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This Promotion/Relegation is a Farce


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20 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Agree although you've forgotten to put Widnes in the WA postcode club too and Batley and Dewsbury in the WF

not forgetting leeds and hunslet.  bradford and keighley.  oldham and rochdale.  and those big mates workington and whitehaven . salford and swinton ?.

and there we have it merged many clubs and reduced congestion along the M62  a win win 

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18 hours ago, DEANO said:

Ya could also merge Toulouse and Catalan and have a 5 team league playing each other 6 times

no they play in different regions . it would be like merging Sheffield with Newcastle .

now there's another idea clubs born out of  the effects of mergers  merging ..

is there no end to this . maybe we could make it only one team in any traditional county 

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4 hours ago, steve oates said:

IMG aren't in charge and no they won't want (unless they are mad) get three cities that don't bother with RL.

"Markets" is a strange word, I much prefer the idea that SKY and other broadcasters will continue to want the top RL clubs in Superleague and their rivalries, as it is the likes of Leeds, Bradford, Saints, Wigan, Hull, HKR, Catalans, Toulouse,  Warrington, Widnes, Wakefield and Castleford plus Leigh and Featherstone that pull the punters.

I'd love that to be a 14 club Superleage, good for the fans, good for TV  and good for gates.

That they may not go for 14 may be down to viewing figures, that count with the advertisers. I suspect they like a 12 club Superleague so they can play out the big derbies one more time. Saints and Wigan may be boring to purists with three league matches a year, but if these games attract bigger viewing figures than Fev and Leigh then the paying customer is king.

IMG will certainly not be advocating Edingburgh.v. Dublin unless they are mad. The market size for RL is not relevant to the size of a town or city, it's relevant to the number of people who support it.

well that's buggered Featherstone and Castleford for starters

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1 hour ago, Jughead said:

For IMG’s first action to be forming a new club in a country with relatively little foundations in that country would be a strange move. 

 

i would imagine it would not be its first action . i would think that a bit further down the road when they had the game running smoothly they could add new teams so really as the have a 12 year contact .

so perhaps year 4 a new team in Dublin . year 7 a new team in Scotland.  year 10 a new team who knows maybe Barcelona or Rome  depending were the finds are coming from.

not everything has to be done in year one unless your panicking . perhaps we will see the first long term strategy in rugby league expansion .

 

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17 minutes ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Call it what you want, it didn't work.

Had it been franchising, it could well have worked. It was nothing like franchising, so it is incorrect to say what it wasn't didn't work.

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3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Generally Franchising is selling the rights to operate a slice of a business for a designated area for a specific amount of cash - the key operative being SELLING the rights

In RL terms if we sold Franchises we raise cash to promote the sport - similar to attracting a third party who take a percentage of future income, thats the buying on the Tik way.

Well put. And in return, the franchisor sets the structure, rules, standards etc etc.

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Dublin isn't a particularly big city (Belfast is bigger, for example*) and it already has quite a mature sports market, I believe. RU is a reasonable deal but any strategy based on luring existing supporters of union isn't one that's going to work, is it?

Is the thinking being that we can get an additional TV deal from RTE or Premier for ROI coverage?

* = edit: turns out, it isn't, because it's wiki doing that thing of putting the metro figure first for some but not others. Dublin still ain't massive though.

As I put a few weeks back , Premier had the camera's at the LSV broadcasting to the ROI , as a ' test ' , fairly sure it was the Sheffield game 

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

But Dublin as a market is packed. Belfast or Scotland is actually a clear(er) run. SRU just lives in private schools or south africans so much more of a tangible market. Again though, it´s all infrastructure. 

Tell IMG, chief. Nothing to do with me.  

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3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

With Dublin I believe the thinking is they would tap into the RU playing/spectator base. 

That my friend would a failure.

GAA is more than just a sport in Ireland, The nearest equal here are super community clubs historically immersed in the populace added with a huge sense that this is about place and belonging. Does cricket do that in England?

And then is the very successful rugby union establishment, spots of football endeavours like in Dundalk, north Dublin and Cork. Plus boxing and horse racing.

RL in Ireland would be best built up from the bottom and slowly. We have tried on multiple occasions to impose RL Empire style onto virginesque fields in Paris, Canada and all failed as much as the Darien did for the Scots.

If its the Sixcountiesnorthernirelandulsternorthofirelanduladh, then its even more complicated and the sectarian issues come to play. As far as I can see only glammy, poppy ice hockey has removed itself from the green/orange net. And That is  just for kids.

Any way I digress.

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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Not for me to tell IMG what to do, but since that hasn't stopped others, here goes. Don't waste a second on Ireland, don't even waste £1/1€ on a baggage trolley at Dublin/Cork/Belfast (x2) airports. Its never ever ever going to happen.  Ever. Even if you fly to Knock for Knock Shrine.

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1 hour ago, paul hicks said:

i would imagine it would not be its first action . i would think that a bit further down the road when they had the game running smoothly they could add new teams so really as the have a 12 year contact .

so perhaps year 4 a new team in Dublin . year 7 a new team in Scotland.  year 10 a new team who knows maybe Barcelona or Rome  depending were the finds are coming from.

not everything has to be done in year one unless your panicking . perhaps we will see the first long term strategy in rugby league expansion .

 

 a new team in Dublin.    Never going to happen.

a new team in Scotland.  Never going to happen

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2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Not for me to tell IMG what to do, but since that hasn't stopped others, here goes. Don't waste a second on Ireland, don't even waste £1/1€ on a baggage trolley at Dublin/Cork/Belfast (x2) airports. Its never ever ever going to happen.  Ever. Even if you fly to Knock for Knock Shrine.

Agree/disagree.

Plenty of support through sharing of good practice/equipment/ training/etc from RFL would be a benefit.

The Northern Ireland executive recently announced immense capital spending for the big three sports GAA, "soccer" and rugby union. A task might be to aspire to access this kind of cash, act as a lobby towards government.

There would be no issues if there was training done in Ireland by SL clubs or challenge matches held there.

But a SL club in Dub............

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33 minutes ago, JohnM said:

 a new team in Dublin.    Never going to happen.

a new team in Scotland.  Never going to happen

Eh up, its like 1980 all over again. Let's welcome Fulham, Cardiff and Kent for starters 👍

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On the Monday after Magic, almost without fail, there’s a non-UK destination that always gets linked with hosting Magic the following year and Dublin always seems to crop up on the list of places people say they’d like to host Magic. Maybe they’re not interested in a new team but the creation of an event, whether a pre-existing event like Magic or the Challenge Cup Final or they’re looking at creating an event and part of that is creating a TV deal for Super League as part of this. Creating a team would not look like an IMG kind of move, from the little I know of them. 

Edited by Jughead
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My comment on Dublin and Edinburgh were tongue in cheek but that is the whole point of a franchise. You just pick up a club and put it where you want. A bit like Cornwall and American football. 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

But Dublin as a market is packed. Belfast or Scotland is actually a clear(er) run. SRU just lives in private schools or south africans so much more of a tangible market. Again though, it´s all infrastructure. 

the problem with Belfast is you have to half the potential audience dependant on were you situate the club .  having recently returned from a family wedding over there its still a patchwork of divided areas .

I was in an hotel just off the sandy row and could net even get over a bridge to Grosvenor road owning to police road blocks that are put in place for the full day  every time one side or the other decides to have a parade as they quaintly call them. was even informed by relative's it would not be safe to go into the city centre on the day of the parade not that it stopped me from going shopping in the fewer than normally open shops.

Belfast for all its bluster is run down and socially deprived and in comparison there's far more money floating around in Dublin. 

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

 

I understand the aim of working on getting population centres interested, but a proposal of starting clubs in these cities now is putting the cart before the horse and is basically what we did with PSG in year 1.

My belief is that we have to arrange ourselves to be as attractive as possible for external investors to want to buy in. And not to buy in in 2023, but maybe in 5 years, or 10, or 15 and so on. 

It's where I supported licensing, create the best league you can within current team make-up, scrap auto P&R and basically invite buy-in, show that you have a competition that eliminates the need for working through the pyramid, or risks it all being undone with relegation. 

I expect this will be their answer, but to get it voted through they'll water it down by pandering to too many existing clubs that overlap. 

Create a vibrant comp by hand picking the strongest set of teams, and invite applicants (existing or new) with a very clear process, maybe including buy-in fee. 

Maybe even source investors as part of the process. 

Just saying we should expand to Dublin or Edinburgh is the same as 1994's conversations. 

Spot on this bit Dave  though I'm not sure that you aren't wasting typing fingers.

Though perhaps it would be better if there are no certainties for inclusion?

I find it hard to find any defense for criteria that include something like academies  and then not letting every club have one.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, DEANO said:

My comment on Dublin and Edinburgh were tongue in cheek but that is the whole point of a franchise. You just pick up a club and put it where you want. A bit like Cornwall and American football. 

You just pick up a club and put it where you want.

I rather think this is how it works. You offer a franchise for sale as a package. Someone then buys it if they can see  a case.  You just pick up a club and sell the franchise to someone who want it.  You don't put it where you want it, but where a buyer wants it. 

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1 hour ago, idrewthehaggis said:

That my friend would a failure.

GAA is more than just a sport in Ireland, The nearest equal here are super community clubs historically immersed in the populace added with a huge sense that this is about place and belonging. Does cricket do that in England?

And then is the very successful rugby union establishment, spots of football endeavours like in Dundalk, north Dublin and Cork. Plus boxing and horse racing.

RL in Ireland would be best built up from the bottom and slowly. We have tried on multiple occasions to impose RL Empire style onto virginesque fields in Paris, Canada and all failed as much as the Darien did for the Scots.

If its the Sixcountiesnorthernirelandulsternorthofirelanduladh, then its even more complicated and the sectarian issues come to play. As far as I can see only glammy, poppy ice hockey has removed itself from the green/orange net. And That is  just for kids.

Any way I digress.

Who knows what the plans are?

Maybe they are thinking about an ‘Ireland Shamrocks’ side that would play around the island of Ireland - Dublin, Belfast, Limerick, Cork, Galway etc. In Hetherington’s words, it’s a blank piece of paper.

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3 minutes ago, JohnM said:

You just pick up a club and put it where you want.

I rather think this is how it works. You offer a franchise for sale as a package. Someone then buys it if they can see  a case.  You just pick up a club and sell the franchise to someone who want it.  You don't put it where you want it, but where a buyer wants it. 

Most on here struggle with the word 'buy'. The RFL should have the deal tied up with Broadcasters for x years and specify the terms of the Franchise including the cost of said Franchise. Franchises should be continually audited and teams sent in to failing ones - Franchises could be bought and sold on the open market, and new franchises offered when demand dictates.

A brief package would be a set number of years before review, stadium size and facilities, min squad spend, Junior/academy structures and standards etc. £5m per franchise seems about right subject to a £2m TV deal per club and a £2m pa min salary spend. The £60-70m raised would provide £2-5m returns pa which would pay for a decent and continual marketing drive. If club A wants to leave at review time then a club joining pays the fee plus interest, with club A getting back 50% of the original fee paid

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23 minutes ago, JohnM said:

You just pick up a club and put it where you want.

I rather think this is how it works. You offer a franchise for sale as a package. Someone then buys it if they can see  a case.  You just pick up a club and sell the franchise to someone who want it.  You don't put it where you want it, but where a buyer wants it. 

That’s what I meant mate

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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