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Northern Union v New Zealand, Athletic Ground, Cheltenham 1908.


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42 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It was all horrible. Played at Warrington if I remember in front of about 6k. Couldn't even get a top class Aussie to be the Dally Messenger. We are so bad at this stuff and don't see any value in doing things properly.

Yes it was at Warrington, Saturday night game I think. All very strange. Still not entirely got my head around it. 

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Fascinating. Thank you!!!

Particularly loved the rather quaint "these are the differences page". Does the layout of the forwards - 4 and 2 - mean anything or was that just how the typesetter squeezed them in, it seems inconsistent with how the backs naames are arranged in a rough formation as we are used to seeing today.

Does anyone know if there was a reason for the venue? It does not appear an obvious one for a 'Northern Union' team??

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4 hours ago, stevecl said:

Fascinating. Thank you!!!

Particularly loved the rather quaint "these are the differences page". Does the layout of the forwards - 4 and 2 - mean anything or was that just how the typesetter squeezed them in, it seems inconsistent with how the backs naames are arranged in a rough formation as we are used to seeing today.

Does anyone know if there was a reason for the venue? It does not appear an obvious one for a 'Northern Union' team??

Someone must have thought they’d try to expand the game, I expect the Northern Union soon put a stop to that ridiculous idea. 

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4 hours ago, stevecl said:Does anyone know if there was a reason for the venue? It does not appear an obvious one for a 'Northern Union' team??

Some weeks back I put a thread about a mysterious cap that turned out to be a Hull FC players cap from 1897 if memory serves. When I looked into his playing career, he played in a RL international at Cheltenham and that was pre 20th century I think.

So Cheltenham appears to have been used to host RL games over a period of years around that time.

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Sky Sports Jenna Brooks to Jake Connor regarding England selection : "Shaun Wane has said that he's spoken to you about why you were left out, he's also said he's told you what you needed to do more of, I'm interested, what do you need to do more of and did you do it tonight?"

Jake Connor : "I don't know, to be honest I haven't spoken to him."

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Along with Dally Messenger who has already been mentioned, L.B Todd one of the other NZ three-quarters was Lance Todd. I am surprised that only two Hunslet players are in the Northern Union team listed as they would have been on the way to winning a clean sweep of 'All Four Cups' during that season.

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58 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

When I looked into his playing career, he played in a RL international at Cheltenham and that was pre 20th century I think.

If you've got any more details about this then I'd love to hear them.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Some weeks back I put a thread about a mysterious cap that turned out to be a Hull FC players cap from 1897 if memory serves. When I looked into his playing career, he played in a RL international at Cheltenham and that was pre 20th century I think.

So Cheltenham appears to have been used to host RL games over a period of years around that time.

Was that not a rugby (RU) international pre-split? I had read in RL history books that the first post split international was NU (England) v Other Nationalities in 1904 at Central Park, Wigan. Some Northern Union players had played in international games prior to the 1895 split.

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14 hours ago, gingerjon said:

If you've got any more details about this then I'd love to hear them.

 

12 hours ago, wiganermike said:

Was that not a rugby (RU) international pre-split? I had read in RL history books that the first post split international was NU (England) v Other Nationalities in 1904 at Central Park, Wigan. Some Northern Union players had played in international games prior to the 1895 split.

I've dug out the old thread and in it I posted a link to an article that is perhaps a tad misleading. (Get your excuses in early I say!)

As stated, I was trying to identify a particular cap that turned out to be Harry Taylor's representative cap he earned while playing for Hull FC. The date on the cap is "1898-9".

http://www.ajbooth.karoo.net/hullfcrecords/harrytaylor.html?fbclid=IwAR383dFKXH9rit0lHnuNWvoRvIM4tVKjDWrTFl2kS981z2TfeNQR9aN9e6o

Harry Taylor states in the above that he got his first representative cap in his second season at Hull FC and that appears to be 1897-98 so that's where my confusion came in. These caps were for representing Yorkshire but he goes on to say he captained the Northern Union International team but doesn't state that this was some years later. The article itself states that this was in 1908.

Here's the full thread :

 

 

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Sky Sports Jenna Brooks to Jake Connor regarding England selection : "Shaun Wane has said that he's spoken to you about why you were left out, he's also said he's told you what you needed to do more of, I'm interested, what do you need to do more of and did you do it tonight?"

Jake Connor : "I don't know, to be honest I haven't spoken to him."

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There is a blue plaque on the wall of The Barley Mow  Bramley saying this is where the NZ " All. Golds " played their first game over here .

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 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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7 hours ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

There is a blue plaque on the wall of The Barley Mow  Bramley saying this is where the NZ " All. Golds " played their first game over here .

There is also one in Cheltenham near the site of the ground where the game was played. Now under houses...

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Images 2 & 3 in the OP appear to have gone missing. Can anyone else see them?

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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50 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Images 2 & 3 in the OP appear to have gone missing. Can anyone else see them?

I can, I'll quote the OP and see how that goes, sorry but I'm not much cop at IT.

Sky Sports Jenna Brooks to Jake Connor regarding England selection : "Shaun Wane has said that he's spoken to you about why you were left out, he's also said he's told you what you needed to do more of, I'm interested, what do you need to do more of and did you do it tonight?"

Jake Connor : "I don't know, to be honest I haven't spoken to him."

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On 21/07/2022 at 18:19, Old Frightful said:

Saw this programme on Facebook and thought it would be of interest :

May be an image of 2 people and text that says "Official Programme. COPYRIGHT: NORMAN BROTHERS, Ltd. Price Threepence NORTHERN UNION V. NEW ZEALAND A. ATHLETIC GROUND, CHELTENHAM, BASKERVILLE (New Zealand) Promoter of Tour and Sec. Photo R Scott Co., Manchester SATURDAY, FEB. 15th, 1908. Estd. 1891 Phone 32x1 Cheltenham FOR ARTIFICIAL TEETH, Fillings, Extractions, Etc., GO TO Mr. Sutton Gardner, LAU HOUSE, Cheltenham. Near Free Library, Hours: 9a.m. 118 p.m. daily, BRANCHES STROUD, HAILSWORTH, CIRENCESTER. GLOUCESTER,eto TAYLOR Hull) Northern Union Photo/ Back."

May be an image of 2 people and text that says "FOR TEAS, COLDLUNCHEOS, and LIGHT REFRESHMENTS. Gloucestershire Dairy Every attention. DAIRY TEA ROOMS. Promenade, Our Tea Rooms first CRICKET. FOOTBALL, G.W.R.station ATHLETIC CLOTHING: speciality Golesworthy OFFICIAL OUTFITTER THE CHELTENHAM RUGBY FOOTBALL CLUB. GOLESWORTHY, General Outfitter, 413, HIGH ST. (near Rd.) Cheltenham. w. M'CUTCHEON having R.WYNYARD Notice Quit! BOOTS, CHEMIST noc BRUNSKILL, Cheltenham Cycle Mart Rüofchmober Exchange, North Exchange, NORTHS umber Zealand) price any m Watches! Clocks! Five-Eights Manchester PLEASED TO SEE YOU THE Won Fleece Hotel HIGH STREET. HEAD QUARTERS OF NEW ZEALAND TEAM. LUNCHEONS AND TEAS MODERATE PRICES"

May be an image of 4 people

May be an image of text that says "Zealand Match yu visit Tram Centre. the HOSIERY, FAMOUS" TAILORS OUTFITTERS. High Street. Cheltenham. TOBACCO. Athletes who Smoke MEDICO MIXTURE, 4D. per INVENTED MEDICAL PURE Charles Dickins, Tobacconist, Cheltenham INVITED SAMPLE TODD. BACCO GILCHRIST (Odham) J. SPENCER ZEALAND. FULL H. BACK. TURTILL. THREE-QUARTERS SMITH. NEW MESSENGER. WRIGLEY. PEARCE. HALF-BACK. WYNYARD. SAMAANS TYLER. CROSS. H. WILSON WHITE WoR W. FORWARDS. HALF-BACKS. HOLDER. Ûs) J INH GEORGE H. TAYLOR. FULL BACK. NORTHERN JOHNSTON. Copyright Ltd., Ladies' & Gents' Tailors. GARMENTS CUT Maxwell For the Finest Fish, Poultry and 84, High St., Cheltenham. Game. PREMISES. 1808. PRACTICAL BREECHES MAKERS. Bennington Street. Opposite"

May be an image of 2 people and text that says "BRIEF EXPLANATION the Principal Points of Difference the Rules Rugby Union Northern Union respectively. of Last 10 Days John Lance & Co's are:- TYNE, Zealand) nternational Half back (Photo Manchester) Great Sale. Last Day of Sale, SATURDAY, February 22nd, 1908 WONDERFUL BARGAINS inall Departments. OTHER DETAILS. High Street, Cheltenham. DUNNING, New Zealand) International Forward. (Photo Manchester Takentom"

May be an image of 2 people and text that says "FOR Coal ASK Prince of Wales' hotel, A.E WOOD, Proprietor. Prop PORTLAND STREET €. Attwood Evans, Pittville Street, Cheltenham. W. WYNYARD (New Zealand) Three-quarter. .anchester) TELEPHONE 320. Cornelius & Boulter Auctioneers and Estate Agents, Photo PROMENADE, Cheltenham. Telephone 77. "Gloucestershire iraphic" helnham) CROSS Zealand) International forward. (Photo CoL& O.,Manch Best Wines Spirits. ToBacco CIGARS Good Skittle Alley. COME AND SEE A.E.WOOD, WOOD, The English Rugby Union Full-back (FRANCE, WALES, IRELAND)"

May be an image of text that says "419, WEA "IDEAL' WINES NORMAN and BROTHERS 420, SPIRITS, LUNCHEON VIJIANI, LID HIGH PRINTERS ALE PALE BENNINGTON STREET, STOUT, ALES, STOUT STREET, 2/6 BARTHOLOMEW'S CHELTENHAM CHELTENHAM MINERAL 2/6 PTS. PER PTS. PER DOZ. AREC ALES O.Z. WATERS 1/6 1/6 THE AND g-PTS. DOZ. PER PTS. PER BEST STOUT DOZ."

Sorry about the size of the images, I'm fairly hopeless at IT so couldn't do much about it. If anyone has the talent to reduce them I'm happy for mine to be deleted.

 

Sky Sports Jenna Brooks to Jake Connor regarding England selection : "Shaun Wane has said that he's spoken to you about why you were left out, he's also said he's told you what you needed to do more of, I'm interested, what do you need to do more of and did you do it tonight?"

Jake Connor : "I don't know, to be honest I haven't spoken to him."

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