Pacific Tests - June 25th

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You do know that the NRL pretty much funded this whole weekend don’t you? I wouldn’t say that falls into the category of contempt.

And how much profit went into the NRL coffers from the weekend ?

[RayCee]

For any who haven't seen the games or would like to revisit any of them, I've done a blog article with links to all four tests. Or you could just go to NRL on YouTube. 

For those wishing to take the my blog route: please click here.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

And how much profit went into the NRL coffers from the weekend ?

I don’t know the answer to that Davo, but my suspicion is that the internationals were a loss making exercise.

[Scubby]

24 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t know the answer to that Davo, but my suspicion is that the internationals were a loss making exercise.

The Sydney tests won't make a profit at the gate but the NRL sells that whole Super Saturday and rep weekend to Fox/9 as part of the broadcast deal. 

It allows broadcasters to fill their schedules while Origin was on a weekend and no doubt they are rewarded handsomely for it.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

The Sydney tests won't make a profit at the gate but the NRL sells that whole Super Saturday and rep weekend to Fox/9 as part of the broadcast deal. 

It allows broadcasters to fill their schedules while Origin was on a weekend and no doubt they are rewarded handsomely for it.

Good point Scubby. Even if the matches do make the NRL a profit after stadium costs and player payments, I have no problem with that. The NRL are a not for profit organisation that redistribute any positive cash back into the game anyway.

I wonder if any of those nation’s, apart from New Zealand, would have the capability to organise those fixtures themselves and couple each match with the corporate nous required to make it work successfully and successively. I suspect not.

[The Great Dane]

On 26/06/2022 at 07:29, RayCee said:

I'm flabbergasted that anyone would want to pick on where players originated by birth. Surely, it is known that the standard and facilities in the Pacific Islands is never going to produce players of international standard. If only Island born players were eligible, those games would never had been played or of sufficient quality to being televised.

If they can't field a legitimate team, then maybe they shouldn't be participating...

Of course the only reason they don't field a legitimate team is because we've made it's easier not to. As a result they don't, and RL is the worse for it because zero effort is put into developing the grassroots in the islands and even more pressure is put on the Australian and Kiwi systems at the expense of local talent.

In the case of Australia that local talent looks for different sports where they'll be afforded a genuine opportunity to succeed, and as a result this practice of allowing glorified soldiers of fortune into rep footy directly contributes to the grassroots dying across the country.

On 26/06/2022 at 07:29, RayCee said:

By tapping into a huge diaspora of Islanders, RL has a pool of talented athletes that provide outstanding entertainment. Surely that should be celebrated, not mocked.

Sure, but at the expense of much larger pools of talented athletes. But who gives right, we have more competitive "internationals" to watch.

21 hours ago, Copa said:

If you try to understand Tongan and Samoan views of culture and identity within both the islands and in Australia and New Zealand, you’ll find your view isn’t relevant at all.

I don't give a flying about their view. Whether they like it or not, international sport was intended to be a contest between nations, not ethnicities.

I know it's going to be hard for an insufferable racist like you to understand, but the fact that they aren't totally of European decent doesn't mean that they aren't Australian or Kiwi!

20 hours ago, gingerjon said:

6 out of 30 of the listed players for the Samoan SU squad are similarly born in places other than Samoa. 80% - and the overwhelming majority of the 'name' players. It's not a specifically rugby league thing at all. 

It will only become a problem if the flow of Tongans and Samoans with at least a grandparental connection stops.

Only because RU moved to the same edibility rules as RL.

I guess everyone's internationals can be a joke now.

18 hours ago, UTK said:

Absolutely, we've already done this with the Melanesian nations in the form of the Hunters and Silktails - it's much more feasible to do so with Fiji and PNG due to their populations but now that both those pathways have been established we should be turning our heads toward a suitable equivalent for Polynesian nations. 

The heritage players have presented an opportunity for this to happen, without the success of Tonga and Samoa's international sides RL would never have gained the recognition domestically to drive their populations toward RL. Taking advantage of that recognition by developing these pathways is the next step in the process of developing these nations.

Specifically on Tonga, we actually have seen an increase in the "domestic" Tongans coming into the NRL over the last 2 years - Eliesa Katoa, Viliami Vailea and Taniela Otukolo were all born and raised (to a point - I believe the first two were there til late high school, unsure on Otukolo) in Tonga. All three are at the Warriors and Katoa was in the wider squad for this match.

We didn't do that with the Melanesian nations. Native Papuans and Fijians have been participating in the sport at all levels for generations at this point. Sure most of the Fijians start out in RU, but that's beside the point.

Furthermore, placing the responsibility of developing all the talent in the Southern Hemisphere onto the shoulders of the NRL isn't a good outcome for the sport anywhere. Of course you don't actually care about that, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time.

[The Great Dane]

56 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Good point Scubby.

No it's not.

The Pacific Tests being bundled into the Super Saturday package shows that it's not a strong enough product to sell independently, which in turn shows that they aren't making a lot of money out of them.

[Davo5]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t know the answer to that Davo, but my suspicion is that the internationals were a loss making exercise.

If they were loss making they wouldn’t be taking place,the NRL don’t do things for fun.

[Copa]

2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

I don't give a flying about their view. Whether they like it or not, international sport was intended to be a contest between nations, not ethnicities.

I know it's going to be hard for an insufferable racist like you to understand, but the fact that they aren't totally of European decent doesn't mean that they aren't Australian or Kiwi!

That’s quite a rant. It’s very clear you don’t care at all about the views of the people of Tonga and Samoa and their RL governing bodies regarding the make up of their teams. Your views, however, have zero relevance.

And of course they can be Australian and Kiwi….. and at the same time Tongan and Samoan. That’s up to them, not me or you to decide.

Identity within some (not all) multicultural and minority communities can be far more nuanced and complex than you seem to be capable of grasping.

Fortunately you’re still alive, so you’ve still got time to learn. Perhaps you could start by, you know, listening to people from different cultures rather than just telling them they’ve got it all wrong.

Tonga, especially, seem to be doing everything really well. Tongan communities in Tonga, NZ and Australia all seem to be on board. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Copa

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Copa said:

That’s quite a rant.

It's also not true.

The first internationals were between national sporting associations (the FA playing the SFA for example) and it was only much later that they became a proxy for nation v nation contests.

Football League internationals continued into the 1970s.

[Scubby]

7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's also not true.

The first internationals were between national sporting associations (the FA playing the SFA for example) and it was only much later that they became a proxy for nation v nation contests.

Football League internationals continued into the 1970s.

Also, touring Australian and Kiwi RL sides played the Northern Union for many years and I believe, until as late as the 1990s, it was the MCC who toured and played overseas test cricket matches (England being the title used by media, marketers and fans)

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's also not true.

The first internationals were between national sporting associations (the FA playing the SFA for example) and it was only much later that they became a proxy for nation v nation contests.

Football League internationals continued into the 1970s.

Which is why England Football play in White shirts with Navy Shorts as they are the colours of the FA.. 

 

[RP London]

20 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Also, touring Australian and Kiwi RL sides played the Northern Union for many years and I believe, until as late as the 1990s, it was the MCC who toured and played overseas test cricket matches (England being the title used by media, marketers and fans)

and lets not forget the All Golds tour had Dally Messenger in the side (who would have qualified for England under the current rules but didnt really qualify for New Zealand at all)

Edited June 27, 2022 by RP London

[Dunbar]

5 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

I know it's going to be hard for an insufferable racist like you to understand, but the fact that they aren't totally of European decent doesn't mean that they aren't Australian or Kiwi!

Can I remind you what you wrote on the thread about posting attitudes. 

"The problem with this place is that a lot of people on here seem to believe that anybody that presents an idea or piece of information that challenges their preconceived notions is a troll by default, and that gives them the right to try and bully them off the site.

That leads to fights and a lack of civility, which leads to a bad atmosphere.

In other words, if you want to fix the atmosphere problem you need to crackdown on the people who add absolutely nothing to a discussion except to insult or mock other people."

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but you can't complain about the atmosphere on here and then go around describing people as insufferable racists just because they present an alternative view to yours.  If you want civility, then show some.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

If they can't field a legitimate team, then maybe they shouldn't be participating...

 

I dare you to tell any of the Tongan or Samoan internationals how Tongan or Samoan they are

 

It's hardly ground-breaking for sports people to play for the country of their parents, or grandparents, or even on pre-agreed residency criteria. Ireland's football team for a near-home example. The RL system is perfectly normal for sports organisations, and rather than drag it down we should celebrate what its present results are telling us: From a recent history of white European domination (in a less than inclusive country, lets be honest), our sport in Australia now clearly has inclusive pathways that encourage a wide range of communities to participate, and achieve their potential in a meritocratic system. That's a good thing. 

 

It's also undeniable that, for example, the Tongan nation "feels" that this team is Tongan. Ask the King. That will do far more to develop participation in Tonga and eventually locally-created talent than any amount of hand-wringing by wishful thinkers on here. Visualisation and aspiration drives the growth of our sport. The NRL is seen as the elite competition of choice in many parts of the Pacific islands now... again, surely that's a good thing?

 

 

 

 

[Pulga]

People have to stop letting their parents consume Murdoch media.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I dare you to tell any of the Tongan or Samoan internationals how Tongan or Samoan they are

It's hardly ground-breaking for sports people to play for the country of their parents, or grandparents, or even on pre-agreed residency criteria. Ireland's football team for a near-home example. The RL system is perfectly normal for sports organisations, and rather than drag it down we should celebrate what its present results are telling us: From a recent history of white European domination (in a less than inclusive country, lets be honest), our sport in Australia now clearly has inclusive pathways that encourage a wide range of communities to participate, and achieve their potential in a meritocratic system. That's a good thing.

No, it's not perfectly normal at all.  Qualification for national teams is based on nationality and always has been, and rightly so.  The practice of allowing non-nationals to play based in mere residency or heritage is an add-on to that used by only some international governing bodies of team sports which have a World Cup or World Championship.  As for whether those "Tongan" or "Samoan" players feel Tongan or Samoan, that's irrelevant because they're only Tongan or Samoan if they're eligible to get a Tongan or Samoan passport.

[Big Picture]

Just now, Big Picture said:

No, it's not perfectly normal at all.  Qualification for national teams is based on nationality and always has been, and rightly so.  The practice of allowing non-nationals to play based on mere residency or heritage is an add-on to that used by only some international governing bodies of team sports which have a World Cup or World Championship.  As for whether those "Tongan" or "Samoan" players feel Tongan or Samoan, that's irrelevant because they're only Tongan or Samoan if they're eligible to get a Tongan or Samoan passport.

 

[Gomersall]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/got-this-one-wrong-wayne-bennett-blown-away-by-footy-bosses-crazy-call/news-story/eb960aad357683f7537a075f860f04c6

[Gomersall]

 

[DavidM]

13 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/got-this-one-wrong-wayne-bennett-blown-away-by-footy-bosses-crazy-call/news-story/eb960aad357683f7537a075f860f04c6

Nailed it 

[RP London]

22 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No, it's not perfectly normal at all.  Qualification for national teams is based on nationality and always has been, and rightly so.  The practice of allowing non-nationals to play based in mere residency or heritage is an add-on to that used by only some international governing bodies of team sports which have a World Cup or World Championship.  As for whether those "Tongan" or "Samoan" players feel Tongan or Samoan, that's irrelevant because they're only Tongan or Samoan if they're eligible to get a Tongan or Samoan passport.

when you say its based on nationality what do you mean? I am assuming you mean they have a passport (basically a national or subject)?

History tells you that players have always played based on heritage and on residency... the likes of Prince Obolensky who was never a British Subject was residency etc its just that the rules are now a bit tighter with residency periods (which also tend to equate to when you can become a citizen)

The other way to go is like Athletics where it is more based on "nationality" but of course then you get the Kenyans running for the Middle Eastern countries because those middle eastern countries decided to give them nationality (and cash!).. i am sure @gingerjonwill confirm this or tell me i'm wrong but I think the Qatari Handball federation did this back in 2013 ish for a world champs? gave out loads of passports to players that hadn't played an international for another country for 3 years which meant they could swap to Qatar, and they made the semis or final... was a tad controversial. 

Its always happened and the rules we have tend to stop the mercenary "buying" of a team at least they have to have a connection to the country to start with.

Edited June 27, 2022 by RP London

[StandOffHalf]

Wonderful, strong, passionate, wise words from Wayne Bennett. 

So good to see him come out and say this. Huge respect for him.

[DavidM]

3 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Wonderful, strong, passionate, wise words from Wayne Bennett. 

So good to see him come out and say this. Huge respect for him.

This is so great , full of passion and emotion . What a weekend  … Enough of that !

Edited June 27, 2022 by DavidM

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, Davo5 said:

If they were loss making they wouldn’t be taking place,the NRL don’t do things for fun.

Well, there are always benefits outside the financial. Perhaps the NRL considers the non-tangible gain is worth more than the financial loss? It’s feasible.

* Edit note - I just saw the Bennet article. The NRL are not organising mid season tests moving forward. Looks like they weren’t profitable after all.

I suppose now we really will get the opportunity for Tonga, Samoa, PNG, Fiji et al to organise their own post season fixtures and see how well they go.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Sports Prophet