Are you sure England is better then Samoa?

[Mojo]

4 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

England were told by the Aussie commentators in the 2017 friendly that they would struggle as Samoa had about 15 NRL players and England only had about 4.... 80 minutes later and a very professional performance from England, showed they don't take teams for granted, as they swep Samoa to one side- NRL superstars and all.

Organisation is the key - as well as very good players and England have both.

2017 is way different to now. Samoa didn't have 9 players playing origin and 3 more who couldve played. The 2017 samoan squad was strong but definitely not as strong at it is now and the amount of depth they have now. If anything the samoan team has the potential to be better than the Tongan team. The English will always be tough, but you gotta admit the Polynesian teams are way different to the teams in 2017. Due to the increasing numbers of Polynesian players in nrl at nearly 50%. The English should be worried tbh just look at the last world cup when they just beat tonga. The Tongan team now may be better than that team.

[Sports Prophet]

Samoa top the group, then none of England, NZ and Aus can play each other in the final.

Have I got this right?

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Samoa top the group, then none of England, NZ and Aus can play each other in the final.

Have I got this right?

No.

Aus and NZ can only meet in a quarter or (more likely) the semi-final for their half of the comp - it's impossible for them to meet in the final.

England are in the other half so can only play Aus or NZ in the final. It wouldn't matter whether England finish 1st or 2nd in their group, either way they have to make the final to play Aus or NZ.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Barley Mow

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

No.

Aus and NZ can only meet in a quarter or (more likely) the semi-final for their half of the comp - it's impossible for them to meet in the final.

England are in the other half so can only play Aus or NZ in the final. It wouldn't matter whether England finish 1st or 2nd in their group, either way they have to make the final to play Aus or NZ.

Ok, I think I remember covering this anomaly before.

This is a very different case than most competitions with group stages and finals.

In normal circumstances, teams in the same group cannot meet again until the final, unlike the RLWC where it appears whether you finish first or second in your group, you still stay on the same side of the finals draw.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Sports Prophet

[Mr Frisky]

8 hours ago, Mojo said:

 Samoa didn't have 9 players playing origin and 3 more who couldve played.

There you have it... Origin is everything and SL is terrible.... just like those Aussie commentators in 2017 mate with their - " most of Englands team play SL so they are never going to beat NRL players"... now your using the mythical Origin line.

I'm sure it will be a hard game but the reason the Island nations don't usually beat the top 3 ( ok so Australia can't beat Tonga at the moment) is because of disaplin and good organisation on the pitch - and England just have better players.

England will be fine - probably have a scare then pull away - roll on that first game.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Mr Frisky

[Barley Mow]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Ok, I think I remember covering this anomaly before.

This is a very different case than most competitions with group stages and finals.

In normal circumstances, teams in the same group cannot meet again until the final, unlike the RLWC where it appears whether you finish first or second in your group, you still stay on the same side of the finals draw.

Under this year's schedule, you can only meet a team from your group for a second time in the semi-final instead of the final.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Barley Mow

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

There you have it... Origin is everything and SL is terrible.... just like those Aussie commentators in 2017 mate with their - " most of Englands team play SL so they are never going to beat NRL players"... now your using the mythical Origin line.

I'm sure it will be a hard game but the reason the Island nations don't usually beat the top 3 ( ok so Australia can't beat Tonga at the moment) is because of disaplin and good organisation on the pitch - and England just have better players.

England will be fine - probably have a scare then pull away - roll on that first game.

Never said the English will be easy but saying France will beat Samoa or even Tonga is laughable. Even you have to admit Origin is on another level.Saying the island nations hardly beat the big 3 is debatable. The last 5 years the Tongans have beaten the Kiwis and the kangaroos, and came within a whisker and almost beat the English in the semi finals of the world cup. Fiji also beat the Kiwis in that world cup. As for the England team the island nations hardly play them which is a shame because playing the England is always tough and fun to watch. My point wasn't that the nrl and Origin is better it was more of the quality of players the island nations are producing now compared to 2017. Most of the island players now are the star players for most of the NRL teams and there's so much depth to choose from, where as in the past the samoan team usually picks the players the Kiwis and kangaroos don't want. Now it's the other way around. The English will be tough without a doubt and I can't wait for that first game

[Sports Prophet]

46 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Under this year's schedule, you can only meet a team from your group for a second time in the semi-final instead of the final.

It’s very different. There is merit from an organiser perspective if you want England in the final, because it avoids Aus and NZ until a final.

Is it fair? Probably not as fair as the normal setup, but, I wouldn’t call it unfair either.

[Mr Frisky]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s very different. There is merit from an organiser perspective if you want England in the final, because it avoids Aus and NZ until a final.

Is it fair? Probably not as fair as the normal setup, but, I wouldn’t call it unfair either.

Its just similarl to many tournaments when you have 2 sides of the draw.

Ultimately you have to beat the teams infront of you to win - if NZ are the best team they will get to the final and whoever wins tje tournament will have to beat whoever is the best team.

[Sports Prophet]

40 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Its just similarl to many tournaments when you have 2 sides of the draw.

Ultimately you have to beat the teams infront of you to win - if NZ are the best team they will get to the final and whoever wins tje tournament will have to beat whoever is the best team.

Well, as I noted, it’s not a similar format to other tournaments at all. It’s actually unique.

As I said, I don’t class it as unfair though. You are right. To win it, you still have to beat the best.

[B rad]

On 28/07/2022 at 05:43, WN83 said:

I’m happy that Samoa will be strong. It will make it a tougher game potentially but I do think it helps guard against complacency from England. If we turned up playing a side not looking quite as strong on paper, we could’ve been lax and got ourselves in to trouble and we’ve been known to panic. If these names all line up for Samoa, there’s no way the England lads can look at that team and think it’ll be easy. It should be a big test and that’s fine by me. We need to see where we’re at early doors and could take huge confidence from a victory. 

It will be the most anticipated game of the pool rounds for me and a great way to open the tournament. They could field a Panthers backline minus halfback and fullback (If they don't pick Stains at fullback and nor should they). These guys are all young and have come through grade together. They know each others game and naturally play off each other. Then there is Milford who has been playing for Samoa before it was cool. He can be hit and miss but with a gun backline and forward pack full of experienced bulldozers you might see his best form from him ever.

 

I am tipping Paulo and Papalii as almost certainties to be the starting props. Haas and Tino next to no chance. They will play for Australia. There are more players eligible for Samoa then for Queensland in the NRL. The rest of their side will be very good.

 

Cant wait. It should be awesome. 

[UTK]

I'm glad we've only got around 3 months to wait now before we can start settling some of these hypothetical debates.

[B rad]

Paulo committed to Australia today, so I was wrong about that. Surprising because he has played 9 games for Samoa. I thought with all these good young players he would be onboard. Josh Aloiai from Manly is a handy back up. It gives Australia a bit more depth in front row and probably pushes them further as favorites. 

[Mojo]

5 minutes ago, B rad said:

Paulo committed to Australia today, so I was wrong about that. Surprising because he has played 9 games for Samoa. I thought with all these good young players he would be onboard. Josh Aloiai from Manly is a handy back up. It gives Australia a bit more depth in front row and probably pushes them further as favorites. 

The article is a bit confusing. It said Josh Papali'i to follow suit with Paulo and than also says Josh Papali'i is opting to play for samoa. If it's true Paulo will be a good addition to the kangaroos. For samoa they have a few solid Props to choose from. As in Aloai, Taupau, Josh McGuire and Francis Molo

[Mojo]

19 minutes ago, B rad said:

Paulo committed to Australia today, so I was wrong about that. Surprising because he has played 9 games for Samoa. I thought with all these good young players he would be onboard. Josh Aloiai from Manly is a handy back up. It gives Australia a bit more depth in front row and probably pushes them further as favorites. 

Even without Paulo the kangaroos depth is still deep. They have Collins, Tino, Haas, Carrigan and Jake Trbojevic and many that I may have missed out

[Pulga]

Would not be surprised to see Samoa beat England. But the reverse is true too. It's hard to pick.

[GeordieSaint]

I think we are underestimating England. The side will very different to what we have seen against the All Stars and we have some cracking players ourselves; even if some don’t play in the NRL. 

[Mojo]

1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think we are underestimating England. The side will very different to what we have seen against the All Stars and we have some cracking players ourselves; even if some don’t play in the NRL. 

Just a question on the England team. Nz, Aus, Tonga and Samoa have improved alot since last world cup, England from the last world cup had a really good team. But after losing 2 great players in Sam Burgess and James Graham, are England alot weaker than that team?

[GeordieSaint]

6 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Just a question on the England team. Nz, Aus, Tonga and Samoa have improved alot since last world cup, England from the last world cup had a really good team. But after losing 2 great players in Sam Burgess and James Graham, are England alot weaker than that team?

England had Gale and Brown starting in the halves, John Bateman at centre, Widdop at full back. We’ll have better players in those positions. Sam Burgess is a massive loss but we’ve got good players in Knowles and Radley to play at 13; some good props in the squad as well. All depends on how the team are set up and coached as we have some excellent players available. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 29/07/2022 at 06:22, Mr Frisky said:

There you have it... Origin is everything and SL is terrible.... just like those Aussie commentators in 2017 mate with their - " most of Englands team play SL so they are never going to beat NRL players"... now your using the mythical Origin line.

I'm sure it will be a hard game but the reason the Island nations don't usually beat the top 3 ( ok so Australia can't beat Tonga at the moment) is because of disaplin and good organisation on the pitch - and England just have better players.

England will be fine - probably have a scare then pull away - roll on that first game.

Totally agree. Am looking forward to taking the family to this one and seeing a great spectacle, a good game but crucially a winning start. I'm confident 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Harry Stottle]

On 04/07/2022 at 20:31, Mr Frisky said:

Think that's a given but I still think the Saints team of the past 2 years would have ran the NRL champs close if the WCC was played.

England arnt far away - 2017 final was very close and Australia arnt the team they were - can't currently beat Tonga - who England have never lost to.

So a result from 3 years ago is current?

I agree the Aus team will be not what it was in '17, the '22 vintage I consider will prove to be so much better as I expect we will all find out come the Autumn.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

The bookies have odds to win WC as...

England 8-1

Samoa 50-1

I assume then that the majority on this thread will make a lot of money by backing Samoa to beat England as the match odds will be great ( say about 3-1 Samoa win)

Either that or a lot of people watching SKY sports on a Saturday morning getting carried away with the glamour of the NRL.

I watch loads of it too.....I get it is a consistently great standard but so are our top players. Knowles, Lomax, Newman, etc are brilliant players who will have nigh on 50,000 partisan English screaming them on. 

I can't believe people really can't see like the bookies can that we are decent favourites to fill them in at Newcastle......

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[B rad]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The bookies have odds to win WC as...

England 8-1

Samoa 50-1

I assume then that the majority on this thread will make a lot of money by backing Samoa to beat England as the match odds will be great ( say about 3-1 Samoa win)

Either that or a lot of people watching SKY sports on a Saturday morning getting carried away with the glamour of the NRL.

I watch loads of it too.....I get it is a consistently great standard but so are our top players. Knowles, Lomax, Newman, etc are brilliant players who will have nigh on 50,000 partisan English screaming them on. 

I can't believe people really can't see like the bookies can that we are decent favourites to fill them in at Newcastle......

 

I think people (myself included) are looking at potential at the moment. Samoa could be very very strong but until all the players commit we wont know. Where as England for Australians at least are a bit out of sight out of mind. GB tour and England vs an All Stars were not really encouraging. In saying that Matt Parish has a terrible record with a fairly strong Samoa as well. The coach may be the anchor holding the national side back rather than the playing roster.

 

So much uncertainty with this game. It could be a close hard game or either side could blow the other away. We wont know until game day. 

[Scubby]

7 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The bookies have odds to win WC as...

England 8-1

Samoa 50-1

I assume then that the majority on this thread will make a lot of money by backing Samoa to beat England as the match odds will be great ( say about 3-1 Samoa win)

Either that or a lot of people watching SKY sports on a Saturday morning getting carried away with the glamour of the NRL.

I watch loads of it too.....I get it is a consistently great standard but so are our top players. Knowles, Lomax, Newman, etc are brilliant players who will have nigh on 50,000 partisan English screaming them on. 

I can't believe people really can't see like the bookies can that we are decent favourites to fill them in at Newcastle......

 

Samoa to make the final as an each way bet looks attractive. If they beat England in game 1 then their route to the final is probably PNG and Tonga.

If they lose then they would have to beat Tonga (QF) and England in the semi to reach the final.

[Dunbar]

55 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Samoa to make the final as an each way bet looks attractive. If they beat England in game 1 then their route to the final is probably PNG and Tonga.

If they lose then they would have to beat Tonga (QF) and England in the semi to reach the final.

I am not a gambler, what does an each way bet to make the final mean?