Damien Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 37 minutes ago, Rach said: So you'd take the actions of a parent out on a child who has done nothing wrong......seriously???? A child is not responsible for the actions of his parents/ adults and to make them the scapegoat is unfair and unjust. By all means take action against the parent , that should be a given but not against a child.... Well yes I would. From my experience a bad parents can have a destructive effect both on their child and the entire team. The negatives far outweigh the positives. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, Damien said: Well yes I would. From my experience a bad parents can have a destructive effect both on their child and the entire team. The negatives far outweigh the positives. Then you take action against the parents not the young player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dockhouse Host Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 3 hours ago, tim2 said: I did that. It can be a tough job. What worried me more than almost anything was perusing the disciplinary commitee findings for the YJL and seeing Match Day Managers up on charges of referee abuse. Yes I saw that once, the worst person was the touchline manager for one team, very aggressive and screaming at the ref, him and the coaches said ban me I don't care been banned before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 8 minutes ago, Davo5 said: Then you take action against the parents not the young player. How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rach Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Desert Skipper said: I know what you mean, and it is effectively punishing the child, but surely the best way to mitigate the immediate threat is to not have the parents there cheering on the child. And unless we ban spectators then the only way is to not select the child. Shame though, I agree. Ban the offending parent then but not the child . They are the issue .... Sadly the net result of this might be the child no longer plays but the opportunity to participate should not be taken away from the child on a personal level , (like dropping from the team) - they should never be held responsible for the action of adults , mearly through association by family ties. 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: It's on the parent to behave then. You really dont get it ..... As a junior Coach you have a duty of care to ALL your kids in your team to treat them fairly and with respect ,(regardless of whether their parents are a right set of *******) .Targeting and belittling a child who has done nothing wrong personally, due to the actions of others, is certainly not working within that remit and has probably safeguarding implications as well . Edited July 5, 2022 by Rach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 32 minutes ago, Damien said: How? You issue warning notices,but if the behaviour continues you ban them from attending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Davo5 said: You issue warning notices,but if the behaviour continues you ban them from attending. And what if they refuse and take no notice? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Damien said: And what if they refuse and take no notice? Really 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 29 minutes ago, Davo5 said: Really Yes. The abusive parent decides they’ve done nothing wrong but you’re on a principle of “not punishing the child”. What then? 1 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 47 minutes ago, Rach said: Ban the offending parent then but not the child . They are the issue .... Sadly the net result of this might be the child no longer plays but the opportunity to participate should not be taken away from the child on a personal level , (like dropping from the team) - they should never be held responsible for the action of adults , mearly through association by family ties. You really dont get it ..... As a junior Coach you have a duty of care to ALL your kids in your team to treat them fairly and with respect ,(regardless of whether their parents are a right set of *******) .Targeting and belittling a child who has done nothing wrong personally, due to the actions of others, is certainly not working within that remit and has probably safeguarding implications as well . No, I get it. Safeguarding has absolutely nothing to do with this. Well, beyond doing what’s required to get an abusive adult out of the way. 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Rach said: Ban the offending parent then but not the child . They are the issue .... Sadly the net result of this might be the child no longer plays but the opportunity to participate should not be taken away from the child on a personal level , (like dropping from the team) - they should never be held responsible for the action of adults , mearly through association by family ties. You really dont get it ..... As a junior Coach you have a duty of care to ALL your kids in your team to treat them fairly and with respect ,(regardless of whether their parents are a right set of *******) .Targeting and belittling a child who has done nothing wrong personally, due to the actions of others, is certainly not working within that remit and has probably safeguarding implications as well . Saying ban the parent is so simplistic it's funny. Things like that just aren't feasible in the real world. The club I have coached at had a code of conduct that all children and parents had to adhere to. They have a responsibility to do their part and to be respectful. That is in the interest of all children, not just one. They also have to attend yearly meetings where their responsibility is made quite clear. Parents have an obligation to take responsibility for their actions. As a coach it is absolutely your responsibility to safeguard all of the children under your care. I have seen teams fall to pieces and players leave because of disruptive parents. I have seen players hate playing because of other parents and their actions from the sidelines. Coaches are volunteers and deal with an awful lot of ###### too. Also no one has said belittling children, that's strawman stuff. As this is a thread regarding abandoned games we are talking about serious incidents. I fortunately have never had to deal with any major incidents, as described on this thread, or ban anybody. I have had to warn parents about their behaviour though and remind them that these are just kids. However if the incident was serious enough then I'd absolutely support a coach in warning parents that if they don't improve their behaviour then their child won't play. Parents can either take note or take their children elsewhere. It's called taking responsibility for your actions. Edited July 5, 2022 by Damien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonM Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 On 04/07/2022 at 18:35, Dunbar said: I know it's not funny but that did make me laugh. There didn't seem to be any issues with the game that would cause trouble apart from the player going into the crowd and arguing with the fans. To be clear, the game itself didn't seem to be a violent one, nor did there appear to be any particular bad feeling between the teams. The match video obviously focuses on the game rather than what is going on in the stand below, and we only get to see the crowd problem at the point at which the referee stops the game, and then only the front few rows, from above. At that time, one of the West Hull players appears to be defending himself from a fairly irate woman in the stand. I don't know the circumstances which led to him being there - he may have been assaulted while stood on the sideline, he may have been appealing for calm, he may have run in to join a fight. At least one of the West Hull players appears to be involved in getting a younger sibling out of the melee. The Dewsbury Moor players do all stay away from the trouble. Certainly plenty of Fev stewards on hand, and no shortage of witnesses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe syszlak Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 I've seen a super league legend storming onto the pitch at the end of a game his son's team lost to confront and remonstrate with a young referee. Not a good example to set!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigbyLuger Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 5 hours ago, Moe syszlak said: I've seen a super league legend storming onto the pitch at the end of a game his son's team lost to confront and remonstrate with a young referee. Not a good example to set!! If its who I think it is, he's a legend in his own mind only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rach Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 12 hours ago, Damien said: . It's called taking responsibility for your actions. You've just said it yourself - having some responsibility for your actions . The actions are those of the parent not the child ..... the responsibility lies with the parent not the child , and should be delt with as such ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 14 hours ago, Davo5 said: You issue warning notices,but if the behaviour continues you ban them from attending. How do you ban people from attending an open playing field? By all means if its enclosed you can stop them coming in but have you been to a lot of amateur grounds? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moe syszlak Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 4 hours ago, RigbyLuger said: If its who I think it is, he's a legend in his own mind only! It's not Bobbie Goulding, whose behaviour at his sons games is well known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 56 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said: How do you ban people from attending an open playing field? By all means if its enclosed you can stop them coming in but have you been to a lot of amateur grounds? Relatively easily if you are committed to it and yes I have seen it done on more than one occasion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwalker71 Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, The Blues Ox said: How do you ban people from attending an open playing field? By all means if its enclosed you can stop them coming in but have you been to a lot of amateur grounds? Yeah, the games I was talking about earlier were on council-owned recreation pitches. The club couldn't enclose it even if they wanted to. When it's parents causing trouble, the only sensible course is to ban the child. My guess is that most parents will control themselves if their kid is going to get banned. Edited July 6, 2022 by paulwalker71 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 7 hours ago, LeeF said: Relatively easily if you are committed to it and yes I have seen it done on more than one occasion Explain how if it is not private owned land please. My local ground has a public footpath about 5 yards away from the pitch, we literally could not stop anyone from standing there even if we wanted. Luckily its not something we have ever had a problem with but if we did the only real threat we could give would be to stop the child playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bondi Cannon Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 I refereed a game once here in NZ where a guy who was clearly on something began stalking up and down the sideline behind my touch judge threatening him. I stopped the game, went and sat down and told them it wouldn’t restart until he went. Two quite large blokes picked him up, one under each arm and disappeared into the distance. He did not return and we played on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavin7094 Posted July 6, 2022 Share Posted July 6, 2022 On 05/07/2022 at 12:34, SUPERSTUD said: ALWAYS in Yorkshire. Come on. Worst I have eve witnessed was at Whitehaven. Really unpleasant personal abuse aimed at the ref and both touch judges from a family group in particular but also a significant number of other spectators. They had 4 or 5 young children with them too. Stewards were there and tactically ignored it. Even a Haven fan standing near me was apologetic about it. Said it happened every week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 16 hours ago, The Blues Ox said: Explain how if it is not private owned land please. My local ground has a public footpath about 5 yards away from the pitch, we literally could not stop anyone from standing there even if we wanted. Luckily its not something we have ever had a problem with but if we did the only real threat we could give would be to stop the child playing. I’ve seen it done at 2 local amateur clubs where the clubs were categorically told there would be no referees unless they sorted the issue. Both played on public parks. Also a referee I know refused to continue to referee a game unless a parent was removed from the public park. The club unsurprisingly got the parent to leave (the parent was already “banned” from matches). If the club is serious about stopping referee abuse then they will sort it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted July 7, 2022 Share Posted July 7, 2022 12 hours ago, gavin7094 said: Worst I have eve witnessed was at Whitehaven. Really unpleasant personal abuse aimed at the ref and both touch judges from a family group in particular but also a significant number of other spectators. They had 4 or 5 young children with them too. Stewards were there and tactically ignored it. Even a Haven fan standing near me was apologetic about it. Said it happened every week. Unfortunately it happens everywhere and with the lack of real leadership and enforcement from the very top the “Respect” campaign is just meaningless words and slides 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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