RP London Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 19 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said: I will get the elasticated Lord of the Ringsesque phrase in first then. "Arise Men of Rohan," Lad and dad battles should be exploited to the full by our RL media. were the first words spoken in that clip "Courage Trent Merrin, Courage for your friends"... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said: You’re ignoring the impact of the NRLs version of dual reg. I’ll say it again, I think Redcliffe Dolphins would beat Wakefield Trinity 9 times out of 10, just by way of one random match-up. The participation pool in Australia is multiple times larger than ours, it follows naturally that their fringe players will be better than our average. There’s just not enough room for them all in the NRL, how much they get paid in a comp with lower revenues isn’t a measure of their relative value or ability as players to ours. I've not ignored anything, the facts speak for themselves. You choose to ignore them. A salary cap barely a tenth of Super League's speaks for itself and completely contradicts your point. It certainly doesn't make the Queensland Cup the 2nd comp behind the NRL when it is full of average players and has been players that flopped in Super League like Tyrone Roberts. Edited April 21, 2022 by Damien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Damien said: I've not ignored anything, the facts speak for themselves. You choose to ignore them. A salary cap barely a tenth of Super League's speaks for itself and completely contradicts your point. It certainly doesn't make the Queensland Cup the 2nd comp behind the NRL when it is full of average players and has been players that flopped in Super League like Tyrone Roberts. The salary cap of the two competitions means absolutely nothing in terms of what quality there is in the Queensland cup. The standard is better than the championship regardless of the salary cap difference. As stated the talent pool in Australia is way bigger than ours and their second tier players are of a far better quality than ours. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 57 minutes ago, Damien said: Considering the Queensland Cup has a salary cap of only $400,000 (about £230k) and a maximum wage of $30,000 (about £17k) then I find that hard to believe. There are Championship teams with considerably bigger budgets. That's only partially the story. NRL players on minimum contracts $120k (and some much bigger) are playing across the QCup on DR type agreements during the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said: You’re ignoring the impact of the NRLs version of dual reg. I’ll say it again, I think Redcliffe Dolphins would beat Wakefield Trinity 9 times out of 10, just by way of one random match-up. Yes, all NRL players from the parent club's top 30 squad are excluded from the cap which does skew things a bit, although Norths won without any NRL players in the Grand Final team last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Would I be right in assuming then that the Queensland Cup players who are not attached to an NRL club would be part time as they can't be full time players on that cap and maximum wage? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: The salary cap of the two competitions means absolutely nothing in terms of what quality there is in the Queensland cup. The standard is better than the championship regardless of the salary cap difference. As stated the talent pool in Australia is way bigger than ours and their second tier players are of a far better quality than ours. The argument was that the Queensland Cup is a higher level than Super League. Not sure why you are talking about the Championship. However when the better Championship clubs like Leigh and Fev are spending £1 million+ and can easily recruit Queensland Cup players and international NRL players like Joey Leilua so it remains to be seen for me if they could compete. People seem awfully quick to trash Super League when the facts paint a different story. Edited April 21, 2022 by Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Scubby said: That's only partially the story. NRL players on minimum contracts $120k (and some much bigger) are playing across the QCup on DR type agreements during the season. A few play, just as some Super League players play in the Championship. You have 30 man NRL squads, 20 involved on a match day, then you have injuries, suspensions etc. Its simply false to try and make out all these NRL stars are running about every week in the Queensland Cup. The core of a Queensland Cup team is a £230k squad and guys earning a maximum of £17k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I have just gone through the Queensland Cup team lists for this weekend. I watch a fair bit of NRL and these are the names I recognise (although there may well be more who have played NRL) Tyrone Roberts Dunamis Lui Robert Lui Marion Seve Jayden Nikorima Brenko Lee Jordan Pereira Gerard Beale 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 33 minutes ago, Damien said: A few play, just as some Super League players play in the Championship. You have 30 man NRL squads, 20 involved on a match day, then you have injuries, suspensions etc. Its simply false to try and make out all these NRL stars are running about every week in the Queensland Cup. The core of a Queensland Cup team is a £230k squad and guys earning a maximum of £17k. Not all but some will be just like in NSW cup. Ryan Sutton was in NSW Cup rounds 1-4 on probably A$500k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Scubby said: Not all but some will be just like in NSW cup. Ryan Sutton was in NSW Cup rounds 1-4 on probably A$500k No one disputes there are some players, we've said that already. Do you think Ryan Sutton playing makes the competition better than Super League? One swallow doesn't make a summer. Again the odd player doesn't result in this competition that is better than Super League when the maximum wage for everyone else is 17k (in the Queensland Cup). The players who do drop down from NRL clubs are also doing so because they cant get in their NRL team, not outstanding form players. The last Queensland Cup Grand Final had players like Nene McDonald, who is now in he Championship at Leigh, Michael Sio who played for Dewsbury and Halifax and a 33 year old David Mead. If SL teams signed these players other fans would laugh. Edited April 21, 2022 by Damien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I have just gone through the Queensland Cup team lists for this weekend. I watch a fair bit of NRL and these are the names I recognise (although there may well be more who have played NRL) Tyrone Roberts Dunamis Lui Robert Lui Marion Seve Jayden Nikorima Brenko Lee Jordan Pereira Gerard Beale I have just done the same with the NSW team lists this weekend. Again, there may well be more but these are the NRL players I recognise from the team sheets. There are more NRL players in NSW Cup than QLD Cup based on my quick review (and its a 12 team comp and the QLD Cup 14). Matt Ikuvalu Franklin Pele Brayden Musgrove Zac Cini Jordan Rankin Tex Hoy Mitch Rein Jack Johns Bryce Cartwright Jayden Okunbor Albert Hopoate Christian Crichton Robert Jennings Jarrod Croker Sean O'Sullivan Sam Williams Matt Frawley Emre Guler Hudson Young Kevin Naiqama Jaxson Paulo Oliver Gildart Tyrone Peachey Siliva Havili "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Saint 1 said: QCup is a better standard than Championship. It isn't better than Super League, but the top end of QCup probably isn't far away from the bottom end of Super League, regardless of budgets. As I asked earlier. Do we know if the QLD Cup (and NSW Cup for that matter) are part time players outside of those registered to NRL clubs? Certainly the salary cap and maximum wage would suggest they must be part time. The reason I think it is important when comparing leagues - yes, the budget may not always matter but being full time professional as a club matters a lot when comparing standards irrelevant of player pools/talent available. The simple fact of being full time professionals will raise the bar. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dunbar said: As I asked earlier. Do we know if the QLD Cup (and NSW Cup for that matter) are part time players outside of those registered to NRL clubs? Certainly the salary cap and maximum wage would suggest they must be part time. The reason I think it is important when comparing leagues - yes, the budget may not always matter but being full time professional as a club matters a lot when comparing standards irrelevant of player pools/talent available. The simple fact of being full time professionals will raise the bar. Players are part time in both the NSW Cup and QLD Cup away from the NRL players. As such I dont see why people would automatically assume these teams are even better than Leigh or Fev, when in itself the top end of the Championship isn't much different than the bottom of Super League. I have no doubt Queensland Cup teams are better than most of the Championship, certainly those that are part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) @Dunbar From a players point of view and the last Queensland Cup player of the year: But it was even worse for the part-time players in NSW Cup and QLD Cup, who had their competitions disrupted and were forced to make some tough decisions. For Berrell, that tough decision was taking some time away from football in 2020, before preparing himself for one last crack at getting noticed in 2021 - and that's exactly what he was able to do. In a standout campaign for Wynnum-Manly, Berrell won the Q-Cup Player of the Year award, and took his side all the way to the grand final, where they eventually fell to Norths Devils in a thrilling decider. “Yeah it was tough (dealing with COVID) – I think since coming down here, I’ve realised it was a bit worse in NSW," Berrell said. "For me, it was a blessing – it sort of gave me a chance to refresh the footy side of things and go back to work on myself and get myself ready to go and have the year I had. "I went out with the intent last year to have the best possible year I could, otherwise if nothing was to have happened, I was thinking about giving it up. "I’ve obviously got a family now, my two kids and my partner, so it’s hard playing in reserve grade comp and working all day as well. https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/nrl-rookie-spotlight-deflating-setbacks-almost-saw-jayden-berrell-give-nrl-dream/wqvnfqoannf0p8hcqmwwpyof Edited April 21, 2022 by Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 I simply haven't seen enough of either QLD Cup or NSW Cup to comment on its relative strength compared to Super League or Championship. But I think the full time/part time equation is important because we all know how much standards improve in full time environments even with the same underlying players/talent. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hull Kingston Bronco Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Happy to agree to disagree, I’ve lived in Australia and seen plenty of NSW and QLD Cup games and reckon it’s Super League standard. You don’t, cool, but it ain’t worth all these words Getting back to the real point, I think several good NRL assistant coach gigs followed by a full leadership role in the State Cup, where you transform a long-term struggler into a title winner, is a really good background for a SL coaching hire. Especially if you’re a club planning for the mid-term rather than an instant bounce, with a great junior player base that needs development. It’s a good strategic hire, rather than the “obvious” big name coach move a club with Leeds’ budget could have made. 1 Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 A lot of fans keep saying they wanted a big coaching name - when was the last time a successful current NRL head coach came over to coach a Super League club? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: A lot of fans keep saying they wanted a big coaching name - when was the last time a successful current NRL head coach came over to coach a Super League club? Well it doesn't happen any more so it's hard to say. But the ex-NRL coaches who have come over have underwhelmed - Royce Simmons and Daniel Anderson did OK I suppose. Beyond that you're reaching back to Monie, Graham Murray, Brian Smith and Lowe for people who really excelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 He has no plans to bring his uncle onboard. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/61176005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, The Future is League said: He has no plans to bring his uncle onboard. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/61176005 I think that's fair enough. Whenever I have got a new job, I have very rarely brought my uncle into the business with me. 1 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I think that's fair enough. Whenever I have got a new job, I have very rarely brought my uncle into the business with me. He might if things don't go to plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Bath Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said: You’re ignoring the impact of the NRLs version of dual reg. I’ll say it again, I think Redcliffe Dolphins would beat Wakefield Trinity 9 times out of 10, just by way of one random match-up. The participation pool in Australia is multiple times larger than ours, it follows naturally that their fringe players will be better than our average. There’s just not enough room for them all in the NRL, how much they get paid in a comp with lower revenues isn’t a measure of their relative value or ability as players to ours. Redcliffe Dolphins have only won 1 game this season and are two off the bottom of Q Cup table. If you are right then God help Wakefield Trinity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graveyard johnny Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, The Future is League said: He has no plans to bring his uncle onboard. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/61176005 so rohan smith has no plans to involve tony smith or brian smith? - shame- the 3 smiths could have got morrissey involved and then sang "headingley knows im miserable now " Edited April 21, 2022 by graveyard johnny 2 see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 5 hours ago, The Future is League said: He might if things don't go to plan His uncle was one of the finest Rugby League brains the game has ever produced. For many years he was the guest expert on ABC radio`s Saturday (10hrs) and Sunday (6hrs) every week of the season - which I rarely ever missed, a man of profound insight and knowledge of the game and I`ll guarantee still a keen student of Rugby League. If the young Leeds coach does not have long conversations, even if only by phone, about current trends and tactics in the game, I`d be very surprised. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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