Sat 2nd Jul: SL: Hull FC v Leeds Rhinos KO 15:00

[Old Frightful]

This afternoon's performance from Hull FC was abject and a complete embarrassment, but, and I know I've said this several times over the last few years, if it means changes are made and things improve long term, then I'm okay with it.

Before now, I've mainly defended Brett Hodgson because, although we weren't pulling up too many trees, we weren't suffering huge one sided score line defeats that seemed to become the norm under Lee Radford.

Now that's changed, I await with interest to see how long it is before Adam Pearson's patience runs out once again.

[Old Frightful]

On 29/06/2022 at 09:09, Old Frightful said:

First three posts predicting a Hull FC win?

Are you all on drugs?

Told you so.

[DavidM]

1 minute ago, Old Frightful said:

Told you so.

I predicted a 1-0 Leeds win so I was half right 

[Desert Skipper]

2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

That’s aged well

I said it would be defence-based. I just thought that Hull would be defending their own line, not Leeds’.

[Desert Skipper]

2 hours ago, snapski said:

Sorry but i worry slightly about where Super League is going. These are 2 of the biggest clubs in the league who are bang average at best.

Saints are ahead of everyone, with Catalans just behind.

Then have Wigan and Huddersfield who are just above par, with the rest of the league a much of nothingness. 

Don't know how many agree.

It reminds me a bit of 2016, which was the most dour top half of the table in memory for me. Even outside of that year, I think the quality and entertainment has been tailing off since about 2013/14.

We’ve tried to copy the NRL, but ended up with a slower, messier ruck, and don’t have the depth of attacking talent to undo the defences in any exciting manner. I get that we wanted GB/Eng to compete with Aus and NZ at international level, but the entertainment on show every week is nothing compared to the champagne rugby of the early 2000s. Defence wins games, but it does not put bums on seats it would seem. I hope we revert to fun and open rugby once IMG get their hands on it.

Only my opinion of course, but I find myself watching less and less RL these days. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

4 minutes ago, Desert Skipper said:

It reminds me a bit of 2016, which was the most dour top half of the table in memory for me. Even outside of that year, I think the quality and entertainment has been tailing off since about 2013/14.

We’ve tried to copy the NRL, but ended up with a slower, messier ruck, and don’t have the depth of attacking talent to undo the defences in any exciting manner. I get that we wanted GB/Eng to compete with Aus and NZ at international level, but the entertainment on show every week is nothing compared to the champagne rugby of the early 2000s. Defence wins games, but it does not put bums on seats it would seem. I hope we revert to fun and open rugby once IMG get their hands on it.

Only my opinion of course, but I find myself watching less and less RL these days. 

I quite enjoyed 2016!

[Man of Kent]

2 hours ago, snapski said:

Sorry but i worry slightly about where Super League is going. These are 2 of the biggest clubs in the league who are bang average at best.

Saints are ahead of everyone, with Catalans just behind.

Then have Wigan and Huddersfield who are just above par, with the rest of the league a much of nothingness. 

Don't know how many agree.

I agree. Three good teams this year - Saints, Wigan and Catalans. That’s it. 

[Desert Skipper]

8 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I quite enjoyed 2016!

Pah! Currie’s sweaty elbow. That is all. 

[Ullman]

49 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Told you so.

No surprise was it mate? 

We've all seen the film enough times to know how it ends. 

[daz39]

8 hours ago, daz39 said:

Could be more cards than points for Leeds this week - oh hang on Bentley isn't playing AGAIN.

Easy blacknwhites win.

I was joking ......

[Dunbar]

14 hours ago, Desert Skipper said:

It reminds me a bit of 2016, which was the most dour top half of the table in memory for me. Even outside of that year, I think the quality and entertainment has been tailing off since about 2013/14.

We’ve tried to copy the NRL, but ended up with a slower, messier ruck, and don’t have the depth of attacking talent to undo the defences in any exciting manner. I get that we wanted GB/Eng to compete with Aus and NZ at international level, but the entertainment on show every week is nothing compared to the champagne rugby of the early 2000s. Defence wins games, but it does not put bums on seats it would seem. I hope we revert to fun and open rugby once IMG get their hands on it.

Only my opinion of course, but I find myself watching less and less RL these days. 

I'm not saying all is well in Rugby League but you are on a match thread where 78 points have been scored asking for the game to be less defensive and more open.

As for the ruck.  Yes, it is messier than the NRL but not slower... I would say it is faster, precisely because it is messier. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Dunbar

[Tommygilf]

13 hours ago, Desert Skipper said:

It reminds me a bit of 2016, which was the most dour top half of the table in memory for me. Even outside of that year, I think the quality and entertainment has been tailing off since about 2013/14.

We’ve tried to copy the NRL, but ended up with a slower, messier ruck, and don’t have the depth of attacking talent to undo the defences in any exciting manner. I get that we wanted GB/Eng to compete with Aus and NZ at international level, but the entertainment on show every week is nothing compared to the champagne rugby of the early 2000s. Defence wins games, but it does not put bums on seats it would seem. I hope we revert to fun and open rugby once IMG get their hands on it.

Only my opinion of course, but I find myself watching less and less RL these days. 

Spend 20 years with near enough the same salary cap and see what happens.

[JM2010]

38 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Spend 20 years with near enough the same salary cap and see what happens.

Even with an increased salary cap we'd still have the same players just getting paid more.

Investment is needed in increasing junior numbers in the heartlands and areas such as London, The Midlands etc

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Even with an increased salary cap we'd still have the same players just getting paid more.

Investment is needed in increasing junior numbers in the heartlands and areas such as London, The Midlands etc

There would be a far more even balance between us and the NRL as the brain drain there and quality coming here would be improved in our favour. 20 years of a squeeze every penny mentality has left our competition diminished and perhaps at its lowest ebb in 25 years relative to our competitors.

Investment attracts Investment. We have an incredibly low cap with baked in advantages left right and centre. Who would invest in that?

Edited July 3, 2022 by Tommygilf

[meast]

That's an embarrassing scoreline really.

Hull are a rabble of a club aren't they? for seemingly years now they've been able to bend over and get spanked very easily, usually at home as well.

Credit to their fans for sticking with them in the main, but it just seems that club needs and entire culture change or reset.

Could it be the problems start at the top?

It's amazing how many batterings they get really for a club seemingly in the top echelons of the game.

[Old Frightful]

1 hour ago, meast said:

It's amazing how many batterings they get really for a club seemingly in the top echelons of the game.

That was the norm under Radford, not so under Hodgson until yesterday. I don't know what the answer is, if I did I wouldn't be sat tapping inane stuff on a keyboard.

I also have no idea of how involved Adam Pearson is as regards players signings and retention, etc. If he is involved closely then I think he needs to take a step back and let someone else run those kinds of things at the club. I think there is too much of an old pals culture there, Kirk Yeaman, Gareth Ellis and other ex players are still at the club in one form or another, are they a valuable asset to Hull FC?

If Hull FC was injury free then yesterday wouldn't have happened. We currently have a lot of talent sitting in the stand but the simple fact is if you take a handful of first teamers out of the squad then we don't have enough quality to step up and compete. There should have been enough talent on the pitch to at least be reasonably competitive yesterday but the towel soon got chucked in and that's not due to players not being good enough, it's lack of confidence and a poor mental attitude in my opinion.

And that's going to take a long time to turn round.

[Ant]

Where does the blame lie though? Hodgson who is still dealing with someone else's team? Or whoever has been making recruitment for the last few years, or player development 

[MZH]

Under Hodgson we have definitely competed more consistently. This is probably the first time we have truly rolled over under his tenure. Even when we have played poorly there has generally been a bit of fighting spirit shown. Most teams will have a scoreline like this against them from time to time so in isolation I aren't worried about that. 

What is concerning is that I really don't see what direction we are heading in. The team is built around Connor, and he is a genius who can win games single handedly. But you can't base all of your plans around one player and without him it's almost as though the rest of the team don't believe they can win. He went off injured when we were in a handy lead against Wakefield. We then promptly blew that lead. Against Catalans we looked terrible. Against Warrington we had a good dig but wouldn't have scored a try if the game had lasted a week. The Leeds game was abject.

We don't seem to have any real identity about us. Everyone just seems to be doing there own thing a lot of the time and a lot of our signings are made with no rhyme or reason to them. We need to completely overhaul the spine of the team and add in a couple of quality backs for good measure. Frankly the only player of real quality we have in the back line is Tuimavave. Then there's Swift who's perfectly decent but by no means a superstar. The rest are either past their best, promising but have a long way to go, or simply not very good (McIntosh is probably the weakest ball carrier I've ever seen. Useless)

More than just signing names though we need to figure how we are going to play and sign players that are going to fit that mould and compliment eachother. I just feel like we are putting square pegs in round holes at the minute.

The only saving grace is that we have a very good crop of under 18s currently. The problem is I can only see them being wasted. I'm so disillusioned with them right now. I've seen worse teams than this one for sure, but I've never quite had this same feeling of us just being stuck in a dead end. I haven't lost faith in Hodgson just yet, but he's got to start showing something pretty soon, and recruitment needs to be spot on.

[boris74]

The square pegs into round holes needs to stop. The first couple of sets in any game normally gives a good indication as to how a game will pan out and Saturday was no different. One side had clear purpose and made 80 metres no problem whist the other relied on one man rugby and didn't cross their own 30.

As mentioned previously this is the first hiding that a Hodgson side has received so calls for his sacking is premature imo but there is something wrong at the club as this soft underbelly has been with us for far too many years!

Lack of desire by certain players, no real shape and one out rugby will quickly turn the fans away.

We cannot continue with the jam tomorrow line...

[Loiner]

On 02/07/2022 at 19:29, Man of Kent said:

I agree. Three good teams this year - Saints, Wigan and Catalans. That’s it. 

What about Huddersfield ?

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

What about Huddersfield ?

The Castleford game put me off them. 

[redjonn]

On 03/07/2022 at 14:43, Old Frightful said:

etc etc....

If Hull FC was injury free then yesterday wouldn't have happened. We currently have a lot of talent sitting in the stand but the simple fact is if you take a handful of first teamers out of the squad then we don't have enough quality to step up and compete. There should have been enough talent on the pitch to at least be reasonably competitive yesterday but the towel soon got chucked in and that's not due to players not being good enough, it's lack of confidence and a poor mental attitude in my opinion.

And that's going to take a long time to turn round.

Just on this paragraph.

Would agree that the injuries have severely depleted Hull FC. Just have to compare the "tonking" they gave to Leeds early in season with Connor on fire (so to speak) with last weekend.

Very few sides can compete with so many first teamers out of their squad.  Apart from the top 3 the rest of SL clubs have few SL ready players outside of say a first 19... with even a few of the 19 made up of youngsters not fully developed into SL level.

I'm assuming their isn't a underlying reason for the number of injuries... maybe not rotating enough which in itself can say something about the squad, or excessive training or not resting after small niggles which then become serious injury... etc etc

Anyway just asking...

[Old Frightful]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

Just on this paragraph.

Would agree that the injuries have severely depleted Hull FC. Just have to compare the "tonking" they gave to Leeds early in season with Connor on fire (so to speak) with last weekend.

Very few sides can compete with so many first teamers out of their squad.  Apart from the top 3 the rest of SL clubs have few SL ready players outside of say a first 19... with even a few of the 19 made up of youngsters not fully developed into SL level.

I'm assuming their isn't a underlying reason for the number of injuries... maybe not rotating enough which in itself can say something about the squad, or excessive training or not resting after small niggles which then become serious injury... etc etc

Anyway just asking...

Not sure about your question as it's not obvious but if it's about the number of injuries then, I'm only a speccie so have no idea about the behind the scenes stuff.

As to squad rotation, wouldn't every SL club put their best available 17 out every week?

If you're a SL coach and keep swapping and changing every week, wouldn't that disrupt the understanding between the players?

Anyway, like I said, I'm only a speccie.

[redjonn]

10 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Not sure about your question as it's not obvious but if it's about the number of injuries then, I'm only a speccie so have no idea about the behind the scenes stuff.

As to squad rotation, wouldn't every SL club put their best available 17 out every week?

If you're a SL coach and keep swapping and changing every week, wouldn't that disrupt the understanding between the players?

Anyway, like I said, I'm only a speccie.

oky doky

of course don't want to overdo rotation. Although not sure how development happens so that when a injury crisis happens you have decent backup. Especially if the injuries hit the club going into a important game like a play-off or CC later rounds.

As you say we are just speccie's and hence can only speculate and pontificate.