Value for sponsors

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And now we don't have that sponsorship and none came along after it.

The deal did have value. It was on the same terms as clubs and leagues have hydration partners (for example) where all that happens is free drinks get provided.

They were never announced as the SL gaining a new major sponsor. 180 pizzas a round (at cost price) for this is not great value sponsorship - it is desperation.

https://superleague.co.uk/article/1522/betfred-super-league-deal-with-papa-johns

https://www.totalrl.com/free-pizzas-but-no-cash-for-super-league/

But League Express understands they will not get any money for the partnership, which sees the pizza powerhouse get matchday advertising on touchline billboards, as well as an acknowledgement at the start of Super League’s video content.

[EastLondonMike]

I was fine with the initial Papa Johns deal. There was no real value to it as it had never been done before, there was no comparable data to add a value. But there was an opportunity to generate value and create an asset that could be commercialised. For whatever reason that wasn't achieved, and will probably making such a thing even harder should it be tried again.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They were never announced as the SL gaining a new major sponsor. 180 pizzas a round (at cost price) for this is not great value sponsorship - it is desperation.

https://superleague.co.uk/article/1522/betfred-super-league-deal-with-papa-johns

https://www.totalrl.com/free-pizzas-but-no-cash-for-super-league/

But League Express understands they will not get any money for the partnership, which sees the pizza powerhouse get matchday advertising on touchline billboards, as well as an acknowledgement at the start of Super League’s video content.

I think the point is that if it was pushed by the clubs and the RFL and not made fun of, and then Papa John saw the potential uplift that this type of low level marketing could have they may have said "well in that case if we spend xyz we then get exponentially more".. as it was treated with scorn and ridicule they potentially then thought it was actually detrimental to be associated with such a sport, and other companies would also have seen the way they were treated and potentially thought "if we get involved would we get the same?". 

Papa Johns contributed free product and nothing more, however, it saved the clubs some pennies on food and it was another "partner" to add to the list (one that is very very short). It COULD have possibly gone on and done more but in the end it left... it cost nothing to us therefore there was only upside but people only saw "free" and "no money" and then ridiculed it.. so we get nothing.. again!

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They were never announced as the SL gaining a new major sponsor. 180 pizzas a round (at cost price) for this is not great value sponsorship - it is desperation.

So, quick google, that's apparently £2 per pizza.

£360 per week.

27 regular rounds.

£9,720.

5 play off matches (let's call it another round) - £360

Total: a bit over £10,000 in kind.

Not spectacular but nowhere near as awful as the howling about it made out.

[Barry Badrinath]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

But I did. In fact they are the only one I really recall off the top of my head

i probably didn't remember them as they were a company i was familiar with previously, as you say, big business, had previously super bowl half time spots, high profile.  They got thrown in with the others and not made a big thing of

 

not on the high street were the advert on most touchline ads and the ad breaks on tv broadcasts. It stuck in my mind as i'd never heard of it before and compared to tk maxx/tj hughes/ and all the other discount clothes retailers that have been absorbed by amazon i was surprised i hadn't heard of them.

 

Hertz were all over the programs and paraphernalia iirc.

[Scubby]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So, quick google, that's apparently £2 per pizza.

£360 per week.

27 regular rounds.

£9,720.

5 play off matches (let's call it another round) - £360

Total: a bit over £10,000 in kind.

Not spectacular but nowhere near as awful as the howling about it made out.

The deal was only struck in August IIRC so maybe only 10-15 rounds top. Not sure it was there in 2021 but I may be wrong. 

Add into the fact of costs of creatives, placement labour and others formatting billboard advertising and digital it will probably have struggled to wipe its feet. Also, the RFL/SL then failed to upgrade (or replace) this agreement and it just disappeared - which falls on the commercial department. 

If the best your commercial dept can come up with is a few free pizzas then it has a domino effect on the rest of its operations.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Scubby

[Damien]

20 minutes ago, RP London said:

I think the point is that if it was pushed by the clubs and the RFL and not made fun of, and then Papa John saw the potential uplift that this type of low level marketing could have they may have said "well in that case if we spend xyz we then get exponentially more".. as it was treated with scorn and ridicule they potentially then thought it was actually detrimental to be associated with such a sport, and other companies would also have seen the way they were treated and potentially thought "if we get involved would we get the same?". 

Papa Johns contributed free product and nothing more, however, it saved the clubs some pennies on food and it was another "partner" to add to the list (one that is very very short). It COULD have possibly gone on and done more but in the end it left... it cost nothing to us therefore there was only upside but people only saw "free" and "no money" and then ridiculed it.. so we get nothing.. again!

When players are even taking the ###### on social media is it any wonder that companies don't want to partner like this.

[whatmichaelsays]

30 minutes ago, Barry Badrinath said:

2013 had obscure sponsors.

 

Not on the high street, online clothes retailer.

 

Hertz rent a car, a bit more well known but not exactly a day to day company (unlike bachelors)

From recollection, Specsavers, Hertz, Marriott, GoDaddy, Singa Beer, Moss Bros and Gatorade would all make for a decent sponsorship portfolio today. Yes, some of those deals (probably Gatorade and Moss Bros, and almost certainly Marriott for example) would be contra deals, but they'd be deals that were still of notable value. 

Having "obscure" sponsors isn't necessarily as bad thing and can actually be something that RL uses as a strength - many "smaller" brands are priced-out of other sports but still see sports sponsorship as part of their marketing mix - and with the right nurturing, these smaller deals can grow. The question really is about what value we offer to the sponsors that we do attract - because what we seem to have a lot of churn both at the league-level and club level and we have a very inconsistent proposition. 

Losing sponsors/clients is a part of life - the worry is when you don't seem to have a decent enough pipeline to replace those sponsors/clients when you do lose them. A quick look back at the Super League website on Wayback machine reminds me of partners like Irn-Bru, Dewalt Tools, Elonex, Alcatel, Dacia, Izuzu, Vavoline, Falken Tyres, Co-Operative, Gilette, Brut and Tissot. We seem to be OK at replacing the booze and betting sponsors with a new equivalent, but where are the equivalent sponsors today from the soft drink, hardware, automotive, tech, retail, personal hygene and jewellry sectors? 

[RP London]

10 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The deal was only struck in August IIRC so maybe only 10-15 rounds top. Not sure it was there in 2021 but I may be wrong. 

Add into the fact of costs of creatives, placement labour and others formatting billboard advertising and digital it will probably have struggled to wipe its feet. Also, the RFL/SL then failed to upgrade (or replace) this agreement and it just disappeared - which falls on the commercial department. 

If the best your commercial dept can come up with is a few free pizzas then it has a domino effect on the rest of its operations.

well it would have had that effect but we were such nay sayers about it they didnt bid against Papa Johns the next time the "official Pizza suppliers sponsorship" came up for grabs (when we could have monetized it)

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

When players are even taking the ###### on social media is it any wonder that companies don't want to partner like this.

exactly.. 

we dont have the money to sponsor RL as a company (then again maybe we do to be honest) but its not something I would look at due to this type of attitude... we have sponsored a cycling team in the area (very good push on social media, great set of people to get involved with, helped develop product and help build things) and the local Hockey clubs (again pretty good) and had an ad board at Newcastle Thunder..  my next port of call would be Womens Football... but RL would be low down on my list due to the negativity I see towards sponsors to be honest. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by RP London

[Oxford]

21 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Might not be allowed on TV here

Given something Like Cooking with the Stars where every advert ends with a Marks& Sparks plug as sponsors of the programme I think this is unlikely.

And isn't it the BETFRED MOM?

[Scubby]

I watch Fox Sports, NRL 360 and other shows and they are literally pouring out with sponsors. RL can't even get a sponsor for the big screen (video ref) and seem to be giving away significant parts of its offerings to Betfred when they chuck then a few more quid. 

The England shirt sponsorship for the RLWC should be one of the most lucrative opportunities the RFL has to sell this year. It seems apparent they have failed to land a significant sponsor and probably asked BetFred for a few quid to save face.

[whatmichaelsays]

25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

So, quick google, that's apparently £2 per pizza.

£360 per week.

27 regular rounds.

£9,720.

5 play off matches (let's call it another round) - £360

Total: a bit over £10,000 in kind.

Not spectacular but nowhere near as awful as the howling about it made out.

I remember doing some rough maths at the time on the Papa Johns deal and worked out that the cash value of what they were getting back was (on a generous estimate) around £2.5k per five game weekly round (remember that Toronto had pulled out of the league by then) - so £250 per club. I don't know what clubs typically spend feeding their players and staff after a game, but it's likely more than £250 each. 

That was based on the typical rack rate of pitchside advertising at an RL ground, as well as a rough calculation of what the YouTube sponsorship was worth, based on the Super League average viewer number and a typical YouTube pre-roll ad value £6.00 per thousand views.

This is where the "value" part of the discussion is really important because whilst it's really easy to blame the Papa Johns deal - a pretty insignificant deal in itself - on a failure of salesmanship, the truth is it's a failure of value-add. Ignore all of the negative PR that comes with Sam Tomkins tweeting that he doesn't like tuna on a pizza for a second - the real issue here is that if the Super League YouTube channel is only averaging 40k views a week, the value of any sponsorship deal is going to be limited even with the best salesperson in the world. 

 

 

[RigbyLuger]

11 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Given something Like Cooking with the Stars where every advert ends with a Marks& Sparks plug as sponsors of the programme I think this is unlikely.

And isn't it the BETFRED MOM?

Depends how you do it. The complexities of product placement/sponsorship are beyond my knowledge of stuff!

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Depends how you do it. The complexities of product placement/sponsorship are beyond my knowledge of stuff!

IMG will be the dogs doodahs on all that stuff and that side of it will never be a worry.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Oxford

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Barry Badrinath said:

2013 had obscure sponsors.

 

Not on the high street, online clothes retailer.

 

Hertz rent a car, a bit more well known but not exactly a day to day company (unlike bachelors)

GoDaddy, EZE Group, Laurent-Perrier, Specsavers, getthelabel.com, Moss Bros, National Lottery, Marriott, Hertz, Wales, Gullivers Sports Travel, Programmemaster, Wooden Spoon, Ticketmaster, Steeden, Centurion, BOC, Vivomed, Heartsine, Singha, Gatorade, Thirsty Planet and MyClubBetting.com.

According to a Google link this was the panel of sponsors - I know this wasn't the final list. 

[EastLondonMike]

13 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I watch Fox Sports, NRL 360 and other shows and they are literally pouring out with sponsors. RL can't even get a sponsor for the big screen (video ref) and seem to be giving away significant parts of its offerings to Betfred when they chuck then a few more quid. 

The England shirt sponsorship for the RLWC should be one of the most lucrative opportunities the RFL has to sell this year. It seems apparent they have failed to land a significant sponsor and probably asked BetFred for a few quid to save face.

I've noticed NRL 360 even have sponsorship from a golf clubs manufacturer now!.. And they pull out a driver or wood on screen.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I remember doing some rough maths at the time on the Papa Johns deal and worked out that the cash value of what they were getting back was (on a generous estimate) around £2.5k per five game weekly round (remember that Toronto had pulled out of the league by then) - so £250 per club. I don't know what clubs typically spend feeding their players and staff after a game, but it's likely more than £250 each. 

That was based on the typical rack rate of pitchside advertising at an RL ground, as well as a rough calculation of what the YouTube sponsorship was worth, based on the Super League average viewer number and a typical YouTube pre-roll ad value £6.00 per thousand views.

This is where the "value" part of the discussion is really important because whilst it's really easy to blame the Papa Johns deal - a pretty insignificant deal in itself - on a failure of salesmanship, the truth is it's a failure of value-add. Ignore all of the negative PR that comes with Sam Tomkins tweeting that he doesn't like tuna on a pizza for a second - the real issue here is that if the Super League YouTube channel is only averaging 40k views a week, the value of any sponsorship deal is going to be limited even with the best salesperson in the world. 

 

 

Agreed. Focusing on root cause is really important. I often think we try to 'fix' the wrong thing. 

[Exiled Townie]

10 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

We need internationals to attract sponsors in and now we have free to air coverage, we cam hopefully retain them.  

There was a piece on our local tv news this morning about womens football. Not about players or a big tournament that's coming up but how it has grown thanks to the international games they play, and as one interviewee said "the sponsors are fighting to come aboard". 

[RigbyLuger]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Townie said:

There was a piece on our local tv news this morning about womens football. Not about players or a big tournament that's coming up but how it has grown thanks to the international games they play, and as one interviewee said "the sponsors are fighting to come aboard". 

It's the area of the sport that has massive growth potential, much like the wheelchair game, but shoved in with Betfred for a monetary amount that's never publicised.

[Oxford]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Agreed. Focusing on root cause is really important. I often think we try to 'fix' the wrong thing. 

The is a predominantly English issue and disease IMO Dave. Though looking at the US they suffer from this pandemic far more than we do.

Using football as an example could be misleading as they could sneeze and find willing sponsors to put their name to it.

[EastLondonMike]

8 minutes ago, Exiled Townie said:

There was a piece on our local tv news this morning about womens football. Not about players or a big tournament that's coming up but how it has grown thanks to the international games they play, and as one interviewee said "the sponsors are fighting to come aboard". 

I noticed this morning England Women's football team (I guess through the FA?) have signed a deal with Doritos/Pepsi Max to help provide coaching/development funding.

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's the area of the sport that has massive growth potential, much like the wheelchair game, but shoved in with Betfred for a monetary amount that's never publicised.

A really disappointing element of the women's game of RL is that we have the same sponsors. 

Women's sport is a real opportunity to tap into new audiences and partners. 

Our approach is to lump sponsorships in with the men's game and play the games as pre-match entertainment for the men's games. 

[Damien]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

GoDaddy, EZE Group, Laurent-Perrier, Specsavers, getthelabel.com, Moss Bros, National Lottery, Marriott, Hertz, Wales, Gullivers Sports Travel, Programmemaster, Wooden Spoon, Ticketmaster, Steeden, Centurion, BOC, Vivomed, Heartsine, Singha, Gatorade, Thirsty Planet and MyClubBetting.com.

According to a Google link this was the panel of sponsors - I know this wasn't the final list. 

Some pretty big name. Few seem to have come back though for this years RLWC though which is disappointing - The National Lottery (presumably a pretty standard at UK events like this with their funding) and Gatorade are the only ones I think.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Some pretty big name. Few seem to have come back though for this years RLWC though which is disappointing - The National Lottery (presumably a pretty standard at UK events like this with their funding) and Gatorade are the only ones I think.

We are notoriously bad at retaining sponsors. We have very very few that get involved in multiple sponsors. 

I really think this is where an international calendar is crucial. You can't really sign up sponsors for long terms as there are lean years in between world cups. 

But even locally, to turn only one of those new sponaors into a UK sponsor (Specsavers) is poor.