The potential of Sheffield Eagles is enormous

[meast]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, but in the mid 90s when the Eagles were in their pomp there was a fair amount of interest in the city, obviously it would never have got close to Utd or Wednesday but if that club had continued as it was I think they could have averaged 4-5k in the long term and become the third club of the city. 

Sheffield Steelers ice hockey and the Forgers/Sharks basketball teams were both bigger pulls than the Eagles, even in the Eagles' heyday.

[Eddie]

25 minutes ago, meast said:

Sheffield Steelers ice hockey and the Forgers/Sharks basketball teams were both bigger pulls than the Eagles, even in the Eagles' heyday.

I lived in Sheffield during the Eagles heyday and while I agree the Steelers were the basketball team definitely weren’t. 

[Big Picture]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

38 minutes ago, meast said:

Sheffield Steelers ice hockey and the Forgers/Sharks basketball teams were both bigger pulls than the Eagles, even in the Eagles' heyday.

I lived in Sheffield during the Eagles heyday and while I agree the Steelers were the basketball team definitely weren’t. 

The question is then, what does RL need in order to penetrate the consciousness of Sheffielders as much or as ice hockey's been able to do?

[Jughead]

I’m not saying Sheffield do or don’t have potential here (I hope they do and they reach it as it’s a great city) but can we use attendances from 25 years ago as gospel now, given the advancements in technology, the way people consume sport and the completely different world we live in?

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Jughead

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The question is then, what does RL need in order to penetrate the consciousness of Sheffielders as much or as ice hockey's been able to do?

The Steelers at that time were the top team in the country, even then though I wouldn’t say they generated 5% of the interest of either Wednesday or Utd. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

What do you mean wind my neck in, what a silly comment, surely it's you who should do that.

I'm telling you how it is so you don't continue to look foolish. My history with Sheffield and the Eagles goes back to the Owlerton days so I do actually know what I'm on about. I was there when Kath was providing the sandwiches and washing the kit whilst hubby did the rest. They were brilliant people and brilliant days but ultimately Sheffield was and is a failure or certainly in the way you are talking about. It always will be, there simply is no appetite. It's far too close to the RL heartland to compete on players and fans. Sure it picks up a few players but any who prove to be any good soon move 20 miles up the road, even the handful who actually from Sheffield.

I know what people like you always think - it's not just the size of the place but look the two soccer teams are ######. Well they are ###### most of the time but that just doesn't seem to matter. Sheffield Eagles could win SL five times in a row but it would barely register against one derby game, even one in the third division. I can't explain it, but I know it's the truth.

It's exactly the same case in London, surely you've worked that out by now. RL is tribal but football is super tribal, it's the British way, you simply can't break that. Even the mega rich NFL can't.

What Sheffield do well though is present a community presence for the game and as they improve they will produce more players and more fans which is great. If they can be on a par with say Featherstone they will have done astonishingly well. Not forgetting of course that Featherstone has a population of 14,000 I believe which probably makes them the best supported club in the world in relative terms!

Yes they did get 8,000, once, Trinity got 38,000, once, so what! In the end the old Sheffield went under because they couldn't get the crowds and the interest, in the end they were sacrificed to help another club that was very nearly as bad. However ask anybody at the time, it was going to fold anyway.

So stop the silly talk and let Sheffield become the club they were always destined to be, a well run semi-pro outfit in the lower leagues pushing the game outside it's heartland to a limited degree. Nothing wrong with that, if London and a few others had been allowed to do just that the game would be a lot stronger. RL is a Northern game, always will be, the point of expansion clubs is not to change that but to open it up to those who are interested who don't live near the M62. It's a small number and always will be but it serves a purpose.

I'm afraid your London goggles seem to obscure reality.

RL being a Northern game is why the sport is destined to become semi-professional. There are large parts of the North which don't even care about the sport. I'd be happy enough to leave it a Northern sport if it was actually popular in Liverpool or Manchester which are the big population centres of the North. Country has changed a lot and I don't think a lot of people on this forum have accepted that reality. Mining and industry towns are in terminal decline and younger generations have moved to the cities.

[Griff]

9 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

 

Yes they did get 8,000, once, Trinity got 38,000, once, so what! In the end the old Sheffield went under because they couldn't get the crowds and the interest, in the end they were sacrificed to help another club that was very nearly as bad. However ask anybody at the time, it was going to fold anyway.

Whilst not disagreeing with the general thrust of your argument, I should point out that Sheffield didn't fold. They relocated to Huddersfield when the Huddersfield club folded where they still trade today.

Their record attendance is some 10600, against Bradford.

[JM2010]

The big thing for me is the community game. How many clubs are there currently in Sheffield and how many if you add Barnsley and Rotherham? For me getting more kids playing in places like Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool as well as the established towns and cities is they key to RL growing as a sport 

Edited August 16, 2022 by JM2010

[Tommygilf]

6 hours ago, JM2010 said:

The big thing for me is the community game. How many clubs are there currently in Sheffield and how many if you add Barnsley and Rotherham? For me getting more kids playing in places like Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool as well as the established towns and cities is they key to RL growing as a sport 

Good point. In addition, in all formats of the game, Sheffield is the ideal place for the South Yorkshire hub from which the game can grow across the region. 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, NW10LDN said:

RL being a Northern game is why the sport is destined to become semi-professional. There are large parts of the North which don't even care about the sport. I'd be happy enough to leave it a Northern sport if it was actually popular in Liverpool or Manchester which are the big population centres of the North. Country has changed a lot and I don't think a lot of people on this forum have accepted that reality. Mining and industry towns are in terminal decline and younger generations have moved to the cities.

I think most people know all of this tbf. Not sure about the destined to become semi professional bit though, people have been predicting the demise of the game for 125 years, it’s never been in a strong position but always survives. 

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, JM2010 said:

The big thing for me is the community game. How many clubs are there currently in Sheffield and how many if you add Barnsley and Rotherham? For me getting more kids playing in places like Sheffield, Manchester, Liverpool as well as the established towns and cities is they key to RL growing as a sport 

Two community clubs in Sheffield I think, Hawks and Forgers. No idea about Rotherham or Barnsley, I’d guess at none.
 

I think we’d all agree that community club growth is key, trouble is who sets up these clubs, setting up one club is a Herculean task. 

[Northern Eel]

On 25/05/2022 at 17:07, RP London said:

I wouldnt disagree with you. I think Sheffield could do well, then grow, but its going to take a lot of work and there are, of course, no guarantees. But I do think with a helpful wind there could be a really nice Championship club in Sheffield which could have a good junior set up throughout south yorkshire. Then from there who knows. Thats how I am looking at it anyway.

I’m interested in what you would expect this to look like? 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 hours ago, Griff said:

Whilst not disagreeing with the general thrust of your argument, I should point out that Sheffield didn't fold. They relocated to Huddersfield when the Huddersfield club folded where they still trade today.

Their record attendance is some 10600, against Bradford.

And I'd point out that the old Huddersfield club didn't fold. The 2 clubs merged, although if they hadn't done so they would probably both have folded.

[Griff]

11 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

And I'd point out that the old Huddersfield club didn't fold. The 2 clubs merged, although if they hadn't done so they would probably both have folded.

Not true, Les.  The old Huddersfield club were liquidated.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Northern Eel said:

I’m interested in what you would expect this to look like? 

I don't know exactly and, of course, it can change depending on what the interest levels are at different places.. but.. 

This year Sheffield Tigers Ru have put an RL side out at under 14 and 15 levels.. these will become 15 and 16 naturally next year with a 13 and 14 team set up potentially. Dodworth have a good side, Dearne Valley do too both of which we have played. It would also be good to get Hillsborough back up.. I believe Forgers are looking at more age groups. 1 or 2 more in and around the city and you have a nice junior set up (olp side of the city would be brillaint but very tough).. it doesn't have to be massive. 

Eagles can work with them, coaching etc but also we've had curtain raisers at the OLP and the players seem to feel part of something. Almost all are wanting to get tickets for bramall Lane for the world cup (and australia v fiji at headingly) and have been going along to eagles during the season. 

That can slowly build towards open age too. Possibly go earlier if the interest is there. 

Add to that some of the stuff in places like Sherwood Wolfhunt (who are a great club from what we have seen, really enjoyed playing them) and Bassetlaw (nice group when I met them at Nottingham but was on a course when we played them away) and you have a wider network "south" of the city to add... 

A group of 8-10 clubs in and around the area would be massive.. it could then link nicely into the Doncaster area.. 

It would be hard work but eagles being back in Sheffield and with the foundation and Andrea working hard to help I think it can build. They have to take the union game into consideration so as not to alienate clubs and players but with sympathy to that and the work and the game could really grow here, and some "home grown" players spotted who are more suited to league than union (I could pick at least 5 from tigers under 14s and 15s who are better suited to league than union). 

The other bit not to forget is the girls game. Union stop the girls playing with the boys at 12 IIRC and there are very few girls teams for the players to go to.. perhaps there could be a chance there too, but that will need eagles going into schools and maybe something to add to the "to do list" once the boys set up is a bit more solid.

As I say it would be hard work and no guarantee of success. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by RP London

[steve oates]

20 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Your so predictable and small minded. It really made you mad that I said Sheffield Eagles have potential. Oh sorry....enormous potential.

Sheffield Eagles got 8,000 against Wigan when they previously played at the Don valley stadium, they also got some very good attendances there during the SL era. That is based on playing out of a secure and regular stadium in the top flight. A lot of SL Clubs in the past few years couldn't even get to 8,000 crowd, they are in a major city with people that love sport. So it's reasonable to say that they have potential and have achieved some success through being challenge cup winners. 

Just wind your neck in

But the thing is Dad that winning the challenge cup didn't get the ultimate reaction of new regular fans growing the club and new players growing the game.  I would suggest that the "potential" in May 1998 was enormous at that final and welcome whistle, but the problem was that it quickly became evident the two massive soccer clubs over the previous years from 1867 on had firmly converted probably 99.% of the Sheffield sporting public, whether players or speccies, or investors to  soccer.

For me the people who ran the club from the start managed to get the impetus, the funds and the interest going to achieve some great crowds, and a good number including myself and many away fans were attracted to games,. especially those that were played at the football stadiums.   In the end I guess that those who bankrolled the club and made the books balance decided that it was too much for them.

It's OK talking about "Potential" but the reality is all clubs need to have hard cash given to them by rich men, by the  wheelbarrow. I think all RL clubs "have the potential" if they can find that rich man, who would be very hard to find in Sheffield, but I am sure Eagles are still looking....  An 8,000 crowd from years ago isn't a sign Eagles have any potential.

[JM2010]

Do they have an Academy?

[gingerjon]

51 minutes ago, steve oates said:

it quickly became evident the two massive soccer clubs over the previous years from 1867 on had firmly converted probably 99.% of the Sheffield sporting public

Don't need to be the biggest.

The Steelers average over 6,000 per game.

But maybe they should listen to you and just give up. It's easier that way.

[Griff]

16 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Do they have an Academy?

They did. The RFL took it off them.

[Eddie]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Don't need to be the biggest.

The Steelers average over 6,000 per game.

But maybe they should listen to you and just give up. It's easier that way.

Must admit I did a double take at that claim so googled to check it, amazed that it was 6,693 in 21/22. That is by far the highest in the UK ice hockey league too, next is 4.7k and fifth is 2.7k. It shows that the Sheffield public will watch sport other than the dross served up by Wednesday and United, though of course a nice warm indoor arena with other entertainment is a completely different proposition for families than going to Sheffield Eagles. 

[The storm]

Is ice hockey any good

We have a team in widnes. 

Widnes Wild i think they are called. 

Im not against other sports and i enjoy the power of cycling for example

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Must admit I did a double take at that claim so googled to check it, amazed that it was 6,693 in 21/22. That is by far the highest in the UK ice hockey league too, next is 4.7k and fifth is 2.7k. It shows that the Sheffield public will watch sport other than the dross served up by Wednesday and United, though of course a nice warm indoor arena with other entertainment is a completely different proposition for families than going to Sheffield Eagles. 

It is a different proposition but it does show that such things are possible.

There will, after all, have been a time when nobody in Sheffield had ever been to an ice hockey match.

[RP London]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Don't need to be the biggest.

The Steelers average over 6,000 per game.

But maybe they should listen to you and just give up. It's easier that way.

Yep... Don Valley did no favours in terms of costs for what they got through the doors.. then having to play at the football clubs where rent was high with little return. 

Steelers have done well and seem pretty sustainable. I think this incarnation of eagles are very different and growing at the right sort of pace without thinking too far ahead which is where bankruptcy can come... as nearly happened a few years ago when a backer was supposed to be about to come on board.  

But sometimes it's hard to see growth and only see the negative that that growth is too slow. I know we've been around a while but with so long without a base we are basically starting from 0 and starting all over again.. growth starts now. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by RP London

[RP London]

2 hours ago, The storm said:

Is ice hockey any good

We have a team in widnes. 

Widnes Wild i think they are called. 

Im not against other sports and i enjoy the power of cycling for example

Yes it can be really enjoyable.. its good fun and a good atmosphere..

Edited August 16, 2022 by RP London

[Eddie]

The club have confirmed that the Eagles don’t have an online shop currently, it will be back online later in the year when they start selling the new kit. Obviously I have no idea why this is, and it’s no doubt for a valid reason, but from an outside point of view it seems like they’re missing a trick.