turnstiles or watching on TV or talking about it on social media etc.

Talk of NRL teams in PNG or Fiji etc is just pure pie in the sky stuff but investment in these countries at grassroots levels and creating pathways like that of the png hunters and Kaiviti silktails and hopefully other nations like New Caledonian, Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands will see big returns for the NRL for all the reasons stated above.

[The Great Dane]

5 hours ago, Tony Angelino said:

Didn’t the dolphins pay some sort of entrance fee to the NRL?

There's no franchise fee to join the NRL.

4 hours ago, Tony Angelino said:

Whilst I agree with you that pacific nations like Fiji, png, Tonga and Samoa other nothing to the NRL financially they do offer potential superstars of the game like sivo, kikau and olam etc that light up the competition and get people coming through the turnstiles or watching on TV or talking about it on social media etc.

Talk of NRL teams in PNG or Fiji etc is just pure pie in the sky stuff but investment in these countries at grassroots levels and creating pathways like that of the png hunters and Kaiviti silktails and hopefully other nations like New Caledonian, Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands will see big returns for the NRL for all the reasons stated above.

All that grassroots and junior development in the PI's comes at the expense of development locally. In other words every dollar spent on development in the PI's is a dollar that could be spent in Australia, and every Sivo, Kikau, and Olam takes a place that an Australian athlete could have had.

I assure you that better investment into the Vic, WA, SA, etc, even just the bush, would produce better returns for the NRL in the long term than Fiji, Tonga, etc, and that guys like Buddy Franklin, Dustin Martin, and Christian Petracca would have been just as big of stars as Sivo, Kikau, et al., had RL realistically had a chance of converting them to RL in their youth.

Furthermore, those Australian athletes that get dropped to make room for your Sivo's and Kikau's of the world don't just disappear. If they are good enough to make it in RL then they're good enough to make it in other sports, and that's exactly what they go on to do and it's increasingly biting the NRL in the ###### as a result. Alexander Volkanovski, Jordan Mailata, and many others all started in RL before moving to other sports once they ran out of opportunities in RL.

BTW, I doubt you'll see much investment into the Solomon Islands or Vanuatu with the way things are going politically.

Edited April 19, 2022 by The Great Dane

[The Rocket]

23 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

There's no franchise fee to join the NRL.

All that grassroots and junior development in the PI's comes at the expense of development locally. In other words every dollar spent on development in the PI's is a dollar that could be spent in Australia, and every Sivo, Kikau, and Olam takes a place that an Australian athlete could have had.

I assure you that better investment into the Vic, WA, SA, etc, even just the bush, would produce better returns for the NRL in the long term than Fiji, Tonga, etc, and that guys like Buddy Franklin, Dustin Martin, and Christian Petracca would have been just as big of stars as Sivo, Kikau, et al., had RL realistically had a chance of converting them to RL in their youth.

Furthermore, those Australian athletes that get dropped to make room for your Sivo's and Kikau's of the world don't just disappear. If they are good enough to make it in RL then they're good enough to make it in other sports, and that's exactly what they go on to do and it's increasingly biting the NRL in the ###### as a result. Alexander Volkanovski, Jordan Mailata, and many others all started in RL before moving to other sports once they ran out of opportunities in RL.

BTW, I doubt you'll see much investment into the Solomon Islands or Vanuatu with the way things are going politically.

The amount of money that the NRL actually spend in the Pacific Islands would be a pittance any way, and what they do spend would go a long, long way because of the difference in value of the relative currencies.

The other thing to note was that a lot of it was funded by the Federal Gov`t any way as part of their push for closer ties to combat Chinese influence. Having a League friendly PM didn`t hurt as well.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The amount of money that the NRL actually spend in the Pacific Islands would be a pittance any way, and what they do spend would go a long, long way because of the difference in value of the relative currencies.

The other thing to note was that a lot of it was funded by the Federal Gov`t any way as part of their push for closer ties to combat Chinese influence. Having a League friendly PM didn`t hurt as well.

I'd say when it comes to bang for your buck its hard to beat the PI nations. The NRL don't invest much, as you rightly point out, but they get access to a rich seam of Rugby players with all the attributes any RL team look for. It also allows for much Government aided funding. Any benefit of that money being kept in Australia is almost non-existent.

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, Tony Angelino said:

The Dolphins are a safe option for the NRL as they are based in the RL stronghold of south east Queensland and are I believe one of the richest clubs in the NRL if not the richest.

As for the 18th NRL franchise also being in Queensland I would personally hope not as I believe either of Perth or NZ2 would be more beneficial to the NRL and RL as a whole in the case of NZ2.

If Peter V'landys is still in his position the 18th club will be in Queensland. 

It seems he intends to squeeze the AFL as much as he can in Queensland until the pips come out.

A 2nd NRL club in the south island in NZ would be great for NZ Rugby League and the NRL itself

[Guest]

16 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The only hard evidence of 'big growth in Tonga and Fiji' that I've seen is a jump in attendance at their internationals in Australia and NZ, but for sake of argument lets assume there has been significant growth on the ground in Tonga and Fiji.

• Tonga is a poor country with a population of 105k.
• Fiji while nowhere near as bad off as Tonga, is still a politically unstable 3rd world country with a total pop of 896k spread across many islands, while Suva, it's largest city, has less than 100k.
• PNG is much larger than both the others, but it's population is spread over a much larger, much more rugged and dangerous, area. They still have serious corruption and security issues, and nearly 40% (the exact number may have changed since I last looked) of their population lives in absolute poverty while most of the rest couldn't afford the costs of supporting an NRL side regularly.

None of them have valuable broadcast markets, none of them have a large population of people whom could afford the cost of a ticket on a regular basis, they'd be extremely expensive to operate out of with massive travel and security costs, etc, etc. Basically as markets they are high costs low value, especially when compared to value of Australian markets without any representation in the NRL.

To give you an analogy you might understand; imagine if it was realistically feasible for the Super League to expand to Glasgow, Birmingham, and other large cities in the UK without any significant RL presence, then another person came along and said "nah we shouldn't invest in them, we should focus our efforts on growing the sport in Tunisia and Libya instead", that's effectively what you and others like you are suggesting, and frankly it's batshit.

BTW, the fact you think 'they' (whoever they are) convinced the Australian government to invest in sport in the PI's shows you've got no clue what is going on in the Asia-Pacific region. All the money the Australian government spends on sport and infrastructure in the PI's is football diplomacy attempting to counteract China's growing influence in the region. It's not working, and that government money could never be relied on in the first place.

I know why the money is being spent. Happens in the UK as well. Your comparison to Tunisia and Libya doesn't work because those countries don't border the UK and influenced by UK media.

[The Future is League]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we-ve-exhausted-all-revenues-in-australia-why-nrl-is-fair-dinkum-about-america-20220418-p5ae7a.html

[Futtocks]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we-ve-exhausted-all-revenues-in-australia-why-nrl-is-fair-dinkum-about-america-20220418-p5ae7a.html

Why does "We’ve exhausted all revenues in Australia" sound awfully like the NRL's next excuse for not expanding (WA or NZII) for another decade or so.

[The Future is League]

Just now, Futtocks said:

Why does "We’ve exhausted all revenues in Australia" sound awfully like the NRL's next excuse for not expanding (WA or NZII) for another decade or so.

I thought the same

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/we-ve-exhausted-all-revenues-in-australia-why-nrl-is-fair-dinkum-about-america-20220418-p5ae7a.html

As I said on the other thread where this is mentioned its is awfully defeatist if the NRL doesn't think it can drive more revenue within Australia. There are still major cities with no NRL presence and little RL. There is also the entire NZ South Island to look at. A presence in these areas will surely increase revenue and truly fulfil the national part of the NRL name.

[The Future is League]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

As I said on the other thread where this is mentioned its is awfully defeatist if the NRL doesn't think it can drive more revenue within Australia. There are still major cities with no NRL presence and little RL. There is also the entire NZ South Island to look at. A presence in these areas will surely increase revenue and truly fulfil the national part of the NRL name.

100% agree

Possibly they don't want to do the hard yards in them cities and perhaps they think one off games in the US are money spinners. Just saying

[gingerjon]

31 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Why does "We’ve exhausted all revenues in Australia" sound awfully like the NRL's next excuse for not expanding (WA or NZII) for another decade or so.

Do they need another excuse? They've already made it crystal clear they've surrendered everywhere where the game isn't already profitably established.

[Tony Angelino]

7 hours ago, The Future is League said:

If Peter V'landys is still in his position the 18th club will be in Queensland. 

It seems he intends to squeeze the AFL as much as he can in Queensland until the pips come out.

A 2nd NRL club in the south island in NZ would be great for NZ Rugby League and the NRL itself

Another Queensland club is probably the less risky option for the NRL compared to Perth or NZ2 and when you factor in the projected population explosion in places like Ipswich and Logan it could tip the balance.

Personally I’d prefer Christchurch and then Perth over another Queensland team.

[The Future is League]

17 minutes ago, Tony Angelino said:

Another Queensland club is probably the less risky option for the NRL compared to Perth or NZ2 and when you factor in the projected population explosion in places like Ipswich and Logan it could tip the balance.

Personally I’d prefer Christchurch and then Perth over another Queensland team.

Peter V'landys is an accountant by profession. Accountants by there very nature don't do risks. I would suggest that the people who want a NRL club in Perth or the South Island of New Zealand increase junior playing numbers and then submit their business plan and in that business plan increase further their plans for an even bigger junior playing base

[Tony Angelino]

6 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Peter V'landys is an accountant by profession. Accountants by there very nature don't do risks. I would suggest that the people who want a NRL club in Perth or the South Island of New Zealand increase junior playing numbers and then submit their business plan and in that business plan increase further their plans for an even bigger junior playing base

I think a wealthy backer willing to underwrite any financial shortfalls for either bid would tick more boxes than junior numbers for the NRL bosses.

[The Future is League]

2 minutes ago, Tony Angelino said:

I think a wealthy backer willing to underwrite any financial shortfalls for either bid would tick more boxes than junior numbers for the NRL bosses.

One of the things that tipped it for the Dolphins was their junior development program

Junior development is the antidote to stop the AFL spreading