Thu 19th May: SL: Warrington Wolves v St Helens KO 20:00 (Sky)

[WN83]

Cracking game. Saints desire is off the chart but Wire matched them in most areas. They’re beatable this Saints side though minus Dodd, with the shuffle around they’ve had to do and they look clunky in attack, so this season is very much alive. 

[Dave T]

Superb game. Really seeing some good shift in tactics from Wire, so pleased. 

Fair play Saints. 

But overall great game, can't grumble. 

[CiderWire]

Absolutely gutted that we lost. Proud as punch with the performance.

 

[Loiner]

Welsby man of the match but Connor Wrench must have pushed him to the limit.

[Waynebennettswinger]

7 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Cracking game. Saints desire is off the chart but Wire matched them in most areas. They’re beatable this Saints side though minus Dodd, with the shuffle around they’ve had to do and they look clunky in attack, so this season is very much alive. 

Agree with that mate, thankfully I don’t think the coaching and playing group believe the hype from some. Sure they know they are good but they work damn hard at being good. Wigan proved 2 weeks ago that we are beatable and others, like Wire tonight, have shown our vulnerability. That said the desire within the group pulls Saints through most weeks.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Waynebennettswinger
Typo

[Loiner]

8 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Excellent game.  Wrench the star of the show.

And yet they give it to Welsby? 

[Jughead]

Saints got away with one there but it’s that defence that’s won it for them. 

Saints were poor, the discipline and errors were really bad and they handed a lot of ball over to Warrington. Davies isn’t a half, he slows down the attack and the end of sets and transitions have fallen to pieces, if Hopoate can stay fit for longer than two games, they’ve got to move Hopoate or Bennison to one with Welsby and Lomax in the halves. 

Warrington were a great watch this evening. They were a bit of a throwback to the nineties and early 2000’s and threw the ball around, offloaded and played off the cuff. We need more of that in the game. 

[Loiner]

8 minutes ago, hullste said:

Think they got MOTM wrong?? Makinson for me. 

Wrench all the way.

[Jughead]

“We all like winning” that’s some insight from Phil Clarke 

[WN83]

4 minutes ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

Agree with that mate, thankfully I don’t think the coaching and playing group believe the hype from some. Sure they know they are good but they work damn hard at being good. Wigan proved 2 weeks ago that we are beatable and others, like Wire tonight, have shown our vulnerability. That said the desire within the group pulls Saints through most weeks.

It’s incredible how deep the Saints player dig every week and with no further injury problems it’ll take them to another semi final at the very least. It does feel like we’re reaching a point where teams are gaining belief that if they can stick with them physically, they’ll get the chances trouble them. I thought Hull and Wire missed opportunities in both first halves this past two weeks to put them under more pressure but unlike Hull, Warrington didn’t fall away. 
 

I do think it’s a bit of a dip for Saints this and it’s a sign of their class that they’re still putting wins on the board. It’s shaping up to be an excellent second half of the season. I’ve said before that for all the talk of Wigan and Catalans challenging Saints, I like the looks of Huddersfield as well and I think they’re a genuine 4th contender to get to OT and win. 

[hullste]

2 minutes ago, WN83 said:

It’s incredible how deep the Saints player dig every week and with no further injury problems it’ll take them to another semi final at the very least. It does feel like we’re reaching a point where teams are gaining belief that if they can stick with them physically, they’ll get the chances trouble them. I thought Hull and Wire missed opportunities in both first halves this past two weeks to put them under more pressure but unlike Hull, Warrington didn’t fall away. 
 

I do think it’s a bit of a dip for Saints this and it’s a sign of their class that they’re still putting wins on the board. It’s shaping up to be an excellent second half of the season. I’ve said before that for all the talk of Wigan and Catalans challenging Saints, I like the looks of Huddersfield as well and I think they’re a genuine 4th contender to get to OT and win. 

Saints made lots of mistakes from attacking positions in that first half. Credit to Wire but on another day it would have been far worse than 12-4 at HT. 

[Chris22]

Entertaining game, possibly not the highest quality, but enjoyable nevertheless.

Far too many errors from us and our attack was clunky. It has been for a few weeks now, but we are a very resilient team in defence and tough to break down.

Iggy was immense. Makinson came up with some big contributions too. Pleased to see Wrench get a shot on the wing for Wire. He's rapid and deserves a chance to nail down a first team jersey.

Even more delighted to see the holding the ball in the scrum tactic backfire spectacularly. An anti-rugby tactic and pleased to see it punished.

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Entertaining game, possibly not the highest quality, but enjoyable nevertheless.

Far too many errors from us and our attack was clunky. It has been for a few weeks now, but we are a very resilient team in defence and tough to break down.

Iggy was immense. Makinson came up with some big contributions too. Pleased to see Wrench get a shot on the wing for Wire. He's rapid and deserves a chance to nail down a first team jersey.

Even more delighted to see the holding the ball in the scrum tactic backfire spectacularly. An anti-rugby tactic and pleased to see it punished.

Talking about anti-rugby tactics, I was pretty disappointed to see the 6 again rule exploited at the end of the first half, the ref gave us a 6 again due to Saints holding down, the hooter went and we all just walk off. 

When we treated this as a penalty Wire would have had a kick into touch and then another play. 

The 6 again really is the most flawed rule around imho. Basically the defence can just hold on as long as they want and run down the clock. 

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

Agree with that mate, thankfully I don’t think the coaching and playing group believe the hype from some. Sure they know they are good but they work damn hard at being good. Wigan proved 2 weeks ago that we are beatable and others, like Wire tonight, have shown our vulnerability. That said the desire within the group pulls Saints through most weeks.

The difference this year is players playing out of position, we looked unbeatable until injuries got hold of the players.

Last year no shifting around was needed as Dodd and Utility man Welsby covered. This year we don't have that flexibility , that bennison did a job but got injured. Not sure what happened to Grace but I recon he would have caught Marshall in the semi, although he wouldn't have made the error that led to the first or second wigan try. Grace offers a lot in attack and there's plays where percivil gets sucked in. He's a big miss as too is Naqaima who played well covering the wing slot. 

It doesn't help that Lomax is playing with one arm either.

Matatiua started the season on fire but is wasted in the centre and this allows Sironen more game time to give away silly penalties. 

If we can get through this period on top we should be reet for the run in and a fourth title in a row

[yipyee]

24 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Entertaining game, possibly not the highest quality, but enjoyable nevertheless.

Far too many errors from us and our attack was clunky. It has been for a few weeks now, but we are a very resilient team in defence and tough to break down.

Iggy was immense. Makinson came up with some big contributions too. Pleased to see Wrench get a shot on the wing for Wire. He's rapid and deserves a chance to nail down a first team jersey.

Even more delighted to see the holding the ball in the scrum tactic backfire spectacularly. An anti-rugby tactic and pleased to see it punished.

Been saying that for weeks, all the defending side needs to do in the scrum is to push as the attackers are stood still and too upright so have no power, a push will play the back line onside as the scrum has moved backwards and ultimately the attackers will get pushed off the ball.

Also on the flip side in attack a little push would also prevent the second row (which for some insane reason is now referred to as the back row) from breaking early to cover tackle.

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Wrench all the way.

Nah, he was on the loosing side, I also thought Tommy, that cover tackle at the end was insane considering the amount of tough carries he did through the game. He also scored a try and kicked 2, one from touch which ended up being the match winning kick

[Padge]

The playing group, straight from BS coacing manual, its the team.

[Chris22]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Talking about anti-rugby tactics, I was pretty disappointed to see the 6 again rule exploited at the end of the first half, the ref gave us a 6 again due to Saints holding down, the hooter went and we all just walk off. 

When we treated this as a penalty Wire would have had a kick into touch and then another play. 

The 6 again really is the most flawed rule around imho. Basically the defence can just hold on as long as they want and run down the clock. 

I thought that strange too. If six again is given, but there's no advantage, you would think a penalty should be given. Not sure if it was an error by Child or a flaw in the rules.

Don't like six again at all. Takes away the chance to kick a penalty when a team may wish to do it and easily exploited by a defensive team who see little punishment for conceding one on the first tackle.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Chris22

[Niels]

55 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Nah, he was on the loosing side, I also thought Tommy, that cover tackle at the end was insane considering the amount of tough carries he did through the game. He also scored a try and kicked 2, one from touch which ended up being the match winning kick

I also thought Makinson was man of the match. The tackle at the end showed great alertness and reading of the game as well as speed and strength.

He also scored a try and kicked the vital goals, one from the corner. 

 

[Jughead]

7 hours ago, Niels said:

I also thought Makinson was man of the match. The tackle at the end showed great alertness and reading of the game as well as speed and strength.

He also scored a try and kicked the vital goals, one from the corner. 

 

And made 176 metres, more than anyone else on the pitch. 

He should have definitely been in that conversation. 

[Damien]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

Talking about anti-rugby tactics, I was pretty disappointed to see the 6 again rule exploited at the end of the first half, the ref gave us a 6 again due to Saints holding down, the hooter went and we all just walk off. 

When we treated this as a penalty Wire would have had a kick into touch and then another play. 

The 6 again really is the most flawed rule around imho. Basically the defence can just hold on as long as they want and run down the clock. 

I've never hid that I don't like the 6 again rule and here's another example why. If a team has won a penalty they deserve the advantage of that penalty. To me that team should still get the choice.

Surely we could just let teams take quick tap penalties instead of 6 again, if we want to keep the game flowing, or let teams retain the option of a kick to touch. And by quick tap I mean a genuine quick tap where there is no wait for the defence to get set. They still have to retreat 10 metres before contact and the markers are essentially taken out of play if they don't. If they infringe the tap is taken 10 metres down field.

It would be just as quick as 6 again but would more heavily penalise the infringing team. The attacking team would still have the choice and would benefit more from being on the receiving end of spoil tactics. 

[dkw]

8 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I thought that strange too. If six again is given, but there's no advantage, you would think a penalty should be given. Not sure if it was an error by Child or a flaw in the rules.

Don't like six again at all. Takes away the chance to kick a penalty when a team may wish to do it and easily exploited by a defensive team who see little punishment for conceding one on the first tackle.

Would have taken a hell of a kick to get it over from Warringtons own 5 metre line....

[Dave T]

Just now, Damien said:

I've never hid that I don't like the 6 again rule and here's another example why. If a team has won a penalty they deserve the advantage of that penalty. To me that team should still get the choice.

Surely we could just let teams take quick tap penalties instead of 6 again, if we want to keep the game flowing, or let teams retain the option of a kick to touch. And by quick tap I mean a genuine quick tap where there is no wait for the defence to get set. They still have to retreat 10 metres before contact and the markers are essentially taken out of play if they don't. If they infringe the tap is taken 10 metres down field.

It would be just as quick as 6 again but would more heavily penalise the infringing team. The attacking team would still have the choice and would benefit more from being on the receiving end of spoil tactics. 

It's interesting that we quite specifically went down the route of slowing the restarts down, taps and penalties. Yet we do this to try and speed it up. 

Our rules/laws/interpretations are just a load of random standalone things at present. 

[Davo5]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Nah, he was on the loosing side, I also thought Tommy, that cover tackle at the end was insane considering the amount of tough carries he did through the game. He also scored a try and kicked 2, one from touch which ended up being the match winning kick

So players on the losing side are disqualified from being MoM now ?

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's interesting that we quite specifically went down the route of slowing the restarts down, taps and penalties. Yet we do this to try and speed it up. 

Our rules/laws/interpretations are just a load of random standalone things at present. 

The easiest way to tweak this is to always give a penalty for a 6 again offence on the first tackle, but in general I like the rule, I think its a lot better than the stop start mess we had for a few seasons before it. 

But I also wish we would stop penalising the most miniscule things, stopping the game etc. A good example yesterday where Saints knocked on and the ref played on, warrington might have also knocked on after it but it was a 50/50 at worst, but we then had a stoppage while the players figured out what was going on, the scrum was formed, a bit of messing around, then finally the game restarted. Warrington made no yards after their "knock on" so just bloody play on.