Attendance N/A Not given

[creditwhereitsdews]

Reading League Express, it appears that clubs are increasingly declining to reveal match attendances.

I find this a pity as they are a good indicator of the health of a club and the game as a whole. 

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? (Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, I haven't seen it if it has)

[RigbyLuger]

Amateurish from clubs.

[Saint Toppy]

37 minutes ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

Reading League Express, it appears that clubs are increasingly declining to reveal match attendances.

 

Which clubs are refusing ?

[paulwalker71]

Which clubs didn't give an attendance figure?

[creditwhereitsdews]

In today's League Express, no attendances were given for the games at Bradford, Featherstone, Whitehaven, Widnes and North Wales. It does come across as amateurish but it would be interesting to know why they are not being published any more.

[Bring back GB]

27 minutes ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

In today's League Express, no attendances were given for the games at Bradford, Featherstone, Whitehaven, Widnes and North Wales. It does come across as amateurish but it would be interesting to know why they are not being published any more.

Workington have stopped giving their's also. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Bring back GB

[Jughead]

Do we know if clubs are “refusing” or they’re not being released in time for League Express’ deadlines on a Sunday for the Monday release?

[JohnM]

Just looked at a few club websites and attendance figures are missing for at least three or four of them. 

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 hour ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

In today's League Express, no attendances were given for the games at Bradford, Featherstone, Whitehaven, Widnes and North Wales. It does come across as amateurish but it would be interesting to know why they are not being published any more.

Widnes aren't reporting them because they won't be pretty reading. The nosedive after the early season purple patch has halved crowds. 

[paulwalker71]

2 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Widnes aren't reporting them because they won't be pretty reading. The nosedive after the early season purple patch has halved crowds. 

I suspect it's similar with the Bulls

[chromedome]

Keighley had a great attendance.....and were clearly proud to show it.

I have always kept my team's records i.e. scorers, players and attendance...it's nigh on impossible to get latter nowadays.

[LeeF]

5 hours ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

In today's League Express, no attendances were given for the games at Bradford, Featherstone, Whitehaven, Widnes and North Wales. It does come across as amateurish but it would be interesting to know why they are not being published any more.

Unusual for Whitehaven - they usually announce them

[doc]

At one time at Widnes the attendance would be announced with a fanfare. Then it would be applauded!

Times have changed.

[Bobby123]

34 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Unusual for Whitehaven - they usually announce them

Could this decision have anything to do with the Inland Revenue?

[Fevrover]

50 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Unusual for Whitehaven - they usually announce them

Same at Featherstone, unlike us not to announce it at the game and its usually in League  Express.

[LeeF]

26 minutes ago, Bobby123 said:

Could this decision have anything to do with the Inland Revenue?

Why? Are you accusing a club of fiddling their taxes? If so I hope you have evidence

[Fevrover]

I can't see that because they count season  ticket holders wether they are there or not.

[Leyther_Matt]

Tax liable is on gate receipts, not announced attendance. Clubs can announce whatever figure they want (or not)

[AB Knight]

Possibly going off on one a bit here but as I get older I’ve noticed people don’t like to feel they are missing out, be it gigs, bargains, even the whoopsie cabinet at Tesco!
 

As an example, before Castlefords first game of the season (a sellout vs Salford) I noticed how the interest in the match increased over time. A few months before and people thought 6k/7k tops. Then people started thinking they’d miss out (ticket sales no doubt helped by a ticket offer) and by the week of the game it was fever pitch and social media was a real buzz with people asking for spare tickets. 

On a similar theme I notice a real buzz around clubs when they announce season ticket sales, how many they’ve sold compared to previous years. Here in York, the football club sold as many as last season in just 6 days. It creates interest and people who were maybe on the fence are more likely to buy.
 

It’s why I think it’s a shame in RL some clubs are so secretive about attendances and sales. None more so than at York City Knights, I once figured out how many season tickets we’d sold compared to the previous year and published the huge % increase on the York totalRL forum and was swiftly told by someone from the club to remove the info. There’s the farcical situation with the Knights supposedly not believing the crowds given by the Stadium company so they don’t announce them. I recall the club getting more than 1000 for the first time in a while, I remember breaking 2500 against Toronto which required 2 stands open, 3 stands open for 4000+ against Bradford at Bootham Crescent. It showed the club in good health and I genuinely believe increased attendances further. 
 

I admit I’m a stat geek but it’s disappointing that things are kept secretive. 

[Leyther_Matt]

18 minutes ago, AB Knight said:

Possibly going off on one a bit here but as I get older I’ve noticed people don’t like to feel they are missing out, be it gigs, bargains, even the whoopsie cabinet at Tesco!
 

As an example, before Castlefords first game of the season (a sellout vs Salford) I noticed how the interest in the match increased over time. A few months before and people thought 6k/7k tops. Then people started thinking they’d miss out (ticket sales no doubt helped by a ticket offer) and by the week of the game it was fever pitch and social media was a real buzz with people asking for spare tickets. 

On a similar theme I notice a real buzz around clubs when they announce season ticket sales, how many they’ve sold compared to previous years. Here in York, the football club sold as many as last season in just 6 days. It creates interest and people who were maybe on the fence are more likely to buy.
 

It’s why I think it’s a shame in RL some clubs are so secretive about attendances and sales. None more so than at York City Knights, I once figured out how many season tickets we’d sold compared to the previous year and published the huge % increase on the York totalRL forum and was swiftly told by someone from the club to remove the info. There’s the farcical situation with the Knights supposedly not believing the crowds given by the Stadium company so they don’t announce them. I recall the club getting more than 1000 for the first time in a while, I remember breaking 2500 against Toronto which required 2 stands open, 3 stands open for 4000+ against Bradford at Bootham Crescent. It showed the club in good health and I genuinely believe increased attendances further. 
 

I admit I’m a stat geek but it’s disappointing that things are kept secretive. 

There’s a few things I find odd about that whole situation.

Firstly, if they don’t believe what they are being told by the people who sell the tickets, then surely there’s a greater question as to whether their financial reconciliations are accurate? If the cash stacks up then surely the number sold stacks up? All clubs should be familiar with how you independently check these things as it’s little different to a ‘split gate’ cup game in reality, something that they should all be familiar with by virtue of the operational rules.

Secondly, how has this gone on for so long without a resolution?!

And, lastly, in reality York can basically announce whatever crowd they like if they feel within their rights to do so. As ever, the infamous 25,004 at Wigan v Saints is the answer to that one.

(None of the above is a dig at York and one or all can be applied to plenty of clubs)

Edited June 27, 2022 by Leyther_Matt

[Ragingbull]

6 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Widnes aren't reporting them because they won't be pretty reading. The nosedive after the early season purple patch has halved crowds. 

Id imagine its the same at Odsal.  While yesterday looked to be an improvement numbers wise, the Kear effect certainly took its toll and some of the previous attendances have been extremely worrying as well as embarrasing.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Ragingbull

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Bobby123 said:

Could this decision have anything to do with the Inland Revenue?

They went out of business 20 years ago. Though I doubt whether they'd've been able to attach much evidential credibility to an entry in RL&LE.

[The storm]

9 hours ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

Reading League Express, it appears that clubs are increasingly declining to reveal match attendances.

I find this a pity as they are a good indicator of the health of a club and the game as a whole. 

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening? (Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere, I haven't seen it if it has)

To avoid paying corporation tax on profits maybe

[Griff]

Just now, The storm said:

To avoid paying corporation tax on profits maybe

Would it not be easier to understate the attendance in the unlikely event that that was the case?

[AB Knight]

8 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

There’s a few things I find odd about that whole situation.

Firstly, if they don’t believe what they are being told by the people who sell the tickets, then surely there’s a greater question as to whether their financial reconciliations are accurate? If the cash stacks up then surely the number sold stacks up? All clubs should be familiar with how you independently check these things as it’s little different to a ‘split gate’ cup game in reality, something that they should all be familiar with by virtue of the operational rules.

Secondly, how has this gone on for so long without a resolution?!

And, lastly, in reality York can basically announce whatever crowd they like if they feel within their rights to do so. As ever, the infamous 25,004 at Wigan v Saints is the answer to that one.

(None of the above is a dig at York and one or all can be applied to plenty of clubs)

Fully agree. I made a similar point before and people asked me for answers, I don’t have them, like everyone else I only have questions. My estimate is we are about 10% up on attendances at the last ground, while nothing to write home about, in today’s climate it’s not too bad. I just wish we’d be a bit more open about it....oh and improve the match day experience but that’s for another thread.