Odsal Sports City

[Martyn Sadler]

28 minutes ago, Amber Avenger said:

Martyn, with the greatest of respect - it looks like we live in completely separate realities. I'm trying to chose my words carefully here, but I find it hard to believe someone could read everything I've posted in here, and then seriously suggest my next step is to lobby Bradford Council (I haven't lived in Bradford for 17 years incidentally, but I do go back often). 

But here we are, someone who works in the game, and knows the pain this club and the fans have gone through and suggests that I as a fan - who has poured his heart out sharing some of that pain - should be doing more even more to back an institution I have literally just told you I have no faith in. Ok then. I'm so so tired of talking into a void. Faith has run out, I cannot keep backing things on people's say so. 

There is more than enough in my initial post in this thread if you are genuinely curious about my feelings on the more immediate issues facing the club but I'm not particularly minded to discuss it further with you - like I said, there's more than enough evidence we won't see eye to eye and I don't think either of us have much new to say.  

If in the event Odsal does get some levelling up funding, I'm happy to come back and discuss as the landscape will have changed significantly - but until then (!), for my own sake and nobody else's, I cannot keep coming back and discussing history repeating itself at the club. 

A curious reply!

I'd still like to know what you mean by "accountability" in a club context.

It's actually an important question and I'd been hoping you had a clear idea of what you meant.

If it was simply a word you plucked out of the air, without giving any real thought to what it meant, then of course you don't need to explain it.

[Dallas Mead]

6 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

My opinion of Nigel has modified over time, partly because of learning more about what actually went on at the RFL and partly because of what happened after he left the RFL.

But I don't really think he will ever be my BFF.

So don't get jealous. He won't be replacing you in that regard.

How did he invest his £300,000 pay off Martyn?  Any intel?

[Martyn Sadler]

3 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

How did he invest his £300,000 pay off Martyn?  Any intel?

That's entirely a matter for him.

[Oxford]

4 hours ago, Amber Avenger said:

it looks like we live in completely separate realities.

I don't know how to phrase this exactly, but how about ........drum roll

You always were!

And citing Bradford as somehow unique evidence ...er can't support that.

I'll let you in to the secret though we're all subject to our own "Different Realities" which is why people disagree, politics is fake and forums are so much fun.

[Dallas Mead]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

That's entirely a matter for him.

Indeed, such a well deserved pay off given the finances of the game at the time.  Probably 7/8 full time development officers for a year.  Disgraceful.

[Martyn Sadler]

33 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

Indeed, such a well deserved pay off given the finances of the game at the time.  Probably 7/8 full time development officers for a year.  Disgraceful.

It was a payoff he was entitled to after the termination of his contract, just like anyone else whose contract is terminated by an employer.

Given his success in negotiating deals worth £225 million with Sky and the British government, I think it could be argued that his payment was hardly excessive.

It's also worth pointing out that the RFL's financial strength had improved significantly under his stewardship.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see development officers all over the UK.

But the source of the necessary funds, in my opinion, should come from a reduction in the overseas quota. In other words it should come out of the money paid under the broadcasting contract, not by denying someone a severance payment that they are legally entitled to.

[LeeF]

5 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

My opinion of Nigel has modified over time, partly because of learning more about what actually went on at the RFL and partly because of what happened after he left the RFL.

But I don't really think he will ever be my BFF.

So don't get jealous. He won't be replacing you in that regard.

My translation of that is Nigel’s performance at the RFL looks better in hindsight only because he was succeeded by Ralph?
 

Martyn - do you seriously believe he has done a good job at Bradford?

[Martyn Sadler]

58 minutes ago, LeeF said:

My translation of that is Nigel’s performance at the RFL looks better in hindsight only because he was succeeded by Ralph?
 

Martyn - do you seriously believe he has done a good job at Bradford?

Like all of us, Ralph has strengths and weaknesses.

Nigel's strength is his financial acuity, which was shown in the Sky deal and in his negotiations with George Osborne.

In terms of the job at Bradford, if he can get the development of Odsal off the ground with Levelling-Up funding, he will have done a great job.

But of course it's too early to pass judgement on that one.

I think he's done a very bad job of communicating with the supporters. That has never been his strong point. The result of that is that a lot of the attacks on him, including my own when he was the RFL CEO, were often unfair. He was targeted by some club owners who wanted some of the powers that he had and who resented the fact that Nigel channeled a significant proportion of the Sky money to the non-Super League clubs.

I only hope he isn't driven out of Bradford before the levelling-up project comes to fruition.

[LeeF]

4 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Like all of us, Ralph has strengths and weaknesses.

Nigel's strength is his financial acuity, which was shown in the Sky deal and in his negotiations with George Osborne.

In terms of the job at Bradford, if he can get the development of Odsal off the ground with Levelling-Up funding, he will have done a great job.

But of course it's too early to pass judgement on that one.

I think he's done a very bad job of communicating with the supporters. That has never been his strong point. The result of that is that a lot of the attacks on him, including my own when he was the RFL CEO, were often unfair. He was targeted by some club owners who wanted some of the powers that he had and who resented the fact that Nigel channeled a significant proportion of the Sky money to the non-Super League clubs.

I only hope he isn't driven out of Bradford before the levelling-up project comes to fruition.

I would love to know what Ralph’s strengths are. They are definitely not visible.

As for Nigel, surely a key skill for the roles he has and has had are clear communication with all partners. He has failed in this aspect for many years. 
 

I hope, for any Bradford fans sake, that something positive happens in the near future but I wouldn’t be putting any money on it

[Mumby Magic]

So Nigel's negative is communication. However without this the fans are dwindling. 1000 in a new stadium won't pay the rates.

[The Future is League]

18 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I would love to know what Ralph’s strengths are. They are definitely not visible.

As for Nigel, surely a key skill for the roles he has and has had are clear communication with all partners. He has failed in this aspect for many years. 
 

I hope, for any Bradford fans sake, that something positive happens in the near future but I wouldn’t be putting any money on it

Well Ralph knows how to be the invisible man for sure

In fact i can't recall anybody in the game singing his praises, not unless i was asleep when it happened

[The Future is League]

1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

So Nigel's negative is communication. However without this the fans are dwindling. 1000 in a new stadium won't pay the rates.

Didn't he say that he wasn't taking any questions from the floor on a recent fans forum?

[Martyn Sadler]

54 minutes ago, LeeF said:

As for Nigel, surely a key skill for the roles he has and has had are clear communication with all partners. He has failed in this aspect for many years.

If you refer to "all partners", that's pretty comprehensive and almost certainly true.

If you had said "key partners", that's more relevant.

The truth is that he has succeeded with some key partners, particularly Sky and the government.

He certainly failed to get many things across to the media, which is also a key partner.

I'm happy for you to give some more examples of partners he failed to communicate with.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Like all of us, Ralph has strengths and weaknesses.

Nigel's strength is his financial acuity, which was shown in the Sky deal and in his negotiations with George Osborne.

Troy Grant on replacing Nigel Wood as head of the IRL

“When I went in as chairman, our finances were done on Excel spreadsheets, I’ve seen school tuck shops’ finances run more professionally.

“We now have proper strategies and committees in place. I’ve tried to professionalise the organisation so we’re in a better position to have a professional conversation with professional leagues.

“They’ve got to have trust in us and we’ve missed that opportunity to do that in the past.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18981478/rugby-league-world-cup-tests/

Edited July 21, 2022 by Scubby

[LeeF]

7 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

If you refer to "all partners", that's pretty comprehensive and almost certainly true.

If you had said "key partners", that's more relevant.

The truth is that he has succeeded with some key partners, particularly Sky and the government.

He certainly failed to get many things across to the media, which is also a key partner.

I'm happy for you to give some more examples of partners he failed to communicate with.

Surely the fans, both of the game in general when at the RFL and the ones of the Bulls, are the primary key partners. He has and continues to fail both sets.

His communication in general falls well short of what you would expect of someone in the roles he has had. The only saving grace is that he was better than the present incumbent at the RFL

[Mumby Magic]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Didn't he say that he wasn't taking any questions from the floor on a recent fans forum?

But didn't.....

[Dallas Mead]

3 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

It was a payoff he was entitled to after the termination of his contract, just like anyone else whose contract is terminated by an employer.

Given his success in negotiating deals worth £225 million with Sky and the British government, I think it could be argued that his payment was hardly excessive.

It's also worth pointing out that the RFL's financial strength had improved significantly under his stewardship.

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to see development officers all over the UK.

But the source of the necessary funds, in my opinion, should come from a reduction in the overseas quota. In other words it should come out of the money paid under the broadcasting contract, not by denying someone a severance payment that they are legally entitled to.

He was a completely embarrassing head man at the RFL for reasons we all know.  What % of RL fans would argue with that assertion would you say?  That payoff was a disgrace.

[Martyn Sadler]

16 hours ago, LeeF said:

Surely the fans, both of the game in general when at the RFL and the ones of the Bulls, are the primary key partners. He has and continues to fail both sets.

His communication in general falls well short of what you would expect of someone in the roles he has had. The only saving grace is that he was better than the present incumbent at the RFL

I agree that the major criticism of Nigel Wood is his communication and PR skills.

I suspect that he would also agree with that.

[Martyn Sadler]

16 hours ago, Scubby said:

Troy Grant on replacing Nigel Wood as head of the IRL

“When I went in as chairman, our finances were done on Excel spreadsheets, I’ve seen school tuck shops’ finances run more professionally.

“We now have proper strategies and committees in place. I’ve tried to professionalise the organisation so we’re in a better position to have a professional conversation with professional leagues.

“They’ve got to have trust in us and we’ve missed that opportunity to do that in the past.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/18981478/rugby-league-world-cup-tests/

I referred to financial acuity.

That isn't determined by what typo of software you keep your accounting records on.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I agree that the major criticism of Nigel Wood is his communication and PR skills.

I suspect that he would also agree with that.

He actually wasn't available for comment 

[Martyn Sadler]

16 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

He was a completely embarrassing head man at the RFL for reasons we all know.  What % of RL fans would argue with that assertion would you say?  That payoff was a disgrace.

If you look back at his time at the RFL and his achievements while he was there, which of the following do you think were embarrassing?

1. His creation of the Magic Weekend, which was opposed by many at the time, but which has now been copied by the NRL.

2. His decision to do away with licensing for Super League, bringing back the chance for non-Super League clubs to win promotion on the field.

3. His role as tournament director of the World Cup in 2013 with a record number of teams, which was far more successful than the 2017 tournament that was run by the Australians.

4. His decision to share out the £200 million from the Sky deal among all the clubs in the RFL, not just the Super League clubs, which was ultimately the decision that led to his downfall as many Super League clubs thought they should get all the money. That's when they began to edge him out. I assume you agree with them.

5. His deal with the government that resulted in £25 million support for the World Cup tournament that was originally set for 2021.

6. The allocation out of that £25 million of £10 million to invest in the community game and that has led to the improvement of facilities at many of those clubs.

[Martyn Sadler]

8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He actually wasn't available for comment 

Perhaps you should give him some coaching.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Perhaps you should give him some coaching.

I'm too busy trying to get Ralph Rimmer out of his panic room.

[Dave T]

34 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

If you look back at his time at the RFL and his achievements while he was there, which of the following do you think were embarrassing?

1. His creation of the Magic Weekend, which was opposed by many at the time, but which has now been copied by the NRL.

2. His decision to do away with licensing for Super League, bringing back the chance for non-Super League clubs to win promotion on the field.

3. His role as tournament director of the World Cup in 2013 with a record number of teams, which was far more successful than the 2017 tournament that was run by the Australians.

4. His decision to share out the £200 million from the Sky deal among all the clubs in the RFL, not just the Super League clubs, which was ultimately the decision that led to his downfall as many Super League clubs thought they should get all the money. That's when they began to edge him out. I assume you agree with them.

5. His deal with the government that resulted in £25 million support for the World Cup tournament that was originally set for 2021.

6. The allocation out of that £25 million of £10 million to invest in the community game and that has led to the improvement of facilities at many of those clubs.

Whilst I don't think all of those things were necessarily the best decisions, I think it was impossible to deny that Wood was a man who could get things done. I get the impression that he pees some people off with his negotiating style and his strategies but then despite the recent rewriting of history, Maurice Lyndsay was very unpopular with many people too. 

Leaders aren't there to be popular, and he absolutely was a person who delivered. My personal view is we could have been better in many areas, but I do think he was unfairly judged by many. It doesn't help when you are leader during a pretty controversial time, around licensing, scrapping of P&R etc which as we see on here are some of the hottest topics in the game. Wood is clearly visionary in some areas, particularly around internationals, but I do think he's a little too traditional around the club game and that showed with removing licensing, super 9s and more even distributions. Whether you see that as a good thing is open to personal opinion. 

Like you, I feel his comms is his worst quality - and tbh, I think the culture is still there. We seem to be so nervous of saying anything of merit - Rimmer almost sees it as a game, how many words he can say without giving anything away. 

 

[RigbyLuger]

If there had been an inquiry into the running of the Bulls, the sale of Odsal and the RFLs say in both, we may have had answers.