Less than 20,000 sold for Cup Semi Triple Header it seems

[Rach]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I said this when the triple header was announced...

I am not writing this just to be negative as I like the idea of more events from RL but I strongly feel that the Women's final should be its own event as there is real momentum in the Women's game now and it deserves more than an attendance that is building towards the end of the game as it waits for the men's semi's.

 

Absolutely agree , should be a stand alone event at a smaller ground (Featherstone is an ideal venue )on a day where there are no other pro fixtures and the whole day can be given over to a celebration of the Womens Game .

Junior / youth / Lower league open ages / Masters /  tournaments taking place in the morning  at satellite grounds locally ,winners presentations / pre match games, have a go sessions ,match official development , maybe even some recognition for the early pioneers of the sport at some point ?

All the junior teams receiving free tickets and ensuring that the top SL Players not actually taking in the final are in attendance and 'mingling' as an opportunity for the young uns to meet up close  positive playing  roles models to aspire to in the game .

All building up to a final that is not just an aside to the men's game ...not exactly rocket science ..

[StandOffHalf]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm just waiting for the suggestion of a 1939 retro semi final, with retro kits, no TV, mobile phones or internet and the banning of many other modern forms of entertainment. We could even play it at Odsal or Belle Vue to recreate that 1939 charm. It worked once, surely it would work again.

Bring back retro kits, for one thing...

Advertisements on the rear of shorts is a cheap look on players.

[StandOffHalf]

7 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

It's the RFL approach. Put on an occasion and the fans will come, like all the others. Little to no marketing, no incentives.

100 per cent. You wouldn't know the games were coming up, just from scanning newspapers, sports news, etc.

[StandOffHalf]

6 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

DING DING DING DING DING! We have a winner. 

Just who is the audience for this, aside from the fans of the two clubs? And why is a double/triple header any more appealing that hosting Wigan v Saints in Warrington or Bolton, Huddersfield vs KR at Headingley or Doncaster, and the women's final as part of the men's final?

I think this would be a lot more attractive to attendees and TV viewers.

Ladies final at Wembley on the Beeb as a curtain-raiser would be a bigger stage for them as well.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

29 minutes ago, Rach said:

All building up to a final that is not just an aside to the men's game ...not exactly rocket science ..

I can see why they've gone with this format though. It has created awareness of the women's game amongst the core rugby league fanbase. I don't think we'd be talking about the women's game as much if they weren't attached to the (currently) bigger side of the game (men's side). That's just where it's at at the moment.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

There's lots to be said about the reasoning for why the crowd will most likely come in around the 23k mark - disappointing I think we can all agree. 

And even as a LUFC I have no issue with Elland Rd been described as 'substandard' - it is....compared to many other football grounds. But, I am chuckling to myself here that 38,000 go there every other week and yet apparently every time RL is played there we have this massive 'leg room' crisis, as if that accounts for thousands staying away? And just on the general point ER been substandard - by any metric/measure it is considerably better than any RL ground...which means as a sport we have to rely on football...but in changing the date of the final we now create fixture clashes. So for all the complaining about the stadium, lets be a little more honest here - fans are feeling the pinch, they're most likely spending money on other RL big events (as someone else listed Magic, WC, GF, CCF) so the appeal of these semis, even for many of the fans of the clubs involved, just isn't there. Also not helped by the bigger game of the 2 mens semis having fans needing to travel the furthest - replace that game with Leeds v Cas and it could easily be 30,000 and it been at ER hailed as a masterstroke. So many variables and externals factors.....the ground is way down that list IMHO. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It has created awareness of the women's game amongst the core rugby league fanbase. I don't think we'd be talking about the women's game as much if they weren't attached to the (currently) bigger side of the game (men's side).

That's unknowable - but I think it shows how far behind pretty much every other sport we are now in terms of developing the profile of the women's game.

[Scubby]

18 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's unknowable - but I think it shows how far behind pretty much every other sport we are now in terms of developing the profile of the women's game.

It is embarrassing and the women's RLWC is going to be a huge wake up call for the lack respect and investment given to the game here. It's going to be 1982 Kangaroos all over again.

[Dave T]

25 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

There's lots to be said about the reasoning for why the crowd will most likely come in around the 23k mark - disappointing I think we can all agree. 

And even as a LUFC I have no issue with Elland Rd been described as 'substandard' - it is....compared to many other football grounds. But, I am chuckling to myself here that 38,000 go there every other week and yet apparently every time RL is played there we have this massive 'leg room' crisis, as if that accounts for thousands staying away? And just on the general point ER been substandard - by any metric/measure it is considerably better than any RL ground...which means as a sport we have to rely on football...but in changing the date of the final we now create fixture clashes. So for all the complaining about the stadium, lets be a little more honest here - fans are feeling the pinch, they're most likely spending money on other RL big events (as someone else listed Magic, WC, GF, CCF) so the appeal of these semis, even for many of the fans of the clubs involved, just isn't there. Also not helped by the bigger game of the 2 mens semis having fans needing to travel the furthest - replace that game with Leeds v Cas and it could easily be 30,000 and it been at ER hailed as a masterstroke. So many variables and externals factors.....the ground is way down that list IMHO. 

I disagree, and I think your thinking is flawed. 

The par for the semi finals is 25k - its broadly what we had as standalone and as double headers. If this comes in at the 20k mark, this move has driven a 20% drop. It is the main change from previous years so logic dictates that it is the biggest factor (although not the only one). 

That 38k go for football isn't relevant as dealing in these absolute numbers is all relative. 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Dave T

[hunsletgreenandgold]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I disagree, and I think your thinking is flawed. 

The par for the semi finals is 25k - its broadly what we had as standalone and as double headers. If this comes in at the 20k mark, this move has driven a 20% drop. It is the main change from previous years so logic dictates that it is the biggest factor (although not the only one). 

That 38k go for football isn't relevant as dealing in these absolute numbers is all relative. 

 

Dave, you talk about the 'par' like there's loads of other to go off - there's been 2 double headers and if you want to look at how it was trending it was 26k 2018 then 24k 2019.....22k the third time round looks right on trend to me. 

Also we're looking at a 3 year gap since the last and LOT has changed since then, not least of all the time of year this is now played at which time will tell if that too could have an impact. Also my point about 38k wasn't the number per se, more to point yes there's a couple of the sections of the ground where it's a bit tight (same as OT) but it's hardly a huge factor in putting people off, despite what this forum may have you believe. 

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Perhaps Headingley, with the ability to move to the "ends" for your teams games and the seated sides for the games not involving your team, as well as having the concourse under the Western terrace with the food and drink stalls as it is for the Cricket would have been better.

At least there is ample coach parking at Elland Road

Unfortunately there isn't 

[Dave T]

24 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Dave, you talk about the 'par' like there's loads of other to go off - there's been 2 double headers and if you want to look at how it was trending it was 26k 2018 then 24k 2019.....22k the third time round looks right on trend to me. 

Also we're looking at a 3 year gap since the last and LOT has changed since then, not least of all the time of year this is now played at which time will tell if that too could have an impact. Also my point about 38k wasn't the number per se, more to point yes there's a couple of the sections of the ground where it's a bit tight (same as OT) but it's hardly a huge factor in putting people off, despite what this forum may have you believe. 

I said it was par for standalone and double headers. 

Around 25k has been the number for a fair while. 

Where do you get the 22k from? And why are you suggesting a 10% drop is fine? 

People aren't lying when they say they won't go to a ground because its awful. It wouldn't put me off going to see my team in a semi final, but I can understand why some have no interest in going there. 

[GUBRATS]

Lots of factors 

Repetitive games 

Neutrals don't do semi finals 

Loss of profile for the cup overall 

Elland rd 

 

 

 

No train station near the stadium 

[GUBRATS]

With regards the Women's CC Final being part of the men's semi final , is so that the RFL can claim the total semi final attendance as being a new record for a women's game , it's a nonsense , but that's what will happen 

It'll be like claiming the 1895 cup has a 40/50,000 attendance 

[RigbyLuger]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

With regards the Women's CC Final being part of the men's semi final , is so that the RFL can claim the total semi final attendance as being a new record for a women's game , it's a nonsense , but that's what will happen 

It'll be like claiming the 1895 cup has a 40/50,000 attendance 

They didn't do that for the last triple header, did they?

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I disagree, and I think your thinking is flawed. 

The par for the semi finals is 25k - its broadly what we had as standalone and as double headers. If this comes in at the 20k mark, this move has driven a 20% drop. It is the main change from previous years so logic dictates that it is the biggest factor (although not the only one). 

That 38k go for football isn't relevant as dealing in these absolute numbers is all relative. 

 

I think you're right Dave that 25k is "par" but that got me thinking, is the fall off simply down to distance, not the stadium itself? 

We're asking the teams with the most fans to cross the Pennines for the game. Looking back as far as 2017 semis, I don't think we've had such an unfavourable split - there's always been at least two of the "big" clubs staying in-county. 

With petrol and train fares what they are, some Lancastrians are giving it a miss, but if Elland Road was in Manchester they may well have gone. 

Given 3 of the 5 best supported English clubs are in the northwest, that suggests we're always better off going for northwestern ground to maximise chances of a good crowd, if booked in advance. 

I agree that separate games might be better, although now we'd have to go back to the BBC and tell them they have to do two OBs now. Once you give it, it's hard to take away! 

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

They didn't do that for the last triple header, did they?

Sorry , my mistake , I pay very little attention to the women's game , which game are you referring to ?

[Old Frightful]

20 hours ago, henage said:

Then hopefully see a HKR win .

5/6 people going in our party , should be a good day , few beers , some rugby , good company , what's not to like .

The line above.

[RigbyLuger]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Sorry , my mistake , I pay very little attention to the women's game , which game are you referring to ?

At the last triple header in Bolton, the women played first but can't remember seeing the RFL make reference to the biggest crowd, in the way they did after the Grand Final at Headingley last year.

[Dave T]

54 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I think you're right Dave that 25k is "par" but that got me thinking, is the fall off simply down to distance, not the stadium itself? 

We're asking the teams with the most fans to cross the Pennines for the game. Looking back as far as 2017 semis, I don't think we've had such an unfavourable split - there's always been at least two of the "big" clubs staying in-county. 

With petrol and train fares what they are, some Lancastrians are giving it a miss, but if Elland Road was in Manchester they may well have gone. 

Given 3 of the 5 best supported English clubs are in the northwest, that suggests we're always better off going for northwestern ground to maximise chances of a good crowd, if booked in advance. 

I agree that separate games might be better, although now we'd have to go back to the BBC and tell them they have to do two OBs now. Once you give it, it's hard to take away! 

Yes, I'm not putting it all down to quality of ground, as I say, that wouldn't put me off, but ground selection overall - distance from teams (that's one of those things), quality of ground and facilities, and transport to the ground within Leeds. 

But we've discussed quite a few other things too, so I do think we have a few factors at play. 

Hopefully we'll get some uptake over the last few days and it'll look good. Either way, I'm looking forward to watch them on TV. 

[Anita Bath]

5 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'm not really old enough to remember that sort of era, only really getting into RL in the mid-90s, but did cup games back then feel more distinctive? Did the cup benefit from Wigan's dominance of the league (even though Wigan also dominated the cup, was there was that "on any given Sunday" sense of an upset)? 

I think the point about fixture fatigue when we talk about it today is in the sense of - does this really feel any different or better (or at least, "please pay an extra £25-30" different or better) to the other times this year that Wigan and St Helens have, will, or could be expected to meet? 

I do think that only real justification for the cup at the moment, sadly, is "it's what we've always done".  

The cup was the highlight of the second half of the season.  There were 31 teams you could be drawn against in the first round and the draw was awaited with much anticipation.  The rounds followed with 16, 8, 4 and then 2 semis I dont even know what number round my team enters now.

Since all 30 teams were in the same league (two teamsfrom outside the league made it through to the first round) and all teams were part time there was much greater chance of upsets. The idea that some teams might not enter the competition was completely fictional.

This season the number of games in each round from the entry of league 1 teams have been 6, 10, 5, 8, 4 and now the semis. All very haphazard and aimed at reducing the number of ties that involve super league versus the rest.

A great institution that reached far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game has been allowed to wither, or should I say, has been managed in ways that achieved the objective of withering away.

 

 

 

 

[Toby Chopra]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, I'm not putting it all down to quality of ground, as I say, that wouldn't put me off, but ground selection overall - distance from teams (that's one of those things), quality of ground and facilities, and transport to the ground within Leeds. 

But we've discussed quite a few other things too, so I do think we have a few factors at play. 

Hopefully we'll get some uptake over the last few days and it'll look good. Either way, I'm looking forward to watch them on TV. 

Indeed, I'll be very much enjoying watching all 3 games on the telly, but I'll have to to tape the second semi and watch it later, or I'll get an earful for neglecting family, lol. 

So the doubleheader ain't happening for me anyway 

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed, I'll be very much enjoying watching all 3 games on the telly, but I'll have to to tape the second semi and watch it later, or I'll get an earful for neglecting family, lol. 

So the doubleheader ain't happening for me anyway 

I've been a bit light on the detail, my wife just knows there is Rugby on in the afternoon

[Leyther_Matt]

1 hour ago, RigbyLuger said:

At the last triple header in Bolton, the women played first but can't remember seeing the RFL make reference to the biggest crowd, in the way they did after the Grand Final at Headingley last year.

Not relevant other than pure pedantry,  but the last triple header was at Leigh last year. And I think the same crowd was ‘attached’ to each game (albeit hugely reduced for social distancing so clearly no records were going to be broken). 

[RigbyLuger]

5 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Not relevant other than pure pedantry,  but the last triple header was at Leigh last year. And I think the same crowd was ‘attached’ to each game (albeit hugely reduced for social distancing so clearly no records were going to be broken). 

I did say "last triple header in Bolton" not "last triple header"