iangidds Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Is the ball live once it passes the 2nd rows feet in a scrum or only when the ball leaves the scrum ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Ball in Play 9. To be in play, the ball must emerge from the scrum after first emerging from between and behind the inner feet of the second row forwards. If the ball does not emerge correctly and the fault cannot be attributed to any one team then it should be put into the scrum once again. https://www.rugby-league.com/governance/rules-and-regulations/laws-of-the-game "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubby Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 If the loose forward has his foot on the ball, it's still in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentoffagain2 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Been a breath of fresh air having scums back.It enables players to be creative.How good was the try from the scrum in the State of Origin game.The defenders never laid a hand on him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 26 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said: Been a breath of fresh air having scums back.It enables players to be creative.How good was the try from the scrum in the State of Origin game.The defenders never laid a hand on him. I'd like a few coaches to look at that... full back in at 13 for NSW overshoots because his "job" is to get straight back to his position at full back rather than reacting to play (brain fade moment).. happens loads with putting random positions into the scrum and think loads can be made from those situations, just catching them slightly off guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 When it passes the second rows back foot, if the 13 traps the ball with his foot it's classes as being out of the scrum, as the lock can pick the ball up or pass the ball, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubby Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 31 minutes ago, barnyia said: When it passes the second rows back foot, if the 13 traps the ball with his foot it's classes as being out of the scrum, as the lock can pick the ball up or pass the ball, I thought the ball had to pass the 13's feet. If he traps it, it's not out. But I'm quite prepared to concede if you know that to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Rule posted above by Dunbar. If loose traps it then it should be called out as the ball is in play as soon as he/she comes in to contact with it. It does seem to be a rule that some refs are interpreting differently though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said: It does seem to be a rule that some refs are interpreting differently though. Surely not! 1 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Interesting , you see refs telling packs not to break while the lock is holding the ball in , but I’ve also heard that it just has to clear the second row … so not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Rugby League: A game where Refs are sure of the Rules. Where fans are not so sure, Where refs apply them differently, Where fans shout abuse at the ref cos he made a decision on a rule they themselves were unsure of, Where pundits take sides over a rule they knew less about than the fans where summariser former players spend all their time pontificating about rules they only understood enough to know they were breaking them and deciding getting caught once in a blue moon was worth the risk. "Blow that whistle Ref! 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Gordon Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) Ball is in play only when it emerges from the scrum via the SRs (a necessary but not sufficient condition). It is not in play if the LF holds it in there with his feet (because it has not emerged). It is in play if LF breaks off the scrum once it has passed the SRs (because the LF breaking off means the ball has emerged). Edited June 9, 2022 by Archie Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 It has to be the second row who traps the ball or the ball is out, watch the NRL when they hold the ball in the scrum to give the scrum half the time to choose a side of the scrum to create a 4v3 before the lock/hooker makes the pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 In union it's the lock as they used to do the old push the scrum and the lock used to tap the ball along with his feet, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Gordon Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, barnyia said: It has to be the second row who traps the ball or the ball is out, watch the NRL when they hold the ball in the scrum to give the scrum half the time to choose a side of the scrum to create a 4v3 before the lock/hooker makes the pass. That is how it works in practice; entirely consistent with the laws of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbruce Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 5 hours ago, Tubby said: I thought the ball had to pass the 13's feet. If he traps it, it's not out. But I'm quite prepared to concede if you know that to be the case. That’s what I thought unless the loose forward breaks from the scrum to pick the ball up as soon as he does that the ball is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) Quote To be in play, the ball must emerge from the scrum after first emerging from between and behind the inner feet of the second row forwards. This does not say that the ball is out of the scrum WHEN it emerges from between and behind the inner feet of the second row forwards. Only that it has to emerge from the scrum only AFTER passing between their feet etc. Edited June 9, 2022 by TBone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 Not sure if im any the wiser after those comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboy Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) Refs do seem to be incorrectly calling the ball "in", when the LF has it trapped. I can live with that if done consistently. The problem is the LFs are often not bound (stood up from the scrum), and the ball is therefore "out". Edited June 10, 2022 by dboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 2 hours ago, iangidds said: Not sure if im any the wiser after those comments Dunbar quoted the law, just read it and decide whether that's the ruling or whether the barrack room lawyers are right. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Watt Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Griff said: Dunbar quoted the law, just read it and decide whether that's the ruling or whether the barrack room lawyers are right. I wonder what the barrack room lawyers think about Rule 6 which covers feeding the scrum. "The ball shall be put in from the Referee's side by holding it in a horizontal position with a point in each hand and rolling it along the ground in to the tunnel formed by the opposing front forwards". Trying to remember the how many years ago I last saw that rule enforced! Finally on the law quoted by Dunbar if you watch any NRL match you will see that in general referees consistently rule that if the last man in the scrum has his foot on the ball it is not yet out out of the scrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iangidds Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 6 hours ago, Griff said: Dunbar quoted the law, just read it and decide whether that's the ruling or whether the barrack room lawyers are right. It feels like a partial law as I read it as it makes no reference to when the ball is in play , it appears only to say it has to pass through the feet of the 2nd row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 1 hour ago, iangidds said: It feels like a partial law as I read it as it makes no reference to when the ball is in play , it appears only to say it has to pass through the feet of the 2nd row. Yes, I did look at the whole section and there was no further clarification on when the ball is officially clear of the scrum. I have just looked at the international laws pdf (which is 74 pages long) and there is no extra clarification in there either. So the interpretation boils down to this... when the ball has passed the feet of the second row and 'with' the loose forward, is it in play? If he/she picks it up then yes absolutely but what if the loose holds it with their feet. Because the loose can play the ball from the scrum, it seems that many interpret them as having any possession at all (hands or feet) as the ball being in play. I am OK with that interpretation and if the team feeding want to hold the ball in the scrum it must be the feet of the second row and not the loose. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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