McNamara blasts Huddersfield after IMG discussions

[RP London]

On 25/07/2022 at 13:21, GUBRATS said:

That's the point , there are no stats , it is impossible to quantify , the vast majority of subscriptions are for football or general ' sport ' , even in the heartlands of the game very few are purely for RL , outside I'd suggest even less apart from the odd ' expat ' , so saying ' most ' or ' all ' subscribers outside the heartlands would prefer to watch Cats and Toulouse over say Leigh and Fev isn't provable either way , football rules the roost completely 

Is this not part of the problem though... we talk about subscribers, and I am sure that is a thing, but secondary to that will be ad revenue. Therefore it is quite important who is going to watch Cats v Toulouse over say Leigh v Fev.. as a casual viewer is it not? How important is a different question of course. But its something that has to be taken into consideration and, of course, its all about the balance. I loved Fev as a kid (no idea why) but I wouldn't watch say Leigh v Fev over Cats v Toulouse.. but i would watch say Fev v Cats or Leigh v Cats... so is it a case of 1 is ok for the balance to do what we are talking about or does it need both etc... 

Which is the casual fan more likely to turn on and therefore what is more likely to have more eyes on and make the ad space more worthwhile/expensive?

genuinely don't know and we'll just be speculating but in reality its not all about subscriptions IMHO it will go deeper now.

Edited July 27, 2022 by RP London

[RP London]

15 hours ago, phiggins said:

Hopefully IMG can convert all of this into some sort of plan. My fear is that the RFL have just pinned their hopes on Catalans and Toulouse (and previously Toronto) to do well, and that benefits would just come.

Totally agree here... think that is exactly what the RFL do.. "oh thank god they've come along... lets hope they can make it work" rather than "what can we do to help you?"

I too hope that IMG look at this slightly differently and can marry helping the French grow (which is key to a lot IMHO) whilst not damaging the domestic scene. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

IMG will propose the following without doubt.

 

* Franchising 

* London team

* Toulouse franchise (Dragons nailed on)

* Less matches (Loop ones gone)

* Min of 5 internationals a year (2/3 outside of the heartlands)

* League expansion via franchising based on strict criteria

Paul

[Davo5]

40 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I don't have a team Harry. I don't live in the heartlands. I attend internationals and major events and spend a lot of money doing that.

Am I a supporter of the game or a fan?

You seem quite content in your views that some RL followers are better than others which is a shame.

Yeap,it seems to certain fans that you have to actually be born in the town of the team you support & if your not or support teams from various levels of the game you are somehow not a “proper” supporter,maybe that ridiculous & archaic thinking is one of the major problem facing the game in attracting new fans.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

Yeap,it seems to certain fans that you have to actually be born in the town of the team you support & if your not or support teams from various levels of the game you are somehow not a “proper” supporter,maybe that ridiculous & archaic thinking is one of the major problem facing the game in attracting new fans.

We don't need to overstate attitudes like this as a problem. It's a normal thing. People will have different views on stuff like this. 

Look how much stick some clubs get in football for their fan base not being from that city. A lot of 'banter' between City and Utd fans is around empty seats, or fans from London, and there is plenty of talk in football around away fans. RL fans are not really different, there are just fewer of us. 

Our problems are from our leaders, not fans. 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

We don't need to overstate attitudes like this as a problem. It's a normal thing. People will have different views on stuff like this. 

Look how much stick some clubs get in football for their fan base not being from that city. A lot of 'banter' between City and Utd fans is around empty seats, or fans from London, and there is plenty of talk in football around away fans. RL fans are not really different, there are just fewer of us. 

Our problems are from our leaders, not fans. 

It's not just this. I will spend at least £1500 on tickets for games in the UK this year despite not attending a single regular club fixture.

That fact that there are potentially lots more people like me out there -  interested in the bigger picture, high profile stuff - should be the focus.

Sadly, there isn't enough on the menu (or perhaps the will) outside WC years to tap into this market.

Why am I interested in RL doing well in France? Well I've just explained it haven't I?

The game is stuck in groundhog day and the leaders are incapable of breaking the spell.

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We don't need to overstate attitudes like this as a problem. It's a normal thing. People will have different views on stuff like this. 

Look how much stick some clubs get in football for their fan base not being from that city. A lot of 'banter' between City and Utd fans is around empty seats, or fans from London, and there is plenty of talk in football around away fans. RL fans are not really different, there are just fewer of us. 

Our problems are from our leaders, not fans. 

But it is a problem especially in a sport with the majority of teams based in small towns that struggle to attract fans in any great numbers from outside its geographic boundaries.

[Jack Russell]

A bit of a side note but you can read into my thought process with this.....    I am in Cyprus right now on my hols, wakey cas on TV tomorrow night. I have zero interest of dragging my family to a bar to watch this. The thought of watching two small towns from a couple of miles apart in yourkshire has zero appeal to my family nor me.

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

IMG will propose the following without doubt.

 

* Franchising 

* London team

* Toulouse franchise (Dragons nailed on)

* Less matches (Loop ones gone)

* Min of 5 internationals a year (2/3 outside of the heartlands)

* League expansion via franchising based on strict criteria

Paul

When you say 'without doubt', is that because you have some inside knowledge?

Or is it hyperbolic and this is your prediction (and therefore contains a significant amount of doubt)?

[Niels]

20 minutes ago, Jack Russell said:

A bit of a side note but you can read into my thought process with this.....    I am in Cyprus right now on my hols, wakey cas on TV tomorrow night. I have zero interest of dragging my family to a bar to watch this. The thought of watching two small towns from a couple of miles apart in yourkshire has zero appeal to my family nor me.

But a lot of other fans are. It's fifth versus a team fighting for survival. A local derby. Wakefield isn't a small town either. 

We can't expect Sky to just show only the teams we like. 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Niels

[RP London]

44 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It's not just this. I will spend at least £1500 on tickets for games in the UK this year despite not attending a single regular club fixture.

That fact that there are potentially lots more people like me out there -  interested in the bigger picture, high profile stuff - should be the focus.

Sadly, there isn't enough on the menu (or perhaps the will) outside WC years to tap into this market.

Why am I interested in RL doing well in France? Well I've just explained it haven't I?

The game is stuck in groundhog day and the leaders are incapable of breaking the spell.

I honestly think the leaders want the win so they can wallow in it.. I dont think they are prepared to be the person who started, or continued the ground work that will build in the future. They may even see that as a failure because, well look at this board when something doesnt work the first or second time its tried (internationals) or isnt producing what THEY think it should be in terms of fans/players/tv (expansion)... 

We have to look at the long term gain of things IMHO and be prepared for the short term pain, but I just dont believe our leadership group are prepared for that. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Look how much stick some clubs get in football for their fan base not being from that city.

Nice problem to have.

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

IMG will propose the following without doubt.

 

* Franchising 

* London team

* Toulouse franchise (Dragons nailed on)

* Less matches (Loop ones gone)

* Min of 5 internationals a year (2/3 outside of the heartlands)

* League expansion via franchising based on strict criteria

Paul

Hopefully they'll provide more than 6 bullet points though

[redjonn]

18 hours ago, phiggins said:

Last season was almost the opposite case. A broken team, broken club almost, that should never have even applied to be in Super League in the first place. And performances didn't do nearly enough to persuade people to attend when restrictions allowed.

However, it would be nice to be able to have a conversation about what we hope to achieve with the game in France, without it turning into a snipefest comparing individual clubs. What does the sport want to gain from having 2 clubs in SL? How do they plan to get it? Will there be more clubs from overseas in SL, and if so, will the league be made bigger to avoid reducing number of full time British clubs? Who's responsibility is it to sell rights for French broadcasting? Have the sport approached anyone to sell streaming rights, which can cover both UK and Europe either combined or as separate deals? Has Brexit affected the plans that might have been in place for French / UK RL? 

Would've though these would be more relevant questions on a thread about IMG meetings & French teams, than questions about attendances at two Leigh games. 

Yep I think your right.  We surely can not strategically just be looking for x2 French teams in SL/Championship, aka Catalan and Toulouse.

How are we seeking to help the further growth of the sport in France. If it grows with more stronger clubs how does that impact the leagues here or is it a plan to ultimately have a equivalent to SL of its own in the long term. Undoubtedly if existing arrangements and we have more stronger French clubs that impacts the makeup of leagues and clubs in UK.   

Not saying one is good or bad but surely their must be a strategic goal in which RFL and French equivalent share and support.

 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

It's not just this. I will spend at least £1500 on tickets for games in the UK this year despite not attending a single regular club fixture.

That fact that there are potentially lots more people like me out there -  interested in the bigger picture, high profile stuff - should be the focus.

Sadly, there isn't enough on the menu (or perhaps the will) outside WC years to tap into this market.

Why am I interested in RL doing well in France? Well I've just explained it haven't I?

The game is stuck in groundhog day and the leaders are incapable of breaking the spell.

It should be A focus yes, but this was my point. It is the leaders who need to be catering for the different segments. I don't think it's a big issue what Harry thinks on Totalrl.com.

[Jack Russell]

55 minutes ago, Niels said:

But a lot of other fans are. It's fifth versus a team fighting for survival. A local derby. Wakefield isn't a small town either. 

We can't expect Sky to just show only the teams we like. 

 

On reflection I am being a bit harsh there. But the point I'm making is we must think bigger than what we've got at the moment. That's obvious isn't it.

[gingerjon]

51 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Hopefully they'll provide more than 6 bullet points though

Tea and biscuits too?

[RP London]

51 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It should be A focus yes, but this was my point. It is the leaders who need to be catering for the different segments. I don't think it's a big issue what Harry thinks on Totalrl.com.

I notice you didnt @Harry Stottlein there... i think he'll be very hurt by that remark 

[glossop saint]

55 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It should be A focus yes, but this was my point. It is the leaders who need to be catering for the different segments. I don't think it's a big issue what Harry thinks on Totalrl.com.

I agree except for the fact that if the leaders are coming from a similar position as Harry with similar views, or pandering to such views then the sport won't grow outside the heartlands, or probably even within them. And the higher percentage of people with these views the bigger chance it is that the leaders share them.

[phiggins]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Tea and biscuits too?

Never say no to tea and biscuits

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree except for the fact that if the leaders are coming from a similar position as Harry with similar views, or pandering to such views then the sport won't grow outside the heartlands, or probably even within them. And the higher percentage of people with these views the bigger chance it is that the leaders share them.

Yes - but again, this is my point. Other sports have these same views in their fanbase. But it doesn't mean their leaders share that view or pander to it.

If we make bad decisions, its because of poor leadership. 

[Big Picture]

43 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I agree except for the fact that if the leaders are coming from a similar position as Harry with similar views, or pandering to such views then the sport won't grow outside the heartlands, or probably even within them. And the higher percentage of people with these views the bigger chance it is that the leaders share them.

We already know that a good few of them do share those views, all their talk about the importance of "away fans" demonstrates that clearly.

[Niels]

54 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

We already know that a good few of them do share those views, all their talk about the importance of "away fans" demonstrates that clearly.

Aren't these different issues though?

I am interested in foreign teams but I also think away fans are very valuable also. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Davo5 said:

But it is a problem especially in a sport with the majority of teams based in small towns that struggle to attract fans in any great numbers from outside its geographic boundaries.

Not going to disagree Dav, and especially when those borders are other RL towns, tell me where is the dividing line that separates Haven from Workington loyalties Distington perhaps?

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Jack Russell said:

A bit of a side note but you can read into my thought process with this.....    I am in Cyprus right now on my hols, wakey cas on TV tomorrow night. I have zero interest of dragging my family to a bar to watch this. The thought of watching two small towns from a couple of miles apart in yourkshire has zero appeal to my family nor me.

You can't really term the towns of Wigan and St Helens as Metropolises can you? Especially people from the other side of the country with no interest in RL.