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6 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

When I wander around town, there are always posters up advertising forthcoming productions at our local theatre. I would assume that most theatres don't just put plays on and assume people will turn up without publicity. Can one say the same for rugby league clubs?

Publicity costs money, and those with the money don't see the benefit. Our idea = cheap tickets, devaluing everything.

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Bookending at theatre is fairly common. Making an evening of it with a meal beforehand or a drink afterwards (or at the interval) which, it's quite usual, for the theatre itself to offer. West End theatre packages usually also include accommodation and the like too.

Pre-performance talks, post-show Q&As, additional content you can access with your ticket are all standard as well.

And, from the theatre itself's POV, they will be looking to get people in who aren't actually going to the theatre. I was at that Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford the other day and it was making a killing from people who were happy to soak up the vibe in the very nice bar but who didn't have tickets for any performance.

What were you doing at the RSC? 

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19 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

When I wander around town, there are always posters up advertising forthcoming productions at our local theatre. I would assume that most theatres don't just put plays on and assume people will turn up without publicity. Can one say the same for rugby league clubs?

They think that producing a fixture list that fans can pick up at the club shop is enough.

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

What were you doing at the RSC? 

Enjoying a nice coffee and a cake.

(My parents live locally and I’d not been into Stratford proper before)

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, gingerjon said:

Enjoying a nice coffee and a cake.

(My parents live locally and I’d not been into Stratford proper before)

It's very nice there isn't it.

I was there a couple of weeks ago, in the pub opposite the theatre called the Black Swan.

Theatre goers and cast members call it the ''Dirty Duck''.

My daughters playing there in a couple of weeks time. 

 

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16 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It's very nice there isn't it.

I was there a couple of weeks ago, in the pub opposite the theatre called the Black Swan.

Theatre goers and cast members call it the ''Dirty Duck''.

My daughters playing there in a couple of weeks time. 

 

That’s excellent - in a play?

The bit around the theatre is really nice. Next time I’m at my parents I intend to do the parkrun there.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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18 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That’s excellent - in a play?

The bit around the theatre is really nice. Next time I’m at my parents I intend to do the parkrun there.

Yes mate, she's playing Anne in Richard III starting on June 23rd, and later she plays Helena in All's Well That Ends Well.

I rowed her around the lake in a boat on a sunny day.

It made me feel young again. It was lovely. 

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I cant recall the exact stats, but will try and dig the article out I read about F1 and their increase in exposure for the sport and how their key/majority consumer has changed dramatically over the last 3-5 years. A consumer that traditionally was in the 35-60 age bracket, which has now come down to something like 16-45. One of the reasons being fan engagement across an F1 weekend, both physically and online. Having been to a number of F1 races (work related - I'm not an F1 fan) over the last 5 years or so you can see the changes and how the race is just part of a whole host of activities. From basic things like meet and greet/autograph sessions with the drivers, to things like esports/gaming areas and even wheel changing/pitsop races for fans.

The two other key things that have aided that growth are Video games and the Netflix doc Drive to Survive, which in itself has helped raise the profile and appeal among a younger audience (especially in the states) no end.

The 'event' of a game has to improve, but also everything leading up to it outside of a game day, which will play a significant role (if done correct - No Rugby AM level of quality) in generating greater appeal.

Edit: article link here: https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/f1-1bn-fans-2022-audience-formula-one-drive-to-survive-study/

Interesting that the article mentions the F1 virtual GP series, which took place in Lock down. At the time I posted on one of the many lockdown threads about RL doing something similar.

As another side note, I recently had some meetings with one of Europes better and well known streetwear brands, who were in discussions with F1 to have their product featured in the next edition of the F1 video game. All because of that new reach to the younger consumer. A consumer a sport like RL needs.

Edit 2: Off the back of the above successes.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-06-13/formula-one-f1-racing-streaming-gets-boost-from-apple-netflix

Edited by EastLondonMike
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36 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

I cant recall the exact stats, but will try and dig the article out I read about F1 and their increase in exposure for the sport and their key/majority consumer has changed dramatically over the last 3-5 years. A consumer that traditionally was in the 35-60 age bracket, which has now come down to something like 16-45. One of the reasons being fan engagement across an F1 weekend, both physically and online. Having been to a number of F1 races (work related - I'm not an F1 fan) over the last 5 years or so you can see the changes and how the race is just part of a whole host of activities. From basic things like meet and greet/autograph sessions with the drivers, to things like esports/gaming areas and even wheel changing/pitsop races for fans.

The two other key things that have aided that growth are Video games and the Netflix doc Drive to Survive, which in itself has helped raise the profile and appeal among a younger audience (especially in the states) no end.

The 'event' of a game has to improve, but also everything leading up to it outside of a game day, which will play a significant role (if done correct - No Rugby AM level of quality) in generating greater appeal.

Edit: article link here: https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/f1-1bn-fans-2022-audience-formula-one-drive-to-survive-study/

Interesting that the article mentions the F1 virtual GP series, which took place in Lock down. At the time I posted on one of the many lockdown threads about RL doing something similar.

As another side note, I recently had some meetings with one of the Europes better and well known streetwear brands, who were in discussions with F1 to have their product featured in the next edition of the F1 video game. All because of that new reach to the younger consumer. A consumer a sport like RL needs.

Edit 2: Off the back of the above successes.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-06-13/formula-one-f1-racing-streaming-gets-boost-from-apple-netflix

Interesting post mate, good read. 

Didn't we get an announcement a while back about an esports partner for RLWC? 

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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Interesting post mate, good read. 

Didn't we get an announcement a while back about an esports partner for RLWC? 

I don’t know. Must have missed that. 

The gaming arena is something  the sport should have been looking to gain a four hold in years ago. IMO of course. 
but like many things it seems the obvious knowledge gap that probably exists within senior management of the game is what has stopped such a thing.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Stein said:

When I wander around town, there are always posters up advertising forthcoming productions at our local theatre. I would assume that most theatres don't just put plays on and assume people will turn up without publicity. Can one say the same for rugby league clubs?

One is a RL game , albeit with a different opponent 

The other might be a play , or a musical event , even the play might be a comedy , a classic , a whodunnit , a musical ,  maybe a poetry reading 

But you are correct , attracting new patrons does require more work 

Years ago I suggested that the RFL put a marketing individual ( somebody cheap , probably fresh from uni ) into every lower tier club , and a manager overseeing a group of say 4/5 clubs in a localised area , they would pick out one game at each club once a month and work together on pushing that particular game , so once a month you'd have a group of 4/5 working on one of your games , the way various ideas could be tried and if proven successful they could be used elsewhere , a marketing director in overall charge and again meeting up once a month with the managers looking at each others good and bad idea's 

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2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

They think that producing a fixture list that fans can pick up at the club shop is enough.

Not fair really , unlike my good self about 99% of the world has a smart phone that can access virtually everything about fixtures and indeed information from most clubs , I just rely on the wife to tell me who we're playing and when

Edited by GUBRATS
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2 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

I cant recall the exact stats, but will try and dig the article out I read about F1 and their increase in exposure for the sport and their key/majority consumer has changed dramatically over the last 3-5 years. A consumer that traditionally was in the 35-60 age bracket, which has now come down to something like 16-45. One of the reasons being fan engagement across an F1 weekend, both physically and online. Having been to a number of F1 races (work related - I'm not an F1 fan) over the last 5 years or so you can see the changes and how the race is just part of a whole host of activities. From basic things like meet and greet/autograph sessions with the drivers, to things like esports/gaming areas and even wheel changing/pitsop races for fans.

The two other key things that have aided that growth are Video games and the Netflix doc Drive to Survive, which in itself has helped raise the profile and appeal among a younger audience (especially in the states) no end.

The 'event' of a game has to improve, but also everything leading up to it outside of a game day, which will play a significant role (if done correct - No Rugby AM level of quality) in generating greater appeal.

Edit: article link here: https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/f1-1bn-fans-2022-audience-formula-one-drive-to-survive-study/

Interesting that the article mentions the F1 virtual GP series, which took place in Lock down. At the time I posted on one of the many lockdown threads about RL doing something similar.

As another side note, I recently had some meetings with one of the Europes better and well known streetwear brands, who were in discussions with F1 to have their product featured in the next edition of the F1 video game. All because of that new reach to the younger consumer. A consumer a sport like RL needs.

Edit 2: Off the back of the above successes.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-06-13/formula-one-f1-racing-streaming-gets-boost-from-apple-netflix

I've definitely noticed this. I've been an F1 fan since I was 9/10 and I remember that being Lewis Hamilton's first season and the first driver I really liked. He's up there with Rob Burrow for me in terms of sporting heroes.

That said, being an F1 fan felt like it was a bit of a nerdy pastime for most of the following decade or so.

That has changed massively in recent years as my mates have gotten into it. DTS has helped a lot, as particularly through the pandemic it was an easy watch.

Now there are 6 of us going to the Austrian GP in a few weeks for the full weekend. That would not have happened just a few years ago.

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree, 10k should be pretty achievable on newer areas, but I suspect this is purely based on costs. And I mean not only hiring the ground, but travel for RFL employees and sponsors etc. Its quite depressing seeing England games staged like this on the cheap. 

The double header thing is a good point. I've only just realised when I've gone into the RLWC site that every single women's game in the world cup is a double header. In November FFS. 

And on Monday and Tuesday nights too!

Just on the double headers, when I hosted an evening with Ken Davy earlier this month, he said he didn't like the double headers and neither did some representative from IMG, he said he'd like these games, semi finals and finals to be stand alone events and that the sport maximises efforts to fill the grounds.

 

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36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I've definitely noticed this. I've been an F1 fan since I was 9/10 and I remember that being Lewis Hamilton's first season and the first driver I really liked. He's up there with Rob Burrow for me in terms of sporting heroes.

That said, being an F1 fan felt like it was a bit of a nerdy pastime for most of the following decade or so.

That has changed massively in recent years as my mates have gotten into it. DTS has helped a lot, as particularly through the pandemic it was an easy watch.

Now there are 6 of us going to the Austrian GP in a few weeks for the full weekend. That would not have happened just a few years ago.

Better when we had Mansell , Senna , and the rest 

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7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Now there are 6 of us going to the Austrian GP in a few weeks for the full weekend. That would not have happened just a few years ago.

This is really interesting to me as, despite not being an F1 fan particularly, I've known a fair few people who follow it and, in my entire life, I've met one whole person who attended a Grand Prix other than the British Grand Prix (and even the latter was literally a couple of people).

And yet in the past year, the proportion who are now either going, planning to go, or seriously looking into going, to a Grand Prix (or more than one) has shot up. It's not like the stands were empty before but something has clearly changed about who they are marketing to and the variety of spectators they want to attract (and are attracting).

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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I would suggest that aside from other reasons such as marketing and tv exposure,the main factor that Formula 1 has taken off here is the presence of a record breaking English World Champion. Possibly surpassing a German's total of wins has helped.🥲

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11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

 Years ago I suggested that the RFL put a marketing individual ( somebody cheap , probably fresh from uni ) into every lower tier club , and a manager overseeing a group of say 4/5 clubs in a localised area , they would pick out one game at each club once a month and work together on pushing that particular game , so once a month you'd have a group of 4/5 working on one of your games , the way various ideas could be tried and if proven successful they could be used elsewhere , a marketing director in overall charge and again meeting up once a month with the managers looking at each others good and bad idea's 

One of the problems that I think the game has when it comes to marketing is that there's an unhealthy self-reliance on short-term "performance" marketing and not enough on longer term strategy. And whilst I understand that this suggestion comes from the right place, it sort of perpetuates that problem (it's the same mindset that sees some of my posts challenged with "well if you're so smart, why don't you offer to do it on commission?"). I don't think we solve this issue by looking at it game by game because, when we do, we'll look at the immediate ROI and wonder why we bothered. 

Anyone who has worked in or studied marketing will know that "The Long and the Short of it' is essential reading. It addresses this very balance and shows that businesses - in any sector - that focus on longer term activity (stuff that often takes a longer time to realise and is harder to measure) as well as short-term activity make more in the long term than businesses that focus excessively on short-term activity. 

If you were to take something like BullMania and look at that through a short term ROI lens after the first game, it would look like a money pit - a huge, expensive folly that you'd be stupid to repeat. But over time, the impact is much bigger - BullMania positioned Odsal match days as Bradford's biggest party - something for everyone and ensured that no matter what the events on the pitch were, people had a good time (yes, it also helped that the Bulls were good, but it wasn't essential to people enjoying themselves). That changes the perception of a day at RL and helps the Bulls build their crowds long term.

I don't think RL can fix this issue with a game-by-game approach and this is where I think @Dave T is right. I think RL has a major awareness issue - not because people don't know what it is, but because people don't know what it offers, what it stands for, why it's different and why it's worth their time and money. Are we a family sport? Then why didn't we manage to keep Dave's wife and kids entertained? Are we a sport that just offers p-up weekends?. If so, is that what we want to be? Are we just for the usual crowd, or are we offering something for everyone?

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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9 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Not fair really , unlike my good self about 99% of the world has a smart phone that can access virtually everything about fixtures and indeed information from most clubs , I just rely on the wife to tell me who we're playing and when

Maybe they should give her a few quid to wander around the town telling everybody else too. 

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40 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

If you were to take something like BullMania and look at that through a short term ROI lens after the first game, it would look like a money pit - a huge, expensive folly that you'd be stupid to repeat. But over time, the impact is much bigger - BullMania positioned Odsal match days as Bradford's biggest party - something for everyone and ensured that no matter what the events on the pitch were, people had a good time. That changes perception of a day at RL and helps the Bulls build their crowds long term.

I understand completely why you choose to use the Bullmania concept to get your point over, but what I will disagree with is your term "no matter what the events on the pitch", at the time of Bullmania Bradford had a very successful team, League Winners, GF Winners, CC Winners and WCC Winners, this period in itself would entice more locals through the gates to watch a winning team and to enjoy the party atmosphere, when that successful era for the Bulls came to an end the drop off in the party goers was significantly effected by the events that took place on the pitch.

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53 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

- BullMania positioned Odsal match days as Bradford's biggest party - something for everyone and ensured that no matter what the events on the pitch were, people had a good time (yes, it also helped that the Bulls were good, but it wasn't essential to people enjoying themselves). That changes the perception of a day at RL and helps the Bulls build their crowds long term.

 

Barrow were doing the same the last time I was there and I presume they still are. It was fantastic.

Not easy to replicate though without the location, facilities and a local population eager to join the party.

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53 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

 I don't think we solve this issue by looking at it game by game because, when we do, we'll look at the immediate ROI and wonder why we bothered. 

@Dave T

This really is a crucial point. Even just sticking to the narrow point of. Making these events fun, what seems to be missing is that things you do now that may not see a direct return, make a real difference in future. 

If those kids they got in the ground the other day had all had the time of their lives, they'd have left wanting more, wondering when the next game is - and thats where we then hit them with the world cup. 

I walked out of the ground on my own with 3m to go and generally the discussion from people around me was underwhelming. For me the aim should always be to have people leaving the ground buzzing, and yiu can't assume the Rugby will do that for you. 

These things really do need to be looked at holistically. Spending money on entertainers, bands, colourful branding, video content, mascots, dancers, pyro etc are part of the product at this level. 

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I understand completely why you choose to use the Bullmania concept to get your point over, but what I will disagree with is your term "no matter what the events on the pitch", at the time of Bullmania Bradford had a very successful team, League Winners, GF Winners, CC Winners and WCC Winners, this period in itself would entice more locals through the gates to watch a winning team and to enjoy the party atmosphere, when that successful era for the Bulls came to an end the drop off in the party goers was significantly effected by the events that took place on the pitch.

Nobody is saying that the Rugby is not important, but we are staging the Rugby, we do that bit. The discussion here is that there is stuff that we are ignoring. 

But what can't be ignored with the Bulls example is that what they did has changed them as a club. Let's ignore the basket case they've become for reasons other than Rugby or entertainment, they are still seen as a big club, capable of 5 figure crowds and if they had a good ground likely they'd be capable of being a giant of the game again. 

In reality, prior to that golden period they were a club like Halifax. 

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

This is really interesting to me as, despite not being an F1 fan particularly, I've known a fair few people who follow it and, in my entire life, I've met one whole person who attended a Grand Prix other than the British Grand Prix (and even the latter was literally a couple of people).

And yet in the past year, the proportion who are now either going, planning to go, or seriously looking into going, to a Grand Prix (or more than one) has shot up. It's not like the stands were empty before but something has clearly changed about who they are marketing to and the variety of spectators they want to attract (and are attracting).

I'm not entirely sure exactly what they have done either! Since Liberty took over the commercial rights nearly a decade ago the image of the sport has changed dramatically.

There has been a massive amount of growth in the online presence of the sport: youtube and podcasts for example. And the sport has helped some platforms and content creators which has meant that the entire space has grown dramatically off the back of that. On top of that you have young drivers who are on these platforms themselves (Norris, Leclerc, Albon etc.) and people like to see them interact. 

Its not just a British thing either, over 400,000 people went to COTA in Texas last year.

Even my mum now looks at where Grand Prix's are being held and sees if we can go. Azerbaijan, Hungary, Las Vegas are all potential bucket list events that people who aren't F1 nuts can enjoy. 

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