Wigan’s cartoon mural - when is it too far?

[Dunbar]

I will say two things as a Wigan fan.

Firstly, Flower was the aggressor in the incident.  It played out like this.  On the Wigan kick through, Flower had a high dig at Lance Hohaia, who was in the defensive line, on the way past.  Then when Flower failed to collect the ball Hohaia came back at him with a barge/shove.  So Flower started it but it would have been brushed off as a boil over at the start of a big game if Flower hadn't then viciously punched Hohaia to the ground and followed up with another punch on an unconscious player.

Flower was out of order from the start to the end and deserved the red and deserved the ban and was probably lucky not to get more.

Second.  This shouldn't be referenced jokingly in a club mural.  Maybe if it were fan produced then it can be waived away but not an official piece. The same with the McDermott attack on Sironen.

Not a proud time to be a Wigan fan. They do a lot of things right as a club but not this one.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Dunbar

[dkw]

31 minutes ago, Padge said:

Watch the video Ohio smacks Flower at the back of the head just before the first punch is thrown by Flower.

 

He doesn't smack him at all, its a shove, which was a small retribution for Flowers dig at him.

Edited June 27, 2022 by dkw

[JohnM]

39 minutes ago, Padge said:

I haven't seen anyone justifying it.

Nor has anyone else. It fits the narrative, though, to make the claim.

[Jughead]

44 minutes ago, Padge said:

Watch the video Ohio smacks Flower at the back of the head just before the first punch is thrown by Flower.

 

Watch from kick-off, pal. Flower swings a punch at Hohaia, who retaliates with the coming together with Flower before Flower’s head explodes. 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Watch the video Ohio smacks Flower at the back of the head just before the first punch is thrown by Flower.

 

Yes , after Flower hits Ohia on the way past , and it's irrelevant , he hits a defenceless player on the floor 

What is Ian Leneghan thinking of having this part of his club ? 

[GUBRATS]

40 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I will say two things as a Wigan fan.

Firstly, Flower was the aggressor in the incident.  It played out like this.  On the Wigan kick through, Flower had a high dig at Lance Ohia, who was in the defensive line, on the way past.  Then when Flower failed to collect the ball Ohia came back at him with a barge/shove.  So Flower started it but it would have been brushed off as a boil over at the start of a big game if Flower hadn't then viciously punched Ohia to the ground and followed up with another punch on an unconscious player.

Flower was out of order from the start to the end and deserved the red and deserved the ban and was probably lucky not to get more.

Second.  This shouldn't be referenced jokingly in a club mural.  Maybe if it were fan produced then it can be waived away but not an official piece. The same with the McDermott attack on Sironen.

Not a proud time to be a Wigan fan. They do a lot of things right as a club but not this one.

Well said , most if not all clubs have had players who've done bad things , most can be put down to ' biff ' but some ( again over the years everybody ) like this overstepped the mark 

[Dave W]

Lost in all this arguing is the fact it's not a mural.

Regardless of its debatable content, this thing is just a big poster, not a mural.

It would only be a mural if painted directly onto a wall or other surface, in which case a bit of whitewash would correct the problem (s) easily. 

[JohnM]

Overstepped the mark significantly, inexcusably, irrefutably. That's no reason to cancel it, though. Already, the artwork has reminded us all of the event. 

[JohnM]

4 minutes ago, Dave W said:

Lost in all this arguing is the fact it's not a mural.

Regardless of its debatable content, this thing is just a big poster, not a mural.

It would only be a mural if painted directly onto a wall or other surface, in which case a bit of whitewash would correct the problem (s) easily. 

So you are recommending direct action censorship and cancellation?

[Dave W]

Just now, JohnM said:

So you are recommending direct action censorship and cancellation?

Don't drag me into any culture war b/s.

I'm just here to drop truth bombs about the nature of murals.

[Dave W]

 yourself. You can't handle the truth.

[JohnM]

Apologies, then. You're right, of course, it's clearly not a mural. It's not on a permanent substrate etc. 

Don't know who came up with the description "mural". This is what the Club says:

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/06/24/150-year-mishmash-revealed/

 

 

[JohnM]

2 minutes ago, Dave W said:

 yourself. You can't handle the truth.

I can, though, handle even the most painful of truths. My late mother was born in Barrow in Furness.

[Padge]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , after Flower hits Ohia on the way past , and it's irrelevant , he hits a defenceless player on the floor 

What is Ian Leneghan thinking of having this part of his club ? 

So as I pointed out the action immediately prior to the first punch was Ohia smacking Flower. I am not defending either but lets get the sequence o f events correct.

I am not a mind reader, maybe your second question should be directed to IL @WiganRLFC.

 

[JohnM]

Why not get your own and throw darts at it?

Homeware : Posters (wiganwarriors.com)

[Padge]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Well said , most if not all clubs have had players who've done bad things , most can be put down to ' biff ' but some ( again over the years everybody ) like this overstepped the mark 

Everybody agrees when talking about the incident a line was crossed and Flower deserved all he got.

We are discussing though, in this thread, not the incident but its depiction on the mural.

Some are totally against, a few are pro and others are pro but done a different way.

 

[GUBRATS]

43 minutes ago, Padge said:

So as I pointed out the action immediately prior to the first punch was Ohia smacking Flower. I am not defending either but lets get the sequence o f events correct.

I am not a mind reader, maybe your second question should be directed to IL @WiganRLFC.

 

Are you blind , this was all pointed out at the time , Flowers clips Hohaia as he runs through from the kick across the back of the head , let's get the sequence of events correct 

[GUBRATS]

33 minutes ago, Padge said:

Everybody agrees when talking about the incident a line was crossed and Flower deserved all he got.

We are discussing though, in this thread, not the incident but its depiction on the mural.

Some are totally against, a few are pro and others are pro but done a different way.

 

Yes it's depiction , like a ' Batman ' comic , trivialising it , disgusting 

[Padge]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Yes it's depiction , like a ' Batman ' comic , trivialising it , disgusting 

Which is what I said, if you'd have bothered to read it.

[JohnM]

Here's a famous mishmash artwork that features good and bad.

Football Mishmash (roundheadillustration.com)

Includes reference to the tragedy of the Hillsborough Disaster, to Zinedine Zidane’s notorious headbutt on Marco Materazzi in the 2006 World Cup Final.

If people want to censor the Wigan piece because they are offended by the reference to this shameful incident, then for consistency, they are going to be busy for the rest of their lives censoring some 2000 years of artwork.

 

 

[GUBRATS]

On 26/06/2022 at 12:30, Padge said:

Maybe the should have memorialized the incident that provoked that attack.

The only thing I am disturbed about is adding the Batman effect, that part trivialises the incident.  

Provoked ? , Flowers was the ' provoker ' , I am disturbed by everything , the incident , the way Wigan fans only start watching the play after Flowers initial strike , the ridiculous ' time ' ban rather than match ban , the fact my club signed the sweet and lovely person , the fact this has been included at all , the fact nobody of authority at Wigan isn't it seems isn't ' disturbed by it , the ridiculous comic effect , and the fact it hasn't been removed , changed yet 

Will that do ? , I spend every game telling idiots at Leigh to stop singing disgusting songs about Wigan and insults aimed at Yorkshire clubs , our game doesn't need them , and it'd be better off without the likes of you 

End of 

[Derwent]

Is the Joel Tompkins “rectum of Wigan” incident on there ?

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Here's a famous mishmash artwork that features good and bad.

Football Mishmash (roundheadillustration.com)

Includes reference to the tragedy of the Hillsborough Disaster, to Zinedine Zidane’s notorious headbutt on Marco Materazzi in the 2006 World Cup Final.

If people want to censor the Wigan piece because they are offended by the reference to this shameful incident, then for consistency, they are going to be busy for the rest of their lives censoring some 2000 years of artwork.

 

 

The thing is, the majority of the other “mishmash” designs made up don’t appear to be club commissioned, so there’s a lot more leeway in terms of the drawing of incidents of a close to the bone nature. Wigan’s has been commissioned by Wigan and then, once completed, approved by Wigan after the artist himself said he wanted to include things the club aren’t proud of.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Jughead

[Wigan Riversider]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Complete BLX 

Please explain how S Edwards' incident in 1990 is 'Complete BLX' in your subjective opinion.

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

The thing is, the majority of the other “mishmash” designs made up don’t appear to be club commissioned, so there’s a lot more leeway in terms of the drawing of incidents of a close to the bone nature. Wigan’s has been commissioned by Wigan and then, once completed, approved by Wigan after the artist himself said he wanted to include things the club aren’t proud of.

Had Wigan commission this and then  asked the artist to remove any references to such episodes, then there is just a chance, as slight chance of course, that some people might have criticised the club for censorship. As it s, its those very people who are  proposing censorship.   I realise that is not because its Wigan and the objections would have applied the same standard to any club.