How do we furnish a promoted team?

[Snowys Backside]

Bin the cap and bin the rule on the number of foreign players per team. 

Make it as we used to be. If your business plan can't hack it, don't do it. If it can, your club could grow and thrive. 

There is Money to be spent in RL but these restrictions (although an attempt to equalise the sport) is now damaging viewing figures. 

[Rockingchair]

If we want to utilise our own local young talent has opposed to having to draft in overseas players on 1 year contracts , perhaps there should be a rule that super league clubs can’t have a player under 21  from outside their home town .

[The Blues Ox]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

So how does clubs stacking squads with overseas players improve that or are you moving on to a different debate?

It has very little effect because the player pool is shrinking year after year because of actions of the Super League teams. There isn't enough full time players of good enough quality to fill more than 12 teams so although Leigh are not a SL team, what they have actually done is raise the overall standard of the full time player pool in the country. Its an utter farce that Leigh and other teams were not allowed to run their own academies and I am not sure how anyone can have a go at them for going down the route they have as though they are doing it to the detriment of the game.

[Barley Mow]

2 hours ago, Rockingchair said:

If we want to utilise our own local young talent has opposed to having to draft in overseas players on 1 year contracts , perhaps there should be a rule that super league clubs can’t have a player under 21  from outside their home town .

There are 10 British Super League clubs and 2 French. Under your proposal, players under 21 from outside those 12 locations would be banned from playing in Super League!

What about lads from Cumberland, the South, Wales or anywhere else? Would they just have to accept they couldn't play Super League until they were 22 or their town had a Super League club?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Barley Mow

[The Blues Ox]

2 hours ago, Rockingchair said:

If we want to utilise our own local young talent has opposed to having to draft in overseas players on 1 year contracts , perhaps there should be a rule that super league clubs can’t have a player under 21  from outside their home town .

I love the draft idea but I prefer it with some stipulations like I have said before. The main problem is how are you going to convince a kid who is about 14, who's parents are been told that he is going to be one of the best players in the game when the reality is the team in for him sees him as a number and knows he is not likely to make it but wants him just incase, to sign for Halifax rather than Wigan?

[Damien]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

It has very little effect because the player pool is shrinking year after year because of actions of the Super League teams. There isn't enough full time players of good enough quality to fill more than 12 teams so although Leigh are not a SL team, what they have actually done is raise the overall standard of the full time player pool in the country. Its an utter farce that Leigh and other teams were not allowed to run their own academies and I am not sure how anyone can have a go at them for going down the route they have as though they are doing it to the detriment of the game.

So a different debate. My post was on about overseas players in the Championship, I never even mentioned Leigh. If every lower league club had squads with half the players from overseas then you would have to seriously question the value of investing in them as a pathway for players.

I'm not sure how your argument works of there not being enough quality full time players for 12 SL teams but yet Leigh are somehow raising the quality of the full time player pool by employing players who aren't good enough for Super League. That's a complete contradiction. As long as Leigh aren't getting one extra penny compared to other Championship clubs to do that then that's fine. If they are getting 3 times the funding as per the last TV deal, to the disadvantage of other Championship clubs, to run that full time squad then that is completely wrong.

I'm not going to argue about academies as my views on this are quite clear, no club should be prevented from having one. This is especially so when salary cap rules give advantages to clubs developing their own players.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Damien

[RP London]

There are a couple  of major issues around the champ team being promoted.. and they are around time and player availability. so you have to fix those, budget and restrictions arent that big a deal, they either have the budget or not and having cap/quote exemptions are always unpopular. 

fiddling with the season seems difficult but players arent going to sign for clubs outside the Super League in a wing and a prayer in the same way as a champ team doesnt want to have costly signings and stay in the champ.. 

Therefore, IMHO its a case of changing the transfer system.. There does seem to be a little bit of money changing hands but not much, players seem to be moving more when they are off contract. So how about making it that no one can sign a contract or pre contract until the end of the season. Or to make all off contract players basically sign into an RFL/SL pot and almost have a draft of off contract players.. NRL players can put their hands up too. New teams gets extra picks, lowest teams get to pick first etc. Its not perfect and there are holes that can be picked in it (as its not a fully formed idea, i have other things to do) but its the start of a thought of giving the promoted team the same time as everyone else to pick up players off contract and to stop being left with the dregs. It would be a departure from the norm for sure but we need that. Of course there are problems where you have the likes of Chris Hill wanting 2 years rather than 1 and maybe the team that drafts him still only want to give him 1 year, where as another would have given him 2, but I am sure something can be worked out on that front.

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, RP London said:

There are a couple  of major issues around the champ team being promoted.. and they are around time and player availability. so you have to fix those, budget and restrictions arent that big a deal, they either have the budget or not and having cap/quote exemptions are always unpopular. 

fiddling with the season seems difficult but players arent going to sign for clubs outside the Super League in a wing and a prayer in the same way as a champ team doesnt want to have costly signings and stay in the champ.. 

Therefore, IMHO its a case of changing the transfer system.. There does seem to be a little bit of money changing hands but not much, players seem to be moving more when they are off contract. So how about making it that no one can sign a contract or pre contract until the end of the season. Or to make all off contract players basically sign into an RFL/SL pot and almost have a draft of off contract players.. NRL players can put their hands up too. New teams gets extra picks, lowest teams get to pick first etc. Its not perfect and there are holes that can be picked in it (as its not a fully formed idea, i have other things to do) but its the start of a thought of giving the promoted team the same time as everyone else to pick up players off contract and to stop being left with the dregs. It would be a departure from the norm for sure but we need that. Of course there are problems where you have the likes of Chris Hill wanting 2 years rather than 1 and maybe the team that drafts him still only want to give him 1 year, where as another would have given him 2, but I am sure something can be worked out on that front.

There is one big flaw on all these ideas that are away from the norm, this suggestion of yours, my overseas number of player's allowed by the promoted club, a protection from relegation for the promoted club, in that they most probably do not suit SL clubs to adjust anything, any body that tried to justify why they sought to give a club less funding than everyone else in Leigh's case, and also tell another team to pay for the travel costs of all SL clubs as per Toulouse whilst excluding their near neighbour from the same conditions is just showing contempt for all but SL teams.

[David Shepherd]

Not a fan of exemptions for the promoted team, even though if we ever do make the promised land it would benefit us massively.

Personally, I'd stop the artificial bottle neck of 1 up 1 down. 2 up 2 down gives at least one of the promoted teams a better chance of staying up in my opinion. There are three (4 if magic is against the other promoted team) games against a club in the same position. Add that into the potential to beat the occasional lower level SL team and you've a fighting chance of finishing 10th and avoiding the drop.

 

[RP London]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There is one big flaw on all these ideas that are away from the norm, this suggestion of yours, my overseas number of player's allowed by the promoted club, a protection from relegation for the promoted club, in that they most probably do not suit SL clubs to adjust anything, any body that tried to justify why they sought to give a club less funding than everyone else in Leigh's case, and also tell another team to pay for the travel costs of all SL clubs as per Toulouse whilst excluding their near neighbour from the same conditions is just showing contempt for all but SL teams.

Oh well in that case shut the thread as we know SL are not going to change anything to suit the incoming teams, they have shown that in the past. 

Its a discussion on how it can be done though rather than "what is likely to be done".

 

[Damien]

33 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Not a fan of exemptions for the promoted team, even though if we ever do make the promised land it would benefit us massively.

Personally, I'd stop the artificial bottle neck of 1 up 1 down. 2 up 2 down gives at least one of the promoted teams a better chance of staying up in my opinion. There are three (4 if magic is against the other promoted team) games against a club in the same position. Add that into the potential to beat the occasional lower level SL team and you've a fighting chance of finishing 10th and avoiding the drop.

 

I agree. I have long preferred the idea of a 14 team SL with 2 up, 2 down. More churn and more variety and it gives more teams more to play for.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Damien

[David Shepherd]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree. I have long preferred the idea of a 14 team SL with 2 up, 2 down. More churn and more variety and it gives teams more to play for.

Yeah, a 14 team league is a must.

[Davo5]

Fan of a Championship team,filled with Antipodean players,on short term contracts,wants the rules changed to allow his club to keep them all if promoted despite not wanting the rules changed to help the current promoted club in Superleague.

How to say your a Leigh fan without saying your a Leigh fan.

[Just Browny]

18 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Fan of a Championship team,filled with Antipodean players,on short term contracts,wants the rules changed to allow his club to keep them all if promoted despite not wanting the rules changed to help the current promoted club in Superleague.

How to say your a Leigh fan without saying your a Leigh fan.

We literally only have to go back about two weeks to find a thread full of Leigh and Featherstone fans saying rules are rules and Toulouse just have to get on with it.

[paulwalker71]

OK ,so I read the article about Leigh and Featherstome saying they should BOTH be in SL next season, and McDermott saying there should be no relegation.

You really couldn't make that up.

Why on earth should Featherstone be promoted when they are quite likley to finish second and get beaten in the GF- and then be protected from relegation to boot?

Fev fans keep telling us they are a part-time team, and I haven't heard any plans to go full time. They don't have an Academy. Granted, they aren't allowed, but stil, the fact is they don't - so they would have to sign whatever cast off's from other SL teams willing to go part-time. How does that benefit Super League?

There'd literally be no advantage in putting Featherstone into SL. There'd be a better case to be made for putting York or even Halifax into the slot.

IF Featherstone EARN their place in SL - as per the competition rules when the season started - then they should get their opportunity. They'd only last one season, since a part-time team would be battered every week in SL. So there's no way in hell they should be protected.

Sorry for the slighty off-topic rant but McDermott's comments really made by blood boil. Fortunately, nobody listens to anything the guy says when it comes to the format of the game.

[Saint Toppy]

7 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Bin the cap and bin the rule on the number of foreign players per team. 

Make it as we used to be. If your business plan can't hack it, don't do it. If it can, your club could grow and thrive. 

There is Money to be spent in RL but these restrictions (although an attempt to equalise the sport) is now damaging viewing figures. 

Binning the cap is one thing and there's certainly an argument that its holding back some clubs to help a few that are struggling. But to bin the foreign player rule is a daft thing to propose.

Some clubs are already poor at developing British talent so allowing them to just fill their team with overseas players will just see them turn out every week with 13+ reserve grade standard Aussies & Kiwi's.

If anything to help the game grow in the UK the number of overseas players permitted should be reduced from the current 7, IMO down to only 4, and of those 4 two must have played a minimum number of 1st team NRL games (say 50+) so we're at least getting half decent quality overseas players coming and not reserve graders. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Saint Toppy

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, RP London said:

Oh well in that case shut the thread as we know SL are not going to change anything to suit the incoming teams, they have shown that in the past. 

Its a discussion on how it can be done though rather than "what is likely to be done".

 

Yes of course it is RP, I started the thread in hope more than expectation of anything changing, it is just my opinion albeit I wish they would do something different.

[binosh]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Fan of a Championship team,filled with Antipodean players,on short term contracts,wants the rules changed to allow his club to keep them all if promoted despite not wanting the rules changed to help the current promoted club in Superleague.

How to say your a Leigh fan without saying your a Leigh fan.

Great input to the discussion.

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

Yeah, a 14 team league is a must.

Where would you get 2 additional appropriate squads from David? 

If the rules stay as they are on 'foriegn' player's and we (as in Britain) don't  produce enough SL quality player's.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Fan of a Championship team,filled with Antipodean players,on short term contracts,wants the rules changed to allow his club to keep them all if promoted despite not wanting the rules changed to help the current promoted club in Superleague.

How to say your a Leigh fan without saying your a Leigh fan.

Obviously that is said in my direction, but have you not read where I have been discriminating about people like your adopted clubs leader wanting Toulouse to pay for the aways team travel expenses.

And just why you are on, you were quite noticable along with the dk fellow in your absence in commenting on the 1895 final, it must have been galling for you watching it.☹

[binosh]

Toulouse should be given dispensation in SL, it’s already shown with Catalans what can be achieved with the right rules. They should also be made to have a mandatory academy.
 

However, there should also be some dispensation for growing the game domestically wether that being on the M62 corridor or not.

Everybody agrees the player pool is too small so what is rationale behind any club being denied an academy? Surely basic maths says it’s better to have 30 young lads running around at 14 SL clubs playing against different opposition every week than 30 British lads running around the current 8/9 academies with hardly any fixtures. If you want to join SL you must have an academy as a prerequisite it’s not difficult.

It’s absolute stupidity that every SL club isn’t made to have an academy that plays weekly as curtain raiser to the main game with free entry with a matchday ticket

The NRL is the best comp in the world, they are looking to expand it to 18 teams and grow with yet another increased TV deal and yet SL wants to contract because of a poor player pool, the NRL don’t give a monkeys if your PNG, Fijian, Tongan, Samoan, Greek,Italian, English, Scottish, Kiwi if your good enough you get a contract then you get one, they aren’t bothered about “homegrown players” they just want the best of the best on the field to sell the product. 

[Oxford]

How do we furnish a promoted team?

IKEA?

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Just Browny said:

We literally only have to go back about two weeks to find a thread full of Leigh and Featherstone fans saying rules are rules and Toulouse just have to get on with it.

I have only ever said I would never protect any club whoever they are from relegation be that any of the French, or our so called high profile clubs.

[Davo5]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And just why you are on, you were quite noticable along with the dk fellow in your absence in commenting on the 1895 final, it must have been galling for you watching it.☹

You are assuming I watched it.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

OK ,so I read the article about Leigh and Featherstome saying they should BOTH be in SL next season, and McDermott saying there should be no relegation.

You really couldn't make that up.

Why on earth should Featherstone be promoted when they are quite likley to finish second and get beaten in the GF- and then be protected from relegation to boot?

Fev fans keep telling us they are a part-time team, and I haven't heard any plans to go full time. They don't have an Academy. Granted, they aren't allowed, but stil, the fact is they don't - so they would have to sign whatever cast off's from other SL teams willing to go part-time. How does that benefit Super League?

There'd literally be no advantage in putting Featherstone into SL. There'd be a better case to be made for putting York or even Halifax into the slot.

IF Featherstone EARN their place in SL - as per the competition rules when the season started - then they should get their opportunity. They'd only last one season, since a part-time team would be battered every week in SL. So there's no way in hell they should be protected.

Sorry for the slighty off-topic rant but McDermott's comments really made by blood boil. Fortunately, nobody listens to anything the guy says when it comes to the format of the game.

Same reasoning from big Mac as he had at Toronto wasn't he then berating little clubs like the one he joined when he was out of work, just seems like he is wanting a bit more job security.

I see no reason whatsoever to deny any club the opportunity to perform at the top level and equally so in protecting anyone from relegation.