Oldham

[paulwalker71]

I was just watching a piece on BBC Breakfast about Oldham Athletic getting relegated down to non-league.

Inevitably it focussed on the gradual decline over a 20 year period - and of course the rugby club has had a decline which mirrors it. Remember the Oldham Bears were in Super League back in those days!

The football fans are agitating for new ownership because it won't be a given that they'll bounce back - plenty of other teams have fallen down that trapdoor and not come back.

My question to the Oldham RLFC fans here is whether there is now any possibility that the football and rugby clubs could get together, share the ground and for both teams this might be a new beginning?

Or could the local council bang their heads together and get them to work together?

Because, right now, it doesn't look like Oldham RLFC are going anywhere

[Harry Stottle]

30 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I was just watching a piece on BBC Breakfast about Oldham Athletic getting relegated down to non-league.

Inevitably it focussed on the gradual decline over a 20 year period - and of course the rugby club has had a decline which mirrors it. Remember the Oldham Bears were in Super League back in those days!

The football fans are agitating for new ownership because it won't be a given that they'll bounce back - plenty of other teams have fallen down that trapdoor and not come back.

My question to the Oldham RLFC fans here is whether there is now any possibility that the football and rugby clubs could get together, share the ground and for both teams this might be a new beginning?

Or could the local council bang their heads together and get them to work together?

Because, right now, it doesn't look like Oldham RLFC are going anywhere

Wasn't this done previously where the roughyeds played out of Boundary Park but the football club did something that ousted them?

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

A 3G itch would bar Athletic from returning to the FL, as they have a ban on them. Harrogate had to dig theirs up and put turf down when they were promoted.

[Davo5]

46 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

A 3G itch would bar Athletic from returning to the FL, as they have a ban on them. Harrogate had to dig theirs up and put turf down when they were promoted.

I’m sure SB is a 3G pitch salesman,as installing one is his answer to all the games woes.

[rlno1]

Shouldn't the RFL be making Oldham an area of priority rather then losing it to the game. 

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Shouldn't the RFL be making Oldham an area of priority rather then losing it to the game. 

That would make sense, so of course it’s not an area of priority. 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

I’m sure SB is a 3G pitch salesman,as installing one is his answer to all the games woes.

There are plenty of ways a club can generate revenue streams. I'm not sure a 3g is the answer in the vast majority of cases and I certainly think SL clubs should aspire to be aiming a little higher than hiring out a 3g pitch at £25 a go.

Yet every time a ground is mentioned there it is, install a 3g pitch. Its as much as a certainty as BP mentioning Sean McGuire.

[Exiled red]

The football club that is flat broke should invest thousands it doesn't have on installing an artificial pitch which it would have to rip up at even greater cost should they be able to bounce back in the near future.

 

OK.

[OriginalMrC]

Like many areas you'd think sports clubs would work together to help build up their clubs together. It doesn't work like that though as self interest comes into play. I suspect Oldham Football club would merely see Oldham RLFC as a way of generating a bit of revenue for themselves. Coventry Bears were treated like that by Coventry Rugby so had no chance to grow. Unless you can generate your own revenue you are stuffed 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

25 minutes ago, Damien said:

There are plenty of ways a club can generate revenue streams. I'm not sure a 3g is the answer in the vast majority of cases and I certainly think SL clubs should aspire to be aiming a little higher than hiring out a 3g pitch at £25 a go.

Yet every time a ground is mentioned there it is, install a 3g pitch. Its as much as a certainty as BP mentioning Sean McGuire.

A few years ago Dewsbury installed 3x 3g pitches (a full and 2x 5-a-side size) on 'their' land to rent out and look how that's boosted them......

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Rams minimum is £50 in peak time for5 a side.  So say a team trains on their full size pitch 2 times a week and match day.  

Thats 90×4 (6 till 10 pm) = 1080 from weekdays plus weekends 10-10 the day you arent playing. Thats another £1080 in one day. 

£2160 x 50 weeks  (taking out the days its closed for christmas etc) . Thats over £100,000 plus all the takings from the bar,  the schools programmes you can use it for. Plus value of perimeter advertising raises as people are seeing it every day. 

Now I dont think Widnes keep the money as it is owned by the council but in principle, a 3g pitch can provide a huge chunk of change.  

 

Yeah, Dewsbury are rolling in it.....

[Exiled red]

4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Why dont you learn to read? Did I not say that I dont expect the club in its current form to still exist?  Oh wait yes I did.

Noone with a brain is buying a worthless ltd company with zero assets.  

Any serious investor would only care about getting the ground of Blitz then starting again.  If you Did have the ground, you would sweat the asset properly.  

Mac being the most recent example.  

 

Yes I can read thanks.

So the club goes to the wall and restarts further down the pyramid like Macclesfield or Bury.

Assuming they are still able to play at boundary park under your scenario the first thing any new owners should do is spend half a million quid on an artificial pitch so the now part time football team can ground share with the part time rugby league team?

I'm sure that will go down well with the long list of creditors that oldham are likely to have.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Rams minimum is £50 in peak time for5 a side.  So say a team trains on their full size pitch 2 times a week and match day.  

Thats 90×4 (6 till 10 pm) = 1080 from weekdays plus weekends 10-10 the day you arent playing. Thats another £1080 in one day. 

£2160 x 50 weeks  (taking out the days its closed for christmas etc) . Thats over £100,000 plus all the takings from the bar,  the schools programmes you can use it for. Plus value of perimeter advertising raises as people are seeing it every day. 

Now I dont think Widnes keep the money as it is owned by the council but in principle, a 3g pitch can provide a huge chunk of change.  

 

Yes I'm sure it would work like that because its not like there aren't a glut of alternative options available that have plenty of availability already that are sat unused. I would be amazed if any 3g pitch is fully booked 6-10pm and then 10am-10pm at weekends. In fact as I used to coach kids Football and would frequently book 3g pitches I know how easy it is to get the availability you need, even at very short notice.

So now you are building a 3g pitch and a bar (I mean a bar can get plenty of income in other ways anyway regardless of a 3g pitch but we'll ignore that). I presume there are installation cost involved to all of this and maintenance costs by an outside company (not like a grass pitch that you can do much with in house). Then you get the staffing costs.

I think your figures are way off but I cant be bothered arguing hypotheticals. If despite full constant availability all you can come up with is £100k with absolutely no costs then that isn't a very compelling argument.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Damien

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

 Are they making more or less than they otherwise would have ?

There was also this thing called covid.  3g pitches will expand purely as pressure on space continues and clubs in all codes seek revenue streams. 

Your figures are fanciful because (and this is by no means a complete list)

- the pitches are not fully booked 

- they assume no costs - maintenance, wages, electricity etc

- VAT

- initial set up costs and likely on going loan repayments

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes I'm sure it would work like that because its not like there aren't a glut of alternative options available that have plenty of availability already that are sat unused. I would be amazed if any 3g pitch is fully booked 6-10pm and then 10am-10pm at weekends. In fact as I used to coach kids Football and would frequently book 3g pitches I know how easy it is to get the availability you need, even at very short notice.

So now you are building a 3g pitch and a bar (I mean a bar can get plenty of income in other ways anyway regardless of a 3g pitch but we'll ignore that). I presume there are installation cost involved to all of this, maintenance costs by an outside company (not like a grass pitch that you can do much with in house). Then you get the staffing costs.

I think your figures are way off but I cant be bothered arguing hypotheticals. If despite full constant availability all you can come up with is £100k with absolutely no costs then that isn't a very compelling argument.

Absolutely re bookings. Looking at Dewsbury's pitches this coming weekend a 5 a side pitch is available on all 26 of the available 1 hr slots and the 11-a side pitch on 10 of the possible 14 slots........

 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Absolutely re bookings. Looking at Dewsbury's pitches this coming weekend a 5 a side pitch is available on all 26 of the available 1 hr slots and the 11-a side pitch on 10 of the possible 14 slots........

 

Exactly.

Look I've nothing against 3g pitches but for me their place for a club is part of their training complex/setup that they can use for all their teams and they can rent out from that. Far more practicable and cheaper to run that way too. It sounds like Dewsbury have the right idea.

The idea that a club should focus on a 3g pitch as part of a stadium build to provide revenue seems just seems a little amateurish and small time to me. It certainly isn't the financial utopia that is made out on here.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Damien

[Davo5]

24 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes I'm sure it would work like that because its not like there aren't a glut of alternative options available that have plenty of availability already that are sat unused. I would be amazed if any 3g pitch is fully booked 6-10pm and then 10am-10pm at weekends. In fact as I used to coach kids Football and would frequently book 3g pitches I know how easy it is to get the availability you need, even at very short notice.

So now you are building a 3g pitch and a bar (I mean a bar can get plenty of income in other ways anyway regardless of a 3g pitch but we'll ignore that). I presume there are installation cost involved to all of this and maintenance costs by an outside company (not like a grass pitch that you can do much with in house). Then you get the staffing costs.

I think your figures are way off but I cant be bothered arguing hypotheticals. If despite full constant availability all you can come up with is £100k with absolutely no costs then that isn't a very compelling argument.

And with electric prices so cheap nowadays,lighting the pitches until 10pm will bear little cost .

Im all for 3G training pitches,my own amateur club has recently completed a training barn with one but as a main stadium pitch,no thanks.

[Jughead]

Can you really compare the fortunes of Oldham Athletic and Oldham RL? From what I understand, there’s huge differences between the two, Oldham RL living within their means and jumping between the Championship and League One while Oldham Athletic have become a play thing for a very questionable megalomaniac. 

I don’t think they need to come together either. Oldham RL would be best suited getting a long-term lease at a venue that’s Championship standard as flitting between grounds depending on what league they’re in can’t be doing them much good. 

As for 3G pitches, I’m sure the stadium Oldham are in (the one shared with Avro) has a 3G pitch. It’s not Oldham RL’s  afaik. 

[Mumby Magic]

2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Shouldn't the RFL be making Oldham an area of priority rather then losing it to the game. 

Isn't this the responsibility of the club I primarily?

[Tommygilf]

Oldham and Swinton serve as prominent reminders of how fragile clubs are without stadiums

[Damien]

32 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Theres a location element but again, if there wasnt a clear benefit so many clubs wouldnt be doing it.  

We don't see so many doing it. Far more professional clubs have grass pitches than 3g. Even ones that do like Widnes are council owned and have an obligation to their ratepayers to provide community facilities to justify spending millions on a new stadium.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

Isn't this the responsibility of the club I primarily?

Whilst I can understand that argument I don't think RL is strong enough as a sport to let the game wither in places that are strong.

[Damien]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Well in football they cant have them so thats not really a good baromater. This inevitable impacts clubs near the top of national league getting one. Where clubs have the choice and not prevented by risk of tearing it up clubs are putting them down. In league, football rule eliminates Wigan, Hull and Huddersfield from having one. 

Wakey are going for one and I´ll be interested to see what Salford do when they move. It´s the way its going.

On Oldham, I hope the footy club just starts again owned by the fans and they start working with the league side to try and claw that ground back so both can grow together.

So no where near so many.

You don't know what clubs would do, that's absurd. You've not actually not named one that has one. That's not so many be anyone's definition.

For some bizarre reason you seem awfully blinded on this subject and are making sweeping statements with no basis.

[Damien]

51 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

National / National North / National South.(21/22).
Billericay Town @ AGP Arena, Blunts Wall Rd, CM12 9SA. (20/21).
Bradford P A @ Horsfall Stadium , Cemetary Road , Bradford , BD6 2NG.
Bromley , @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.
Dorking Wanderers @ Meadowbank ,Mill Lane, RH4 1DX.
Eastbourn Borough @ Priory Lane, BN23 7QH.
Gloucester City @ Meadow Park, Sudmeadow Rd, Hempsted, GL2 6HS.
Havant & Waterlooville @ Westleigh Park , Martin Rd , Havant , PO9 5TH.
Maidstone United @ The Gallagher Stadium, James Whatman Way, ME14 1LQ.
Oxford City @ Court Place Farm, Marsh Lane, OX3 0NQ.
Slough Town @ Arbour Park, Stoke Rd, SL25AY.
 

Isthmian . (21/22).
AFC Sudbury @ Wardale Williams Stadium, Brundon Lane, CO10 7HN.
Ashford Utd @ Holmelands, Ashford Rd, Kingsnorth, TN26 1NJ.
Aveley @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Barking @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Basingstoke Town @ Hampshire FA Complex, Winklebury Way, Basingstoke, RG23 8BF
Bedfont Sports @ Hatton Rd 3G, Bedfont, TW14 8JA.
Bowers and Pitsea @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE.
Bracknell Town @ Larges Lane, RG12 9AN.
Carshalton Athletic @ War Memorial Sports Gd, Colston Avenue, SM5 2PW.
Cray Wanderers @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.(Bromley FC).
Grays Athletic @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Haringey Borough @ Coles Park Stadium, White Hart Lane. N17 7JN.
Hashtag Utd @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE..
Horsham @ Hop Oast Stadium, off Worthing Rd, RH13 0AX.
Lancing @ Culver Road , Lancing , BN15 9AX.
Margate @ Hartsdown Park, Hartsdown Rd, CT95 5QZ.
Ramsgate @ WW Martin Community Stadium , Prices Avenue , CT11 0AN.
Romford @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Sevenoaks Town @ Mill Lane, BR1 1QQ.
Worthing FC @ 'Woodside', Woodside Rd, BN14 7HQ.

Southern (21/22).
Barwell @ UK Flooring Direct Ground , Kirby Rd , LE9 8FQ.
Beaconsfield Town @ Holloways Park , Windsor Rd , HP9 2SE.
Cirencester @ Corinium Stadium, Kingshill Lane, GL7 1HS.
Coleshill Town @ Pack Meadow, Packington Lane, B46 3JJ.
Dorchester Town @ The Avenue, Weymouth Avenue, DT1 2RY.
Harlow Town @ Barrows Farm,(AKA Harlow Arena),Elizabeth Way,CM19 5BE.
Hendon @ Silver Jubilee Park, Townsend Lane, NW9 7NE.
Hertford @ Hertingfordbury Park , West St , Hertford , SG13 8EZ.
Merthyr Town @ Pennydarren Park, Park Terrace, CF47 8RF.
Redditch Utd @ The Valley, Bromsgrove Rd, B97 4RV.
Rushall Olympic @ Dales Lane, Rushall, WS4 1LJ.
St Ives @ Westwood Road , PE27 6DT.
Tamworth @ The Lamb, Kettlebrook, B77 1AA.
Walton Casuals @ Elmbridge Xcel Sports Hub, Waterside Drive, Walton, KT12 2JG.
Ware @ Wodson Park, Wadesmill Rd, SG12 0UQ.

Northern Premier . (21/22).
Basford Utd @ Mill St P F, Greenwich Avenue, Nottingham, NG6 0LD.
Bedworth Utd @ The Oval, Coventry Rd, CV12 8NN.
Buxton @ Silverlands, SK17 6QH.
Hyde United @ Ewen Fields, Walker Lane, SK14 5PL.
Ilkeston Town @ New Manor Ground , Awsworth Rd , E7 8JF.
Leek Town @ Harrison Park, Macclesfield Rd, Leek, ST13 8LD.
Mickleover FC @ Don Arnott Arena , Station Rd, Mickleover , DE3 9FB.
Morpeth Town @ Craik Park , NE61 2YX.
Scarborough Athletic @ Scarborough Sports Village, 5 Ashburn Rd, YO11 2JW.
Sporting Khalsa @ Aspray Arena, Noose Lane, Willenhall, WV13 3BB.
Stockton Town @ Coverall Stadium , Bishopton Rd West , Stockton on Tees , TS19 0QD.
Sutton Coldfield Town @ Coles Lane, Sutton Coldfield, B72 1NL.
Widnes @ Select Security Stadium, Lower House Lane, Widnes, WA8 7DZ.
Yaxley @ In2itive Park, Leading Drove, PE7 3NA.

That enough of a list? Maybe they are all idiots... 

What a complete waste of your time that was. They aren't professional clubs.

You've also given up trying to name these so many professional sports clubs. After trying to make up clubs in RL you stopped, you named 1 RU club and despite saying you can't use Football as a barometer have now resorted to googling for a raft of amateur Football clubs.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Damien

[Damien]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

I didnt assume no costs. You obviously have to pay to run it and mantain but you also have to maintain a regular pitch.

I am looking at one pitch not múltiple pitches.  So the idea that in oldham you couldnt rent it from 6-10pm three nights a week and then on weekends is ridículous.  

If it wasnt an investment we wouldnt be seeing so many clubs put one down. 

What is ridiculous is you thinking there is this untapped demand for 3g pitches that will see any future pitch constantly booked out. I mean someone on the last page posted availability regarding Dewsbury which you seem to have conveniently ignored.:

2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Absolutely re bookings. Looking at Dewsbury's pitches this coming weekend a 5 a side pitch is available on all 26 of the available 1 hr slots and the 11-a side pitch on 10 of the possible 14 slots........