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1 minute ago, theswanmcr said:

As others have said I think this is down to it not being a proper international rather than where it is being played.

You could play this exhibition game anywhere you like and it still won’t get big crowds.

England Knights played Jamaica at Headingley with almost zero promotion at got over 7k in.

The opposition and status of the game will be something, but there won't be many fans from elsewhere travelling to Warrington for this one I think.

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7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

 

This in a town they have chosen to host 4 world cup fixtures in

They have also hidden an actual international - England v France women - as a curtain raiser when they have stand alone women's World Cup fixtures to promote. 

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

England Knights played Jamaica at Headingley with almost zero promotion at got over 7k in.

The opposition and status of the game will be something, but there won't be many fans from elsewhere travelling to Warrington for this one I think.

Leeds to be fair is really the only place that will consistently pull a crowd for anything - and why we are playing the ‘neutral’ WC semi-final at Elland Road.

Even that Knights match though is more of a proper international than playing against a combined nations team. 

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18 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Leeds to be fair is really the only place that will consistently pull a crowd for anything - and why we are playing the ‘neutral’ WC semi-final at Elland Road.

Even that Knights match though is more of a proper international than playing against a combined nations team. 

Leeds is the home of Rugby League and should be the go to place to host any mid season Internationals 

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

England Knights played Jamaica at Headingley with almost zero promotion at got over 7k in.

The opposition and status of the game will be something, but there won't be many fans from elsewhere travelling to Warrington for this one I think.

Indeed, England Knights v an actual country is a far more attributive proposition than England v the Combined All Stars. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to watch the latter. 

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Ticket sales look, frankly, appalling. I’m guessing the first couple of rows are not available for sale and possibly the back rows of seats behind the sticks. Otherwise, it looks as though the number sold is more likely to be in the hundreds than the thousands. 

Most would agree that England should play a mid-season game. Much like the original Exiles concept, any general interest it had seems to have dropped off in year two. I think the Combined Nations had a place in 2021, less so this year when restrictions aren’t what they were, there’s an actual womens international on at the same venue this year and there’s an actual international between France and Wales that’s been disrespected by The RFL allowing the picking of the French captain. 

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29 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

If England men played France/Wales/A Proper Country, would we still have the same debate over ticket sales because people wouldn't buy because the game wouldn't be "competitive" enough?

Most likely. 

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30 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

If England men played France/Wales/A Proper Country, would we still have the same debate over ticket sales because people wouldn't buy because the game wouldn't be "competitive" enough?

Then take the game to a market location where the people attending were just keen to watch some entertaining international sport.

Bristol or Newcastle or London or Leicester.

 

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11 hours ago, Eddie said:

Indeed, England Knights v an actual country is a far more attributive proposition than England v the Combined All Stars. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to watch the latter. 

Playing 2 fixtures, England v France and England v All Stars would be a nice compromise. We have had a full time coach for over 2 years, Wane is averaging less than 1 game every 12 months, he is going to be rusty and out of touch by the time the World Cup comes around coaching only 3 games in almost 3 years.

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7 hours ago, Scubby said:

Then take the game to a market location where the people attending were just keen to watch some entertaining international sport.

Bristol or Newcastle or London or Leicester.

 

It's pretty clear there isn't the budget at the RFL to do something like that and do it well.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

It's pretty clear there isn't the budget at the RFL to do something like that and do it well.

But it could have been part of the original RLWC marketing budget/strategy. The competition is being underwritten by the same organisation after all. 

York is being used for women's WC fixtures and Newcastle/Coventry for men's. It really isn't that difficult to produce joined up thinking and create a RLWC marketing road show in summer is it?

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I live in surrey, so for me to travel up north to watch england it would have to be vs a proper country not a made up team. If they had England v allstars,  and say knights vs Ireland on same day, it would be the knights fixture I would go to.

If England want proper mid season game then honestly I would have a 2 week mid season break, and have England travel to NZ and play either the Kiwi's or Tonga (or PNG).  After all its more the having a meaningful fixture than where its played, and having England vs PNG / Kiwis v Tonga in some mid season international double header would be much better preperation I think.  Of course the SL clubs would not agree to a 2 week international window break, so again RL is screwed.

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It's pretty clear there isn't the budget at the RFL to do something like that and do it well.

The problem is though that this seems set up for failure now. Its a paradox that in most heartland grounds, anything less than a near sellout would be deemed a failure, yet the location of the venues themselves mean that they almost certainly won't reach that level. 

"Non-heartland" grounds have the advantage that the bar of success for them is lower so they can get away with crowds that in the heartlands would be deemed poor.

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39 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The problem is though that this seems set up for failure now. Its a paradox that in most heartland grounds, anything less than a near sellout would be deemed a failure, yet the location of the venues themselves mean that they almost certainly won't reach that level. 

"Non-heartland" grounds have the advantage that the bar of success for them is lower so they can get away with crowds that in the heartlands would be deemed poor.

I don't really disagree with anything you, or Scubby for that matter, have said - except that a low crowd outside the heartlands is judged harshly as we know because when we have them (rarer and rarer to try now) then the response is always to count the empty seats.

On the one hand, I am very sympathetic about the fact that the RFL has no money and therefore doesn't want to spend money on creating a decent international fixture at an exciting venue and then promoting it properly.

On the other, the RFL has boxed itself into a corner by being utterly focused on pleasing some old men in the 'heartlands' after several decades of at least trying to balance expansion and 'inward' investment. It's to their shame that they got scared of the modern world and ran away from it at just the wrong time.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I don't really disagree with anything you, or Scubby for that matter, have said - except that a low crowd outside the heartlands is judged harshly as we know because when we have them (rarer and rarer to try now) then the response is always to count the empty seats.

On the one hand, I am very sympathetic about the fact that the RFL has no money and therefore doesn't want to spend money on creating a decent international fixture at an exciting venue and then promoting it properly.

On the other, the RFL has boxed itself into a corner by being utterly focused on pleasing some old men in the 'heartlands' after several decades of at least trying to balance expansion and 'inward' investment. It's to their shame that they got scared of the modern world and ran away from it at just the wrong time.

Yeah its sad really how the sport has gone backwards and yet still chooses things that objectively make no sense. 

England games in smaller grounds in the North West seem to consistently pull disappointing crowds. They don't get many people travelling from outside the town itself and there isn't enough interest or raw population to compensate.

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Personally, I rather like the CNAS concept - as a re-imagining and continuation of the Other Nationalities invitational concept. It is something that that was part of the fabric of the sport, and I am rather glad that it has been resurrected. I find the antipathy and coldness towards it rather odd.

Having a double-header with the England Ladies seems a good idea.

Cap club selections for CNAS at 2 or 3, and respect the Wales vs France test match by not selecting any players involved in that.

The French and England squads shouldn't result in fewer or no players from clubs being selected for the CNAS.

I'm looking forward to the game!

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It's pretty clear there isn't the budget at the RFL to do something like that and do it well.

But we have the budget to employ Wane to coach full time, I’m not sure who it is that he coaches day in day out, but it’s a massive waste of the limited money we do have to employ him full time 

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19 hours ago, crashmon said:

I'd pay to watch England play a proper international vs another proper country (yes even Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Lebanon etc) then vs some made up team.  For me the game is as pointless as a England football vs Premier League all stars type game, but you would never see the England football team demeaning themselves in a game like that.

Here we go again,

If Football did this, if football did that, football don't bother doing this or that, the mods shunt talk of union away immediately, it should be also done with football on this platform.

Anyway, the coach of the England team you know the guy who is responsible for preparing the team for the WC expressed his desire to play a game against opposition he considers would be more of benefit to him and his charges than the teams that you mention plus France, save for arranging to take the team down under or having a Southern Hemisphere National team visit these shores the All Stars undoubtedly, indisputedly, unquestionably, undeniably offer a better class of opposition.

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22 hours ago, Scubby said:

It is devaluing the England shirt, play an international FFS. Take it seriously.

You obviously will not be taking it seriously, just like the 1895 cup it is a waste of time in your opinion, but will be watching both and no doubt sticking your oar in even though you are not interested in the slightest, because you tell us you are a rugby league fan!

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19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

but will be watching both and no doubt sticking your oar in even though you are not interested in the slightest, because you tell us you are a rugby league fan!

Imagine.

A rugby league fan watching rugby league matches.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Rugby league needs an international structure and recognised international windows.

Even for now if it was a Test Series against France I'd rather watch that. Ideally would like to see autumn internationals and a European competition.

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