NRLW Increases To 10 Teams In 2023

[Man of Kent]

13 hours ago, Scubby said:

I can see a few British based women going out to the NRLW over the next couple of years.

For sure. If I was a footloose and fancy-free twentysomething woman, I'd leap at the chance.

On a slight tangent, there needs to be an NRLW vs WSL game, perhaps a double-header with the World Club Challenge.

Take it around the world etc. Over to you, IMG.  

[The Rocket]

22 hours ago, Pulga said:

It already is the most elite women's rugby comp in the world.

Have to say I am beyond disappointed that two more Sydney teams have been allowed in. This was a real chance to create a comp without all the horrible baggage of tradition.

Now we're just going to have NRL Lite.

Absolutely no vision.

I find your comment of NRLW being  "NRL Lite " incredibly ignorant and patronising, have you watched it ?

And also why shouldn`t girls who have supported a particular NRL club all their life not have the right to play for the female team of that club in a national competition.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, The Rocket said:

I find your comment of NRLW being  "NRL Lite " incredibly ignorant and patronising, have you watched it ?

And also why shouldn`t girls who have supported a particular NRL club all their life not have the right to play for the female team of that club in a national competition.

Yes if the competition is strong enough then bids from Perth, Melbourne, NZ and Adelaide will follow down the line I would imagine.

[The Rocket]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Yes if the competition is strong enough then bids from Perth, Melbourne, NZ and Adelaide will follow down the line I would imagine.

Exactly and Abdo made that clear from the start. Future teams will not have to be associated with existing clubs.

[gingerjon]

33 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yes if the competition is strong enough then bids from Perth, Melbourne, NZ and Adelaide will follow down the line I would imagine.

There will be no NRLW teams in places without an NRL team.

[Scubby]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There will be no NRLW teams in places without an NRL team.

I don't agree. Some clubs like Perth who are bidding for an NRL team in future may be asked to establish an NRLW team in the interim as part of the process.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't agree. Some clubs like Perth who are bidding for an NRL team in future may be asked to establish an NRLW team in the interim as part of the process.

It would be a unique occurrence in the Australian sporting landscape - it hasn't happened in soccer, RU, AFL or cricket and there's zero indication that the NRL is thinking of behaving any differently.

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

I find your comment of NRLW being  "NRL Lite " incredibly ignorant and patronising, have you watched it ?

And also why shouldn`t girls who have supported a particular NRL club all their life not have the right to play for the female team of that club in a national competition.

Why should they not have the right to build their own legacy instead of being forced to ride on the coat tails of the men's clubs?

Signing up to be an NRL club's women's team is signing up to eternally be the after thought opening act, and it shows in the variation between the support of women's and men's teams.

[The Great Dane]

28 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't agree. Some clubs like Perth who are bidding for an NRL team in future may be asked to establish an NRLW team in the interim as part of the process.

Sure, but if the NRL demands of new expansion clubs that they field NRLW teams then those NRLW teams aren't in locations without without NRL teams are they.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

If you were starting a 10 team NRL from scratch today it would look something like-

Sydney x2

Brisbane x2

Melbourne

Perth

Adelaide 

NZ

Regional x2

I hear this point often and whilst it has merit for a geographical spread across the continent, the idea simply falls over because the supporter base for the sport is based on the eastern seaboard and the sport needs suitable representation there, never mind the extortionate costs of getting from east to west, north and south of the continent to the other every week.

Using existing NRL clubs is not a necessity, but using existing brands is the easiest door opener for interest, than creating brand new brands. 

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Myth. If it was true the NRLW teams would be significantly better supported than they actually are.

 

It’s not a myth, the because the clubs would be significantly worse off if they were all newly established franchises. There would be no existing club fan allegiance to draw on (despite what anyone thinks, every NSW NRL club will have over 100k supporters), then of course there are all the existing facilities, administration, knowledge and skill set in managing a professional sports team to utilise in a single organisation rather than two seperate ones. Setting up 10 new franchises would represent a blowout in costs.

Not to forget as I think @The Rocket put it, the ambition of all young girls now having the opportunity to represent the club they have been following their whole lives. It’s what dreams are made of.

So it’s not a myth, no. Certainly not a proven one.

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

 

We'll never know because 99% of them were effectively barred from bidding.

Now there’s a good myth!

Do Cronulla have a divine right to be in the NRLW because of all the unrivalled knowledge, passion, interest and investment the club have placed in professional women’s RL? No, but it probably makes them a better choice than a threadbare organisations like the bloody North Sydney Bears or Newtown Jets!

[The Great Dane]

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It would be a unique occurrence in the Australian sporting landscape - it hasn't happened in soccer, RU, AFL or cricket and there's zero indication that the NRL is thinking of behaving any differently.

It has happened in soccer (Canberra United), basketball (WNBL), and a few other sports.

In those sports that have independent clubs and shared clubs, the independent women's club's tend to be the most successful once you take away the subsidies that the others get from their club's men's team's operations. In saying that, both business plans have their pros and cons and it's definitely a horses of courses situation.

In saying all that I totally agree with you that the NRLW will almost certainly never have an independent club. The NRL will pay lip service to it, but I doubt it'll ever actually happen.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

It has happened in soccer (Canberra United), basketball (WNBL), and a few other sports.

In those sports that have independent clubs and shared clubs, the independent women's club's tend to be the most successful once you take away the subsidies that the others get from their club's men's team's operations. In saying that, both business plans have their pros and cons and it's definitely a horses of courses situation.

In saying all that I totally agree with you that the NRLW will almost certainly never have an independent club. The NRL will pay lip service to it, but I doubt it'll ever actually happen.

My error - I though the A League was completely duplicated for men and women.

No idea about basketball but appreciate that it’s pro in Oz and I should have included it.

[unapologetic pedant]

35 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't agree. Some clubs like Perth who are bidding for an NRL team in future may be asked to establish an NRLW team in the interim as part of the process.

Dolphins fielded an under-19s team in the QLD girls comp for the first time this year. That was before they got the NRL licence. Will be interesting to see if the team is still there next year.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

 If I was a footloose and fancy-free twentysomething woman, I'd leap at the chance.

"If I were a middle-aged bloke, I`d go to the Tag Nationals", said the footloose and fancy-free twentysomething woman.

[unapologetic pedant]

15 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Do Cronulla have a divine right to be in the NRLW because of all the unrivalled knowledge, passion, interest and investment the club have placed in professional women’s RL? 

Don`t forget the chance for players to duff up bouncers at Northies. Also unrivalled.

[The Great Dane]

48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I hear this point often and whilst it has merit for a geographical spread across the continent, the idea simply falls over because the supporter base for the sport is based on the eastern seaboard and the sport needs suitable representation there, never mind the extortionate costs of getting from east to west, north and south of the continent to the other every week.

Ignorance is bliss.

The support base is only on the Eastern Seaboard because everything south of Goulburn and west of Bathurst has been neglected by the establishment in Sydney for basically all of the sport's existence.

If investment was made into other markets you'd see growth, just like the AFL has in the north east and RL in Canberra and Melbourne. Until that happens the sport will have no significant traction.

Furthermore, there're multiple entities across the country interested in investing in the sport that have been shut out by the NRL that could have used the NRLW as a foot in the door, WA being a great example of one that isn't on the Eastern Seaboard. You also failed to address the actual point that I was making, but whatever.

48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Using existing NRL clubs is not a necessity, but using existing brands is the easiest door opener for interest, than creating brand new brands. 

It’s not a myth, the because the clubs would be significantly worse off if they were all newly established franchises. There would be no existing club fan allegiance to draw on (despite what anyone thinks, every NSW NRL club will have over 100k supporters), then of course there are all the existing facilities, administration, knowledge and skill set in managing a professional sports team to utilise in a single organisation rather than two seperate ones. Setting up 10 new franchises would represent a blowout in costs.

Not to forget as I think @The Rocket put it, the ambition of all young girls now having the opportunity to represent the club they have been following their whole lives. It’s what dreams are made of.

So it’s not a myth, no. Certainly not a proven one.

If there was any real value to the existing brands then the NRLW, AFLW, W-league, etc, etc, sides wouldn't be averaging crowds roughly 1-5% the size of their male counterpart's depending on the sport. Their social media engagement, ratings, etc, etc, would all be significantly higher as well because the supporters of those brands would support the team simply because it's carrying the brand.

They aren't, why? Because 95-99% of the pro club's supporters don't care about the women's product regardless of the brand, and never will. As such it's a niche product that will appeal to a niche audience that can exist regardless of the men's audience.

I also never suggested that the NRL should set up 10 brand new franchises, in fact I suggested quite the opposite, so again you are dodging the actual point that was made.

48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Now there’s a good myth!

Do Cronulla have a divine right to be in the NRLW because of all the unrivalled knowledge, passion, interest and investment the club have placed in professional women’s RL? No, but it probably makes them a better choice than a threadbare organisations like the bloody North Sydney Bears or Newtown Jets!

Cronulla probably shouldn't be in the NRL, let alone the NRLW, but that's an aside.

Under no circumstances, no matter the league or sport, is it necessary to have two Southern Sydney sides in the same national competition. There simply isn't the market for it, and as such in the long run their presence will do more damage than good just like it has done in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL.

Taking all that into consideration, their prior investments into women's RL are pretty irrelevant frankly.

Edited June 16, 2022 by The Great Dane

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Ignorance is bliss.

The support base is only on the Eastern Seaboard because everything south of Goulburn and west of Bathurst has been neglected by the establishment in Sydney for basically all of the sport's existence.

If investment was made into other markets you'd see growth, just like the AFL has in the north east. Until that happens the sport will have no significant traction.

Furthermore, there're multiple entities across the country interested in investing in the sport that have been shut out by the NRL that could have used the NRLW as a foot in the door, WA being a great example of one that isn't on the Eastern Seaboard. You also failed to address the actual point that I was making, but whatever.

If any there was any real value to the existing brands then the NRLW, AFLW, W-league, etc, etc, sides wouldn't be averaging crowds roughly 1-5% the size of their male counterpart's depending on the sport. Their social media engagement, ratings, etc, etc, would all be significantly higher as well because the supporter of those brands would support the team simply because it's carrying the brand.

They aren't, why? Because 95-99% of the pro club's supporters don't care about the women's product regardless of the brand, and never will. As such it's a niche product that will appeal to a niche audience that can exist regardless of the men's audience.

I also never suggested that the NRL should set up 10 brand new franchises, in fact I suggested quite the opposite, so again you are dodging the actual point that was made.

Cronulla probably shouldn't be in the NRL, let alone the NRLW, but that's an aside.

Under no circumstances, no matter the league or sport, is it necessary to have two Southern Sydney sides in the same national competition. There simply isn't the market for it, and as such in the long run their presence will do more damage than good just like it has done in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL.

Considering that their prior investments into women's RL are pretty irrelevant frankly.

The Women's Origin is close to a 25k sell out at Canberra. That's not 1-5% of the men's equivalent

[The Great Dane]

28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My error - I though the A League was completely duplicated for men and women.

No idea about basketball but appreciate that it’s pro in Oz and I should have included it.

No stress, I wasn't having a go mate.

[Man of Kent]

21 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

"If I were a middle-aged bloke, I`d go to the Tag Nationals", said the footloose and fancy-free twentysomething woman.

I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere. Looks like there should be  

[The Great Dane]

17 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The Women's Origin is close to a 25k sell out at Canberra. That's not 1-5% of the men's equivalent

Rep footy isn't comparable to club footy for a number of reasons, and frankly I think you know that. A one off special event is always an easier sale than a biweekly commitment.

BTW, I live in Canberra, and it's not close to a sell out unless they've flogged 10k seats cheap in the last few days. Which isn't impossible mind you, I just haven't heard about it yet if it's happened.

Edit; I just checked Ticketek, there's no way that it's close to a sell out. Not yet anyway.

Edited June 16, 2022 by The Great Dane

[Sports Prophet]

your opinion @The Great Dane that Cronulla don’t belong in the NRL is not a unique one, but certainly not an opinion I agree with. I think we’ve been over this often enough, so I don’t need to go into that.

Your opinion that Cronulla don’t belong in the NRLW however is possibly even further from my position. I find it absurd that you think the proven passion, investment and the club’s status as pioneers of the professional women’s RL in this country not to mention the representation of Sharks players in the NRLW and junior participation figures is all irrelevant.

Why would you neglect all that for an unproven organisation and market?

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Do Cronulla have a divine right to be in the NRLW because of all the unrivalled knowledge, passion, interest and investment the club have placed in professional women’s RL? No, but it probably makes them a better choice than a threadbare organisations like the bloody North Sydney Bears or Newtown Jets!

On a serious note, Sharks and Tigers are effectively upgrading their NSW Premiership set-ups. Likewise NQ Gold Stars in the QLD comp. Canberra is the only newly-established team, though they have several years of Tarsha Gale Cup experience to draw on.

Such pragmatism is unavoidable in the short-medium term. If the huge increase in female players produces a distinct fanbase for NRLW, other options may become feasible. But that`s at least a generation away. Most of the crowd at the NRLW GF were SEQ-based Dragons and Roosters fans.

Edited June 16, 2022 by unapologetic pedant

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Under no circumstances, no matter the league or sport, is it necessary to have two Southern Sydney sides in the same national competition. There simply isn't the market for it, and as such in the long run their presence will do more damage than good just like it has done in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL.

Dragons were awarded an original NRLW licence explicitly due to the strength of the Illawarra female comp. They wouldn`t have come close if the bid had been St. George.

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

  not to mention the representation of Sharks players in the NRLW and junior participation figures is all irrelevant.

This is inextricably linked to @The Rocket`s reference to Abdo`s stress on RL being Tackle/Tag/Touch.

When NSWRL launched Blues Tag a few years back, they put virtually all the initial investment into the Cronulla-Sutherland junior league. There must have been especially high Touch and Oztag participation rates in the Shire, and this was converted into League Tag through the clubs.

De La Salle now have 19 League Tag teams across the grades, Como Jannali have 17, Gymea have 13. Several others with good numbers too. It`s a major area for female participation.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Why should they not have the right to build their own legacy instead of being forced to ride on the coat tails of the men's clubs?

They are not men's clubs though are they.  They are Rugby League clubs with men's teams and women's teams.

Rugby League clubs can have age group men and women's teams, senior's, tag, touch, wheelchair, PDRL or any other variation of our sport.

[Copa]

6 hours ago, Scubby said:

The Women's Origin is close to a 25k sell out at Canberra. That's not 1-5% of the men's equivalent

Is it? I have tickets and am really looking forward to the match.