Can IMG make Rugby League into a more successful sport?

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, NW10LDN said:

It's not. There's a thread for it already.

Not for all of us there's not!

And drawing parallels, using analogies and seeing patterns are part of debates, life and even politics.

And all this reminds me of the wonderful quote "Good, because it's nothing personal, it's just that I can't stand you and I think you're useless at the job!" from the Beiderbeck Affair, I think.

[Oxford]

Which leads directly on to restructuring or The Idiots Guide to Keeping the Cash at the Top.

[RP London]

Can someone point me to where the 2x10 plan keeps being brought up by the RFL and/or IMG.. the only times I see it being mentioned are here.. I'm sure I'm missing it, i keep seeing "restructure" as a possibility but I dont see 2 x 10 being mentioned. 

 

 

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

Can someone point me to where the 2x10 plan keeps being brought up by the RFL and/or IMG.. the only times I see it being mentioned are here.. I'm sure I'm missing it, i keep seeing "restructure" as a possibility but I dont see 2 x 10 being mentioned. 

 

 

It's like 'Dublin'.

There are comments which don't mention specifics and rumours that act as if they do but nothing actually saying anything definite yet.

[steve oates]

20 hours ago, RP London said:

for me thats one of the big early wins the IMG can have with their experience and this can then drive a lot more. Be that because we have more money or just because we have more eyes on us but it can be the catalyst to further growth and further developments down the line. 

I've just read on the internet from several serious IMG like companies some great essays about how using social media can increase interest in your product or service, with explanations of how to do this i.e. don't "advertise" but "engage and create interest". This advice is free from several experienced IMG like companies. 

I think you dramatically overdo the effect this sort of thing may have with your "big early wins" "More eyes on us" "further growth" and "future developments down the line".  I can see how young people may warm to products and services they have been introduced to on social media without the hard sell, but not sure how much work the RFL office wallers will have to do to get them to attend Superleage games?

"Big early wins and driving much more?"  Really??

[Jughead]

47 minutes ago, RP London said:

Can someone point me to where the 2x10 plan keeps being brought up by the RFL and/or IMG.. the only times I see it being mentioned are here.. I'm sure I'm missing it, i keep seeing "restructure" as a possibility but I dont see 2 x 10 being mentioned. 

 

 

It’s an idea that pre-dates IMG and a proposal for some form of 2x10 was rejected in the off season by Super League clubs (I think it was them). It seems to have continued to be the rumour since IMG have come in though they’ve never said anything that would back up a 2x10 structure. I think people are looking what they’ve done elsewhere with Basketball, reusing the 2x10 idea and going with it. It’s probably not helped that Mick Gledhill is the only “journalist” (and I use that in the loosest sense of the term) I’ve seen speaking about structure changes and big changes. 

[fighting irish]

24 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I've just read on the internet from several serious IMG like companies some great essays about how using social media can increase interest in your product or service, with explanations of how to do this i.e. don't "advertise" but "engage and create interest". This advice is free from several experienced IMG like companies. 

I think you dramatically overdo the effect this sort of thing may have with your "big early wins" "More eyes on us" "further growth" and "future developments down the line".  I can see how young people may warm to products and services they have been introduced to on social media without the hard sell, but not sure how much work the RFL office wallers will have to do to get them to attend Superleage games?

"Big early wins and driving much more?"  Really??

You are bleating like a dieing calf, in a snowstorm.

IMG are a very successful company and they have taken on this partnership of their own volition. 

Just because you can't imagine how they might improve things, (you ''the businessman'' who'd never heard of ''risk reversal'' as a sales tactic) doesn't mean they don't know how to boost the games finances or won't be able to.

Why don't you stop whining, and wait and see?

[steve oates]

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

Things can and do grow all the time. If people are saying the root cause of being small is that we are small, then they are literally saying there is no hope for growth. 

The problem is that there are three forms of Football in this country. Soccer is so big it dwarfs rugby full stop.

Rugby Union has a long history of putting their money into social Infrastructure, some of the smallest clubs have their own quality grounds and comfortable clubhouses, and before the modern move away from playing outdoor sport many RU clubs could field four teams and have a full junior set up. They grew

We in the north decided to professionalise which brought us the crowds, but we had to spend on stadia, and we had to pay the players. We didn't grow. Rugby Union actively worked on stifling league for years. You indicate I am saying there is no hope for growth. All I want to work on is the reality and the facts of the matter, not my personal view.

The biggest factor is inside and outside Rugby League areas most people choose to put their time and money into Soccer and if they prefer Rugby they put their time and money into Rugby Union. With something like what? 90% of Great Britain being devoid of any RL infrastructure and everyone Football minded absorbed in Union and Soccer you tell me where the "room for growth" actually is?

If it is along the M62 then you will fine even in this "Heartland" Rugby Union has a very strong infrastructure, and is exclusively present in many schools (in which League is side lined and not played)  That's a big problem for us us is that in these modern times the massive majority of kids don't want to play either code of Rugby.

You say "things can grow all the time" which means nothing with respect. It's my challenge to you to set out how we can grow the professional game in the light of the competetive obsticals in our way, and the social obstacles including the heavy decrease in amateur sport, indoor interests gaming on computers and add to that the major new factor of the analysis of head knocks.

Set out for me your realistic plan for RL growth?

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, steve oates said:

We in the north decided to professionalise which brought us the crowds, but we had to spend on stadia, and we had to pay the players. We didn't grow.

20,000 people watched the first Challenge Cup final.

51,628 watched the last one.

We did grow.

[Harry Stottle]

On 12/07/2022 at 14:56, Tommygilf said:

to keep fans engaged in a world where being transient, particularly in your youth, is becoming increasingly the norm. 

Hi Tommy, just a little clarification from you on this statement of yours please.

My understanding of the word 'Transient' is that something does not last very long i.e. it is not permanent, if that is correct are you saying that the youth of today have a very narrow span of attention to get engrossed in anything particular, or is it you are suggesting that there are too many other distractions/pastimes/entertainments that can lure the youth of today from one thing to another?

Either interpretation "becoming increasingly the norm" is not going to do the sport much good at all once we start to lose (from natural causes) those devotees who are from about 40 years old presently, whatever stratergy is employed by IMG or whoever if you are correct, they are going to have to keep redeveloping it on a consistent cycle.

 

[steve oates]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

51,628 watched the last one.

Well down on the record of 102,569 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

Can someone point me to where the 2x10 plan keeps being brought up by the RFL and/or IMG.. the only times I see it being mentioned are here.. I'm sure I'm missing it, i keep seeing "restructure" as a possibility but I dont see 2 x 10 being mentioned. 

 

 

I'm glad you've asked this because a couple of people keep stating it as fact and inevitable, yet I've barely seen any reference to it since it was first muted.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Well down on the record of 102,569 

Indeed.

But, you will note, that 102,569 is also a bigger figure than 20,000.

So, however you care to dress it up, your entire point is wrong from the start because reality disagrees with it.

[steve oates]

26 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You are bleating

 you can't imagine how they might improve things

You stop whining, and wait and see?

You tell me how they will up participation, up the crowds and up the TV deals.

What is this secret power IMG have??

[steve oates]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

however you care to dress it up, your entire point is wrong from the start because reality disagrees with it.

 OK so crowds aren't declining. participation isn't declining and TV money isn't dropping. What is the reality then?

[Harry Stottle]

On 12/07/2022 at 17:06, NW10LDN said:

Well the rumor is that the 2x10 structure is coming in from 2024 and Sky are willing to increase their deal for it.

It won't work, we cannot furnish 20 clubs with enough player's of the required quality to compete inter-division, once you have division 1 playing each other home and away that will be 18 fixtures and then playing each team from the lower division once, and people expect this can happen a season and half from now, just look at Leigh and Fevs blowout scores against some of the teams that will make the second 10, how are they going to strengthen enough to play the likes of the top teams.

IMG are basically working on a 'Commision' basis where they will only get recompensed once the game turns a profit, will they care how teams strengthen or where they obtain the players from if 2 x 10's is actually part of their stratergy?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, steve oates said:

What is the reality then?

You got it wrong by claiming that we have never grown from the start.

[Jughead]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It won't work, we cannot furnish 20 clubs with enough player's of the required quality to compete inter-division, once you have division 1 playing each other home and away that will be 18 fixtures and then playing each team from the lower division once, and people expect this can happen a season and half from now, just look at Leigh and Fevs blowout scores against some of the teams that will make the second 10, how are they going to strengthen enough to play the likes of the top teams.

IMG are basically working on a 'Commision' basis where they will only get recompensed once the game turns a profit, will they care how teams strengthen or where they obtain the players from if 2 x 10's is actually part of their stratergy?

Who said anything about cross-division games? The original proposal, if I remember correctly, was playing each team in your division three times. 

[Harry Stottle]

On 12/07/2022 at 17:20, gingerjon said:

Pretty much everything.

And any attitude that suggests it's fine is on a par with people who get annoyed when their favourite band gets popular.

I know a few people who have had their own companies Ginger where they turned good profits, had an adequate lifestyle and a good working environment for their employees.

Then they had the idea they would strive for bigger contracts, expand the buisness, take on more and more people, then collapsed!

Sometimes Ginger, small is good, but obviously not everyone fails.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I know a few people who have had their own companies Ginger where they turned good profits, had an adequate lifestyle and a good working environment for their employees.

Then they had the idea they would strive for bigger contracts, expand the buisness, take on more and more people, then collapsed!

Sometimes Ginger, small is good, but obviously not everyone fails.

I see where you're going but I don't the analogy works.

There's a Harry Ramsden's in Eastbourne these days.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

I've just read on the internet from several serious IMG like companies some great essays about how using social media can increase interest in your product or service, with explanations of how to do this i.e. don't "advertise" but "engage and create interest". This advice is free from several experienced IMG like companies. 

I think you dramatically overdo the effect this sort of thing may have with your "big early wins" "More eyes on us" "further growth" and "future developments down the line".  I can see how young people may warm to products and services they have been introduced to on social media without the hard sell, but not sure how much work the RFL office wallers will have to do to get them to attend Superleage games?

"Big early wins and driving much more?"  Really??

Again... read what IMG are offering.. its not just social media.. they have spelt it out themselves, also have a look at the companies they run in the media business and see what else is there to be garnered in that area.. seriously just look its right there.

again whether it works or not no one can be sure but I am positive because they have a track record.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

It’s an idea that pre-dates IMG and a proposal for some form of 2x10 was rejected in the off season by Super League clubs (I think it was them). It seems to have continued to be the rumour since IMG have come in though they’ve never said anything that would back up a 2x10 structure. I think people are looking what they’ve done elsewhere with Basketball, reusing the 2x10 idea and going with it. It’s probably not helped that Mick Gledhill is the only “journalist” (and I use that in the loosest sense of the term) I’ve seen speaking about structure changes and big changes. 

 

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It's like 'Dublin'.

There are comments which don't mention specifics and rumours that act as if they do but nothing actually saying anything definite yet.

Thats all i'm picking up as well, its rumour and conjecture on here with no solid base in reality. I've not seen it mentioned anywhere but people keep saying "its coming"... 

 

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I know a few people who have had their own companies Ginger where they turned good profits, had an adequate lifestyle and a good working environment for their employees.

Then they had the idea they would strive for bigger contracts, expand the buisness, take on more and more people, then collapsed!

Sometimes Ginger, small is good, but obviously not everyone fails.

while that is true (as a business this is where we are give or take, what direction do we go etc) the key is that those companies in your analogy are doing well at their level and making good money etc... there are also business that cannot do that unless they scale up so HAVE to grow... Looking at League I dont see us being happy and stable and with everything going ok.. (there are sports like field hockey that I think are in that bracket and for them to really go full pelt at professionalism etc across their to league etc would kill them)

[RP London]

Can i make a suggestion that we leave the 2 x 10 alone? it seems to be no more than a rumour and it was done to death on one of the other off season madness threads about yet another restructure? 

we can always pick it back up if it is announced as even under consideration but as yet it seems no more than the figment of someone's over active imagination.

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Who said anything about cross-division games? The original proposal, if I remember correctly, was playing each team in your division three times. 

Really, I honestly haven't heard that Juggy, the emphasis as been this type of conference system inter-division games, but happy to be corrected.

By the way, does anyone want this guaranteed 3 games plus any other additional fixtures, cup draws etc?