More Opportunities For League In New Zealand.

[The Rocket]

We don`t get any ratings figures for League in NZ but came across these calamitous figures for NZ super rugby today. 

2015 - 2019   average ~ 190k

2021   average  140k

2022 (so far) 103k

The main reason given is that the public are sick of seeing the same 5 teams play each other over and over with this situation unlikely to improve once the largely uncompetitive Oz super rugby union teams enter the competition, which going on last years ratings only showed a further slide in the ratings.

An interesting side note was that the highest rating match of the year - double the average - was RTS`s debut, and you tell me they don`t follow League in N.Z.

We have a country here crying out for more exposure of our wonderful 18 team competition ( one more Kiwi side ) and all the variety of a competition that has that many teams entails.

[Eddie]

Are these games on FTA or pay channels? Either way though, a 103k average for a rugby union mad country of 5m is pitiful. 

[StandOffHalf]

The only Super Rugby (SupeRugby) game I've watched this year was RTS's debut, heehee.

The move of the South African teams to the Celtic League/Pro-14 has taken away clubs that the NZ teams would have found tougher to beat.

Not surprised really that the numbers are trending downwards. It's understandable that fans zone out when there are loop fixtures.

I'd love for there to be an NRL team in Wellington, but I'm not sure how interested the NRL are in setting up there.

[The Rocket]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Are these games on FTA or pay channels? Either way though, a 103k average for a rugby union mad country of 5m is pitiful. 

Didn`t say Eddie but with only the 5 Kiwi sides and the Islander team ( I forgot about them in my OP ) that`s only 3 games per week, so they may well all be on FTA, hard to imagine otherwise, but if not, a combination of Sky NZ and FTA.

Either way it`s bad and looks like getting worse.

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Are these games on FTA or pay channels? Either way though, a 103k average for a rugby union mad country of 5m is pitiful. 

Just found out they are only on Pay Tv, sound familiar, but with a delayed FTA replay of one match the following day at midday.

This is locked in until 2025 with a broadcast deal only worth about $80m (NZ) per annum and that includes the All-Blacks matches. That`s roughly $14m Kiwi dollars per team ( not including the All-Blacks ) Oz`s NRL deal is about $ AU23m per team. No wonder the Kiwis are desperate for private equity dollars, but once they burn through that - what then.

[Damien]

I think RL has only scratched the surface in NZ with little investment. We've seen what even a slight bit of success can do when the Warriors have done well, when NZ have done well and obviously with the growth of Tonga (and the effect on the Tongan diaspora in NZ).

If the NRL really went for it in NZ, and lets face it with what they get from the TV deal in NZ it is just putting back in what they get out of it, then I think the results could be huge. This with a North island NRL team in the Warriors and a South Island NRL team just makes sense and would boost the sport in NZ with development focussed across the country.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

I'd assume their interest in international Union trumps all to a massive degree 

How about the NRL having for that market too and supporting a meaningful and regular international league scene?

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I'd assume their interest in international Union trumps all to a massive degree 

How about the NRL having for that market too and supporting a meaningful and regular international league scene?

 

I've seen plenty of articles the last few years that indicates that interest in the All Blacks and international RU is waning. Last years Bledisloe match at Eden Park was no where a sell-out. On the back of this I remember seeing people interviewed on if they were going and the interesting thing is how everyone said they loved the All Blacks but hardly anyone was going and few could even name a player. All supposedly ardent fans but absolutely clueless about them.

[The storm]

If the kangaroos, kiwis tonga and samoa could tour on a regular basis our international game would more than match union

Then we also have fiji, PNG, france and wales who would be a match for each other

[Pie tries]

5 hours ago, The storm said:

If the kangaroos, kiwis tonga and samoa could tour on a regular basis our international game would more than match union

Then we also have fiji, PNG, france and wales who would be a match for each other

Yep Intl. RL is the missing link…

[RayCee]

For a second NZ franchise I'd go for the South Is not because I live here but Christchurch has a solid RL following. Games could taken around the South Island too. Wellington would cover a large catchment area but capital cities are not the easiest markets to succeed in.

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, Damien said:

I think RL has only scratched the surface in NZ with little investment. We've seen what even a slight bit of success can do when the Warriors have done well, when NZ have done well and obviously with the growth of Tonga (and the effect on the Tongan diaspora in NZ).

If the NRL really went for it in NZ, and lets face it with what they get from the TV deal in NZ it is just putting back in what they get out of it, then I think the results could be huge. This with a North island NRL team in the Warriors and a South Island NRL team just makes sense and would boost the sport in NZ with development focussed across the country.

A 2nd NRL club based on the South Island would be a huge boost for Rugby League their

[Futtocks]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

everyone said they loved the All Blacks but hardly anyone was going and few could even name a player

Reminds me of "Six Nations Fever" in the UK.

[RayCee]

The All Blacks have been an institution in NZ since 1905. It put little NZ on the sporting map. Probably the last decade I have heard less about them. The NZ mens cricket team (Black Caps) is just about as popular now. What NZ RU got wrong was undermining the provincial game in favour of Super 12 with Aus and SA. With less interest in the provincial  game and Super 12 somewhat losing its way, RU as a part of NZ life is not the same anymore. 
 

The lower levels of any sport need to be protected. NZ RL has still some club loyalty but lower levels need nurturing. Competitions like the Queensland & NSW below the NRL are hugely important. The UK has fairly strong lower level comps but recent funding cuts could hurt the game long term if more isn’t done In that area. France is in trouble at lower levels and the two SL outfits will hopefully raise interest in the game there. 

[The Rocket]

I can put this in here because it`s all about League, even despite appearing in a popular on-line union web-site.

Super Round flop the latest copycat move chasing NRL's tail (rugbypass.com)

" The Super Round letdown is the latest gimmick borrowed from the NRL that has failed to take off for Super Rugby’s administrators in search of answers for a revival of the competition.

Melbourne was a flop, there is no way around it.

More telling was the turnout for NRL’s Anzac Day fixture on Monday between the Storm and Warriors at the exact same stadium that drew in as many fans in one game as the entire three days of the Super Round.

The NRL has seemingly come out of the pandemic stronger than ever while Super Rugby Pacific has become ever more irrelevant. 

The bright lights of the NRL are intriguing. In many ways it feels bigger. Australia has a host of new, magnificent stadiums to play in and the fan turn out has been consistent.

Those aforementioned players would play in a competition where the weekly fixtures actually matter, compared to Super Rugby Pacific’s political correctness where every team basically makes the playoffs. What exactly is the point of the regular season in Super Rugby Pacific?

The NRL as an entertainment product has taken the lead over the last decade, but the gulf is widening. The narratives build quickly to add suspense, theatre and pressure, all culminating in interest and fan engagement ."

 

 

[Dallas Mead]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I can put this in here because it`s all about League, even despite appearing in a popular on-line union web-site.

Super Round flop the latest copycat move chasing NRL's tail (rugbypass.com)

" The Super Round letdown is the latest gimmick borrowed from the NRL that has failed to take off for Super Rugby’s administrators in search of answers for a revival of the competition.

Melbourne was a flop, there is no way around it.

More telling was the turnout for NRL’s Anzac Day fixture on Monday between the Storm and Warriors at the exact same stadium that drew in as many fans in one game as the entire three days of the Super Round.

The NRL has seemingly come out of the pandemic stronger than ever while Super Rugby Pacific has become ever more irrelevant. 

The bright lights of the NRL are intriguing. In many ways it feels bigger. Australia has a host of new, magnificent stadiums to play in and the fan turn out has been consistent.

Those aforementioned players would play in a competition where the weekly fixtures actually matter, compared to Super Rugby Pacific’s political correctness where every team basically makes the playoffs. What exactly is the point of the regular season in Super Rugby Pacific?

The NRL as an entertainment product has taken the lead over the last decade, but the gulf is widening. The narratives build quickly to add suspense, theatre and pressure, all culminating in interest and fan engagement ."

 

 

Excellent to see, always nice to see Union struggling somewhere.  Sadly not here in the UK but I’ll take any win!

[The Rocket]

On 22/04/2022 at 20:46, Damien said:

I've seen plenty of articles the last few years that indicates that interest in the All Blacks and international RU is waning. Last years Bledisloe match at Eden Park was no where a sell-out. On the back of this I remember seeing people interviewed on if they were going and the interesting thing is how everyone said they loved the All Blacks but hardly anyone was going and few could even name a player. All supposedly ardent fans but absolutely clueless about them.

I read an article the other day by the boss of NZ union who said the Kiwis may never host another WC ever again as there just isn`t the money in the country to run one. There was also an interesting comment attached to the article I posted yesterday positing that in the greater scheme of things union may have no future in that country, certainly not like it is now, and implying that NRL will take over given its` money and proximity.

The way that person posted was that union was big and growing enough elsewhere to be able to afford to jettison NZ and OZ. I wonder what the implications world-wide for both codes would be if we did come to dominate Australasia.

[The Great Dane]

The strange thing about Super Rugby is that the split SR Australia and SR Aotearoa competitions were both reasonably successful in comparison to SR Pacific, Super 15, or 18. But despite that the ARU and NZRU both seem to be determined to persist with a Trans-Tasman comp that nobody cares about.

It's obvious why the NZRU wants to continue with SR Pacific, they want access to the Australian market, but what makes absolutely no sense is why the ARU continues to persist with SR when 20 years of it in it's various forms has almost totally crippled the sport in this country.

If they had any balls they could save RU in Australia by telling NZ and World Rugby to stick it, building a humble national league, and lightly modifying the rules to get rid of some of the nonsense and incentivise running rugby to compete with the product on the field in the NRL and AFL.

Unfortunately for them they don't have any balls, and for whatever reasons seem to believe that they can't exist without NZ, when in reality NZ is what's killing them at this point.

[The Rocket]

Great opportunity in New Zealand today:

The Warriors vs Rabbitohs Magic Round match will be shown live on channel 3 in NZ, huge deal since it’s one of the big FTA channels and the warriors games are usually shown on the less watched FTA channel Prime. Plus it’s on straight after the news so should get big audience.

I read another tweet related to this that said that not even super rugby gets this.

 

[fighting irish]

35 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Great opportunity in New Zealand today:

The Warriors vs Rabbitohs Magic Round match will be shown live on channel 3 in NZ, huge deal since it’s one of the big FTA channels and the warriors games are usually shown on the less watched FTA channel Prime. Plus it’s on straight after the news so should get big audience.

I read another tweet related to this that said that not even super rugby gets this.

 

I think there should be a policy of firm and steady growth into New Zealand.

A second NZ club (NRL) would be a great boost for the game. 

[RL Sonja]

On 28/04/2022 at 01:18, The Great Dane said:

The strange thing about Super Rugby is that the split SR Australia and SR Aotearoa competitions were both reasonably successful in comparison to SR Pacific, Super 15, or 18. But despite that the ARU and NZRU both seem to be determined to persist with a Trans-Tasman comp that nobody cares about.

It's obvious why the NZRU wants to continue with SR Pacific, they want access to the Australian market, but what makes absolutely no sense is why the ARU continues to persist with SR when 20 years of it in it's various forms has almost totally crippled the sport in this country.

If they had any balls they could save RU in Australia by telling NZ and World Rugby to stick it, building a humble national league, and lightly modifying the rules to get rid of some of the nonsense and incentivise running rugby to compete with the product on the field in the NRL and AFL.

Unfortunately for them they don't have any balls, and for whatever reasons seem to believe that they can't exist without NZ, when in reality NZ is what's killing them at this point.

A bit more “union will be great in the future” if… 

[Scubby]

On 27/04/2022 at 13:43, The Rocket said:

I read an article the other day by the boss of NZ union who said the Kiwis may never host another WC ever again as there just isn`t the money in the country to run one. There was also an interesting comment attached to the article I posted yesterday positing that in the greater scheme of things union may have no future in that country, certainly not like it is now, and implying that NRL will take over given its` money and proximity.

The way that person posted was that union was big and growing enough elsewhere to be able to afford to jettison NZ and OZ. I wonder what the implications world-wide for both codes would be if we did come to dominate Australasia.

Basically the unpicking of the private school system in Australasia will be the undoing of Union in those countries. When NRL scouts come in and outbid union threefold for juniors - what can they do? 

[The Rocket]

29 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Basically the unpicking of the private school system in Australasia will be the undoing of Union in those countries. When NRL scouts come in and outbid union threefold for juniors - what can they do? 

It`s been in the papers a lot over here lately, in the comments section attached to one article, one ` old boy` demanded that these boys be made to sign contracts stipulating they can`t play League for three years upon graduation. That one really cracked me up. Another asked why do " our " schools waste all this money of such ingrates. Typical.

As I pointed out in reply in the comments section; it`s incredible how these products of the bastion of the free market system can so quickly abandon free market principles when it doesn`t suit them and secondly, there is one reason and one reason alone these private schools have scouts prowling the Rugby League fields of western Sydney and throwing around scholarships, because they can`t field competitive union teams in their own right anymore due to the pressure to focus on academic achievement and the different demographic this is consequentially attracting.

Having said all that, having clubs like the immaculately presented Trent Robinson`s Roosters holding coaching sessions at schools like Kings, one of the more expensive, doesn`t hurt either. Yes and then there`s the money.

Edited May 14, 2022 by The Rocket

[The Great Dane]

53 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Basically the unpicking of the private school system in Australasia will be the undoing of Union in those countries. When NRL scouts come in and outbid union threefold for juniors - what can they do? 

To be honest the AFL is doing more damage in this regard than RL ever could. Through no fault of RL's mind you.

In the last twenty years they've wriggled their way into most of the private school systems in Australia in a way that RL is incapable of doing because of discrimination. As a result they've provided an alternate to kids in the private schools that didn't exist in most places until very recently. That has more or less halved RU's participation in said schools, which has totally thrown their junior system into chaos.

Add in the NRL, and to a lesser extent French and Japanese rugby, coming in and poaching most of the best of the rest and the vast majority of juniors whom thirty years ago would have ended up playing RU are ending up in other sports or overseas.

It's no coincidence that the AFL's growth in the eastern states this century has centred around traditionally strong RU regions (Northern and Eastern Sydney, the posh parts of Brisbane, Canberra, etc), as RU's decline has more or less mirrored the AFL's growth.

Edited May 14, 2022 by The Great Dane

[The Great Dane]

31 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I'd love to imagine football might have peaked but people are going to happily watch a World Cup in stadiums built by slaves and noone, not the sponsors players or fans are going to care. 

Yeah, that's a weird one isn't it...