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Are you sure England is better then Samoa?

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am accepting of the situation so the world cup is played, but that is not what we were discussing is it?

Well, in this particular discussion, I picked up on your word contrived, which suggested that this situation has been created purposefully while I believe it has evolved due to many circumstances (including immigration into Australia from PI communities).   International Rugby League eligibility of a lot of the pro players in Australia is a byproduct of many factors, not the intention at the outset.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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DavidM
DavidM

Don’t care who you are , this is a ban and more than one game .  

Dunbar
Dunbar

Last 3 games. 2014: England 32 Samoa 26 2017: England 30 Samoa 10 2022: England 60 Samoa 6 I am going to spend an enjoyable few minutes with a can of Birra Moretti browsing some of

gingerjon
gingerjon

It's quite an unusual feeling to be looking at international RL fixtures in major tournaments and being unsure as to who is the favourite. Love it.

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Well, in this particular discussion, I picked up on your word contrived, which suggested that this situation has been created purposefully while I believe it has evolved due to many circumstances (including immigration into Australia from PI communities).   International Rugby League eligibility of a lot of the pro players in Australia is a byproduct of many factors, not the intention at the outset.

You actually intimated that representing the Islands has developed of generations, I simply pointed out that is not correct it is a modern thing that the top class player's have come together originated over the last couple of WC's.

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Mr Frisky

Mr Frisky

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Fully expecting the England squad to be something like this (it wouldn’t be my selection):

  1. Tomkins
  2. Welsby
  3. Makinson
  4. Hall
  5. Percival 
  6. Farnworth
  7. Hardaker
  8. Smith
  9. Lomax
  10. Williams 
  11. Thompson
  12. Burgess
  13. Bateman
  14. Whitehead
  15. Knowles
  16. Cooper
  17. Leeming
  18. McIllorum
  19. Ratchford
  20. McMeeken
  21. Radley
  22. Sutton
  23. Young
  24. Batchelor

With Walmsley out we need an other big agressive prop - Chris Hill now needs to be in the squad.

I still think Farrell is a big loss as well - just a very good consistent player who is good for a try- shame after the season hes had.

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Pulga

Pulga

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Look at rugby union, Samoa and Tonga in union could have done what we did and spend all there time figuring out we’re players grandmothers were born. But no, they didn’t take the easy way they spent time and money developing born and raised talent. Tonga and Samoa Rugby League could easily attempt start to developing talent on the island but they have no interest in that, they’re whole goal is create a team of Pacific Islander ‘heritage players’. And as I said international sport always was always will be about playing you’re country (Not heritage).

The players should be allowed represent there heritage, But not against proper nations. They should play against the moari and indigenous team instead, so it is fair on the nations who actually play the sport.

You fundamentally don't understand how the union squads are comprised.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/which-team-at-the-rugby-world-cup-has-the-most-foreignborn-players-145345219.html

Do we have to listen to old white men commentate on how people should feel in a cultural context?

EVERY.DAMN.TIME

You do not get it. You don't understand the cultural significance behind these players choosing the nation they, very rightly, have. 

Why does this very specific demographic have to chirp up every time this subject is brought up?

I'm gonna call this out every time it happens too. 

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Mr Frisky

Mr Frisky

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pulga said:

You fundamentally don't understand how the union squads are comprised.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/which-team-at-the-rugby-world-cup-has-the-most-foreignborn-players-145345219.html

Do we have to listen to old white men commentate on how people should feel in a cultural context?

EVERY.DAMN.TIME

You do not get it. You don't understand the cultural significance behind these players choosing the nation they, very rightly, have. 

Why does this very specific demographic have to chirp up every time this subject is brought up?

I'm gonna call this out every time it happens too. 

Cross code forum marra?

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Pulga

Pulga

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Cross code forum marra?

Yeah, I don't want to derail this thread but the heritage rules are the same in both codes except to switch nations it you have to muck around more in RU.

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Pulga said:

You fundamentally don't understand how the union squads are comprised.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/which-team-at-the-rugby-world-cup-has-the-most-foreignborn-players-145345219.html

Do we have to listen to old white men commentate on how people should feel in a cultural context?

EVERY.DAMN.TIME

You do not get it. You don't understand the cultural significance behind these players choosing the nation they, very rightly, have. 

Why does this very specific demographic have to chirp up every time this subject is brought up?

I'm gonna call this out every time it happens too. 

I think some people genuinely struggle to understand people representing anything other than their nation of birth, or the allegiance people can feel, and pride from representing their family, or their new home nation. 

As with many things nowadays, nationality is more fluid and nuanced and I think some people don't like that. 

I can understand it to an extent, despite strongly disagreeing, but we can't allow these people to hold us back on this.

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GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

With Walmsley out we need an other big agressive prop - Chris Hill now needs to be in the squad.

I still think Farrell is a big loss as well - just a very good consistent player who is good for a try- shame after the season hes had.

I agree. But would be surprised if Wane didn’t go with the names I added. He has appeared to like Knowles in the front row at times.

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GeordieSaint

GeordieSaint

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dave T said:

I think some people genuinely struggle to understand people representing anything other than their nation of birth, or the allegiance people can feel, and pride from representing their family, or their new home nation. 

As with many things nowadays, nationality is more fluid and nuanced and I think some people don't like that. 

I can understand it to an extent, despite strongly disagreeing, but we can't allow these people to hold us back on this.

Culturally, it’s not a thing here in England for the white population - people don’t understand ‘links’ back either through ethnicity, family or other ties. Very different in other cultures though so I am always wary of bias when people complain about this. 

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Culturally, it’s not a thing here in England for the white population - people don’t understand ‘links’ back either through ethnicity, family or other ties. Very different in other cultures though so I am always wary of bias when people complain about this. 

I'm not so sure it's quite as black and white as that, we do see a lot of links back to Irish ancestry for example. 

I think it's just a bit of a less modern approach to life - and I don't know if that is a reflection of the nationalistic thinking of England, maybe one that led to Brexit etc. (I won't discuss that more and get it moved to politics). 

As you know, I lived in Scotland for over a decade, it was my home, its where I met my wife, my daughter was born there - I would have felt immense pride in representing Scotland if I was talented at owt. Scotland will always be an important part of my identity even if I never visited there again now I live back in England. 

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think some people genuinely struggle to understand people representing anything other than their nation of birth, or the allegiance people can feel, and pride from representing their family, or their new home nation. 

As with many things nowadays, nationality is more fluid and nuanced and I think some people don't like that. 

I can understand it to an extent, despite strongly disagreeing, but we can't allow these people to hold us back on this.

 

4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Culturally, it’s not a thing here in England for the white population - people don’t understand ‘links’ back either through ethnicity, family or other ties. Very different in other cultures though so I am always wary of bias when people complain about this. 

I suppose an analogy in the UK would be 2nd or 3rd generation people of Indian or Pakistani heritage representing those nations rather than England (cricket being the obvious sport).

I think it is a complex one.  On the one hand, I would absolutely recognise their right and understand their desire to represent their proud heritage

But I would be lying if I said I didn't understand the 'so you are happy to live here but not represent England' argument.  I think you have to try hard sometimes to fight some natural instincts and think through situations with empathy. 

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

 

I suppose an analogy in the UK would be 2nd or 3rd generation people of Indian or Pakistani heritage representing those nations rather than England (cricket being the obvious sport).

I think it is a complex one.  On the one hand, I would absolutely recognise their right and understand their desire to represent their proud heritage

But I would be lying if I said I didn't understand the 'so you are happy to live here but not represent England' argument.  I think you have to try hard sometimes to fight some natural instincts and think through situations with empathy. 

I think your last line is spot on. About a great number of things, not just this point. 

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SydneyRoosters

SydneyRoosters

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, Pulga said:

You fundamentally don't understand how the union squads are comprised.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/which-team-at-the-rugby-world-cup-has-the-most-foreignborn-players-145345219.html

Do we have to listen to old white men commentate on how people should feel in a cultural context?

EVERY.DAMN.TIME

You do not get it. You don't understand the cultural significance behind these players choosing the nation they, very rightly, have. 

Why does this very specific demographic have to chirp up every time this subject is brought up?

I'm gonna call this out every time it happens too. 

Are you stupid, respectfully it doesn’t matter why they choose to play for that nation or the significance behind it. If you’re from the country you’re not that nationality absolute idiot.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Are you stupid, respectfully it doesn’t matter why they choose to play for that nation or the significance behind it. If you’re from the country you’re not that nationality absolute idiot.

I don't think you can call someone stupid and an idiot and they say you are being respectful.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Pulga

Pulga

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Are you stupid, respectfully it doesn’t matter why they choose to play for that nation or the significance behind it. If you’re from the country you’re not that nationality absolute idiot.

You're wrong. It's fairly simple. 

Hell, there's whole cultures and nationalities that don't have their own land.

Bigots like Paul Kent and yourself don't seem to understand culture at all. The grandparent rule is there for a reason. There's also a reason why the IRL hasn't asked you for your input.

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anjado

anjado

Posted
Posted (edited)

England's best player at the last European championships was born in Jamaica, England's star player in the cricket world cup was born in New Zealand. 

England were beaten by Italy who had two Brazilians.

Australia's coach of the last two full kangaroo tours was English who was also one of the greatest 10 players in Australian Rugby League history. 

Nationality is far more than the country you are born in, it's a silly statement. Also It's a whine because the best players are ditching Australia and this WC may not be a procession. 

Every sport does this now it's not an issue at all it's actually exciting.

Edited by anjado
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SydneyRoosters

SydneyRoosters

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Pulga said:

You're wrong. It's fairly simple. 

Hell, there's whole cultures and nationalities that don't have their own land.

Bigots like Paul Kent and yourself don't seem to understand culture at all. The grandparent rule is there for a reason. There's also a reason why the IRL hasn't asked you for your input.

I’m wrong to so you’re nationality is the country you are born and raised in. Since when was this not a true. All I am saying for example is If you are born in Australia to Tongan grandparents you’re nationality is Australian you’re heritage is Tongan. What’s so wrong about that are you alright in the head.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, DavidM said:

So is England better than Samoa ? 
Well we just need to be better than them on the day , in the conditions so I’ll still say I’m optimistic 

 

After watching the Grand Final yesterday, I have renewed optimism for England.  I thought the speed, intensity and execution (from Saints I particular) was excellent.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Mojo

Mojo

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, anjado said:

England's best player at the last European championships was born in Jamaica, England's star player in the cricket world cup was born in New Zealand. 

England were beaten by Italy who had two Brazilians.

Australia's coach of the last two full kangaroo tours was English who was also one of the greatest 10 players in Australian Rugby League history. 

Nationality is far more than the country you are born in, it's a silly statement. Also It's a whine because the best players are ditching Australia and this WC may not be a procession. 

Every sport does this now it's not an issue at all it's actually exciting.

Exactly if these players were Jamaican or Greece no would bat an eye but because they're a threat to the big 3. Alot more people are moaning about it now and asking to change the rules

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Pulga

Pulga

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

I’m wrong to so you’re nationality is the country you are born and raised in. Since when was this not a true. All I am saying for example is If you are born in Australia to Tongan grandparents you’re nationality is Australian you’re heritage is Tongan. What’s so wrong about that are you alright in the head.

I know third generation Aussies who's second language is English. Language is a better indicator of culture than where you're born.

I don't think we need to get the finger puppets out do we? C'mon man. 

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