Pacific Tests - June 25th

[Dave T]

57 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well no. I'd firmly expect England and New Zealand to fund themselves as they have done for 100 odd years. I think Tonga coming here can absolutely be profitable. I have stated that over many posts. However you don't see to think so. If money is the issue then I would be happy for the IRL to help Tonga but they should also reap in the profits (if that meant Tonga touring or a 4 Nations). That would be preferable than another RFL risk averse test series against New Zealand.

I wouldn't expect the RFL or NZRL to be paid for. Neither would I want them to just give up one of their main sources of income. That's just crazy and we already know how much no internationals affect the NZRL and RFL coffers. Those two countries, and France, need to build their income streams too.

OK, so you advocate them covering the costs of the touring team (outside of the top 3)? I can live with that. 

My challenge around not being prepared to do that all round is that without the likes of the IRL investing, we probably wouldn't have seen GB /Eng tour (let's ignore the branding) and thatd be poorer for Tonga and PNG for example. I think all we'd see is the top teams look after themselves. 

I agree with your point then about Tonga (or similar) as for me, a key objective of the IRL should be facilitating more games and opportunities for tier 2 and 3 teams etc. 

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

When we talk about this - and this is no criticism of anyone - I would love to know what kind of figures we are talking about.

How much would it cost to bring Tonga over here for a warm up match v Cumbria, a test v Wales and a test v England?

Well I'd imagine the costs are the same but the returns are different and hence the profitability.

[Sports Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes outside of a Wakefield player (Cook Islands) none have gone over. Kristian Woolf was also not coaching Tonga for this game which was a big miss

I don’t want to get into a slinging match around what does the RFL/NRL do for international RL (again, for all on the forum, not particularly you Scubby), but seriously, Wolf not being present for the Tonga game. Are we happy with that? Is it more justifiable that he missed it than any players? 

Personally speaking, Wolf is the coach and he really should have been there. Why wasn’t he? Tonga looked short on skill and the team needed his obvious inspiration. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Well I'd imagine the costs are the same but the returns are different and hence the profitability.

But, and if I've missed it then I apologise, how much would it cost to do that?

I have no idea how many people are expected to travel, what facilities they need to access, stadium hire, advertising etc - and was just wondering what the expenses actually would be.

[Scubby]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t want to get into a slinging match around what does the RFL/NRL do for international RL (again, for all on the forum, not particularly you Scubby), but seriously, Wolf not being present for the Tonga game. Are we happy with that? Is it more justifiable that he missed it than any players? 

Personally speaking, Wolf is the coach and he really should have been there. Why wasn’t he? Tonga looked short on skill and the team needed his obvious inspiration. 

St Helens played on Thursday and I suppose they pay his wages. Seems pretty bizarre that the UK international weekend was 18 June and NRL international weekend was 25 June. Was it that difficult to align them? I'm sure that would have made it easier for Woolf and some other SL players to go over for the tests.

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

This was not international RL as we know it - today it was NRL international RL.

• The players in Sydney had NRL (Pacific test) logos on their shirts
• They played to NRL rules not international rules (including captains challenge)
• They had NRL refs
• It was televised on the NRL's super Saturday broadcast slot of Fox (probably with TV revenue to NRL)

Exactly what does the IRL actually do? England played the combined nations under SL rules also.

I think we are seeing the start of a power move by the NRL to create a new income stream in October/November each year. After the 2025 WC in France my view is that all bets are off and the NRL will bid to run the RLWC (maybe even with as few as 8 countries) and 4-6 team pacific cups in non WC years. They may not succeed but it is a definite possibility. 

The only thing I disagree with is that it's the ''start of a power move''. It's been incrementally going on for a fair few years.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

This was not international RL as we know it - today it was NRL international RL.

• The players in Sydney had NRL (Pacific test) logos on their shirts
• They played to NRL rules not international rules (including captains challenge)
• They had NRL refs
• It was televised on the NRL's super Saturday broadcast slot of Fox (probably with TV revenue to NRL)

Exactly what does the IRL actually do? England played the combined nations under SL rules also.

I think we are seeing the start of a power move by the NRL to create a new income stream in October/November each year. After the 2025 WC in France my view is that all bets are off and the NRL will bid to run the RLWC (maybe even with as few as 8 countries) and 4-6 team pacific cups in non WC years. They may not succeed but it is a definite possibility. 

Captains Challenge is in the international rules. I put up the link earlier.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, StandOffHalf said:

The only thing I disagree with is that it's the ''start of a power move''. It's been incrementally going on for a fair few years.

Yes I know what you mean. By start, I mean blatant in-house styling of the international calendar. Starting with 2023 October/November. England may be lucky and get an invite. 

[Davo5]

32 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You put Hopoate at full back, Tupou on the wing, Staggs in the centre and Lolohea at stand off and you have a different backline stacked with experience. Tui would do the majority of the kicking and that lets Staggs play his running game at centre.

Saying that, NZ was awesome today. Hughes, Brown, Manu and Smith is a scary spine. They are the real deal for the WC.

Putting Hopoate in that team wouldn’t improve it one iota 

[Man of Kent]

2 hours ago, jim_57 said:

A few thoughts after finally getting through all games.

NZ - I think this is probably the strongest I’ve seen them in my lifetime and they’re a very real chance at the World Cup.

Tonga - They’ll be better but I can’t see them winning it or making the final. PNG may get them in the group stages.

Samoa - As above, they’ll be strong especially if they get some players like Laui, To’o, Crichton or Papalii.

Cook Islands - For a nation of 20k this is probably their level, won’t expect much more or much less.

PNG - Even though they’re not stacked with NRL players like some others I think they can make quite a dent in the World Cup. Wouldn’t be surprised to see them win their group with a few additions at the end of the year. I love the way they play, it really is disappointing there aren’t more PNG players in the NRL. Olam went from Digicel cup to arguably best centre in the NRL within 4-5 years yet no clubs seem to have noticed. Putt and Puara for example could have had NRL or Super League careers but that ship seems to have sailed unfortunately.

Fiji - Glad to see Turuva doing well. They’ll be far better at the end of the year if they can get Lovodua and Wakeham in the halves and Koroisau at 9. Naiqama probably doesn’t make the 17 at full strength let alone captain and #6, not a half and the #7 I have never heard of. On paper they could have a team just as good as Tonga or Samoa, wouldn’t be surprised to see them make the semis again.

Thoroughly enjoyable day. Give me a NZ, Tonga, Samoa tri-series and PNG Vs Fiji home and away series alongside Origin any day and scrap the half-strength NRL bye weeks. Very real shame if the NRL sticks to the decision of scrapping this, if anything they should be extending it.

Great post. I was thinking similar about whether this is the strongest New Zealand I can remember.

There’s a decent chance they’ll knock out Australia in the semis. 

[Scubby]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Captains Challenge is in the international rules. I put up the link earlier.

Yes, I saw that going back just now. The rest of the rules were not international rules however. It was NRL rules and if someone had gone for a drop goal 40m out they would probably have got 2 points too. SL were just as bad with the England game last week.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Putting Hopoate in that team wouldn’t improve it one iota 

Sometimes, experience helps - especially in the spine in big games. There are not many more options for Tonga in the backline. He has always been solid for Tonga.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Scubby

[StandOffHalf]

34 minutes ago, Damien said:

Tonga were missing a scrum half and someone with a semblance of a kicking game. They either need to find that for the World Cup or someone needs to get practicing.

Wonder whether John Asiata might put his hand up for the World Cup.

I think it's easy to underestimate how much of a benefit it can be (particularly for teams outside the top 3) to have players who are attuned to the country and conditions. They could do a lot worse than Asiata and Lolohea in the halves.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes, I saw that going back just now. The rest of the rules were not international rules however. It was NRL rules and if someone had gone for a drop goal 40m out they would probably have got 2 points too. SL were just as bad with the England game last week.

Not disagreeing.

It's a bit of a dog's dinner.

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes, I saw that going back just now. The rest of the rules were not international rules however. It was NRL rules and if someone had gone for a drop goal 40m out they would probably have got 2 points too. SL were just as bad with the England game last week.

The use of the NRL bunker was a nice touch.

[Scubby]

Just now, Damien said:

The use of the NRL bunker was a nice touch.

Yep and I'm sure the IRL enjoyed the benefits of the sponsorship with KFC

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Sometimes, experience helps - especially in the spine in big games. There are not many more options for Tonga in the backline. He has always been solid for Tonga.

Maybe he was solid 3 years ago but that was before he became injury prone & ######.

[Scubby]

Just now, Davo5 said:

Maybe he was solid 3 years ago but that was before he became injury prone & ######.

Will perhaps, like his Dad, he just needs to pull his finger out

[StandOffHalf]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes I know what you mean. By start, I mean blatant in-house styling of the international calendar. Starting with 2023 October/November. England may be lucky and get an invite. 

Ah yeah, okay. This scrubbing out and re-assigning to an end-of-year slot is all about adding to the NRL portfolio, if you will.

Really makes me sad to see all this international exuberance being manipulated into place by club and Origin-focussed interests. The players, fans, and nations deserve better.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t want to get into a slinging match around what does the RFL/NRL do for international RL (again, for all on the forum, not particularly you Scubby), but seriously, Wolf not being present for the Tonga game. Are we happy with that? Is it more justifiable that he missed it than any players? 

Personally speaking, Wolf is the coach and he really should have been there. Why wasn’t he? Tonga looked short on skill and the team needed his obvious inspiration. 

I agree. In a WC year particularly, but surely a team like Saints who have him for probably 46 wks of the year, they could have delegated for a wk or two. 

[Dave T]

55 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Great post. I was thinking similar about whether this is the strongest New Zealand I can remember.

There’s a decent chance they’ll knock out Australia in the semis. 

That, for me, would be huge. Even if it meant it was NZ vs someone other than England, I think it would change a lot if perceptions of our wc. 

[GUBRATS]

No matter that it was played to NRL rules and used NRL refs and bunker , they played , I watched most of the second 2 games but was falling asleep during the NZ game ( up at 5 am with a stomach bug , not well ) , good games , 

Would / could we get one or two over here for a 4 nations / tour , I sincerely hope so 

[Rawschach]

Just finished watching the 3rd game. Fantastic day of entertainment!

NZ were excellent and scored a couple of top class tries, game was pretty much over by half time but it was still an entertaining watch. Manu is a Rolls Royce of a player.

Cook Islands were outclassed but showed plenty of spirit after a terrible first 20 minutes and the rest of the match was an enjoyable tussle.

The best match was PNG v Fiji. Not only were PNG great (Fiji had the same problem as Tonga with no kicking game at the end of sets) but the commentary from Andrew Voss was icing on the cake.

Great to see some of the talent coming through. The fullback for Fiji cannot get a game in the NRL and he was quality. 

I was already looking forward to the World Cup but even more so after that. Wonderful

[StandOffHalf]

By the way, Sky cut late to the Fox Sports coverage and came on air mid-way through the Kukis' pre-match challenge. Bad form by them, but RL is really largely filler for them.

Here are the two anthems in case anyone wishes to make their test match day complete. Two rather lovely anthems IMO.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[Stuff Smith]

57 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

...Bad form by them, but RL is really largely filler for them.

I thought the Sky adverts in the breaks throughout the games absolutely reinforced that opinion.