IMG - Thought's, suggestions and comments to move the game forward

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, del capo said:

Sorry Damien but I cant do linky stuff. 20th century IT only.

Circulated to all Council members at least and shared elsewhere.. Somebody on here will have it  and the skills to share.

Gubrats ?

Martyn will I am sure have it but may be saving it for his Trade press.

That reference to RFL and Worcester RU could well relate to Covid loans as well as Noreen Dorris'  department....Martyn has raised this on another thread

No problem, it just sounded interesting and would have loved to know more.

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, del capo said:

That reference to RFL and Worcester RU could well relate to Covid loans 

Now that would make sense as all sports ended up having them in some way, even though we were first.

[GUBRATS]

45 minutes ago, del capo said:

Sorry Damien but I cant do linky stuff. 20th century IT only.

Circulated to all Council members at least and shared elsewhere.. Somebody on here will have it  and the skills to share.

Gubrats ?

Martyn will I am sure have it but may be saving it for his Trade press.

That reference to RFL and Worcester RU could well relate to Covid loans as well as Noreen Dorris'  department....Martyn has raised this on another thread

Me ?

[wiggler]

I thought the img questionnaire was pathetic.  Would you like to see more international RL?  So if we all say will the Aussies sign up for an annual tour?  How many teams do we want in super League?  What is the point of asking me?  I have no idea on the financial stability of clubs or the media money so I will vote for 23 with 2 teams from France, 1 from each of Ireland, Canada, Ukraine (obviously) and Mars.  IMG must be laughing all the way to the bank.  Drivel dressed up as customer involvement.  How about asking people who DON'T watch RL as these are the people we need?  Asking the converted is just pointless window dressing.  Questions seemed to reflect the agenda of the clients rather than the desires of the customers.  If that is the case then it is flawed from the getgo.  If the answers reflect the clients wishes, great.  If not, ignore them!   Is my cynicism misplaced?  Time will tell.

Perhaps in the future it won't just be Saints, Wigan or Leeds who win the GF.  After all, they have only won the last 15 and every super League gf EVER has featured at least one of those 3 clubs. If my maths is correct, then 8 sides have won the NRL gf in the last 15 years. Some contrast?

Who do you like for this year's GF?  Saints and Wigan?  YAWN.  IMG will shake it up.  Next year my money is on Leigh v Wakefield.

[welshmagpie]

40 minutes ago, wiggler said:

I thought the img questionnaire was pathetic.  Would you like to see more international RL?  So if we all say will the Aussies sign up for an annual tour?  How many teams do we want in super League?  What is the point of asking me?  I have no idea on the financial stability of clubs or the media money so I will vote for 23 with 2 teams from France, 1 from each of Ireland, Canada, Ukraine (obviously) and Mars.  IMG must be laughing all the way to the bank.  Drivel dressed up as customer involvement.  How about asking people who DON'T watch RL as these are the people we need?  Asking the converted is just pointless window dressing.  Questions seemed to reflect the agenda of the clients rather than the desires of the customers.  If that is the case then it is flawed from the getgo.  If the answers reflect the clients wishes, great.  If not, ignore them!   Is my cynicism misplaced?  Time will tell.

Perhaps in the future it won't just be Saints, Wigan or Leeds who win the GF.  After all, they have only won the last 15 and every super League gf EVER has featured at least one of those 3 clubs. If my maths is correct, then 8 sides have won the NRL gf in the last 15 years. Some contrast?

Who do you like for this year's GF?  Saints and Wigan?  YAWN.  IMG will shake it up.  Next year my money is on Leigh v Wakefield.

.

Edited September 2, 2022 by welshmagpie

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, wiggler said:

I thought the img questionnaire was pathetic.  Would you like to see more international RL?  So if we all say will the Aussies sign up for an annual tour?  How many teams do we want in super League?  What is the point of asking me?  I have no idea on the financial stability of clubs or the media money so I will vote for 23 with 2 teams from France, 1 from each of Ireland, Canada, Ukraine (obviously) and Mars.  IMG must be laughing all the way to the bank.  Drivel dressed up as customer involvement.  How about asking people who DON'T watch RL as these are the people we need?  Asking the converted is just pointless window dressing.  Questions seemed to reflect the agenda of the clients rather than the desires of the customers.  If that is the case then it is flawed from the getgo.  If the answers reflect the clients wishes, great.  If not, ignore them!   Is my cynicism misplaced?  Time will tell.

Perhaps in the future it won't just be Saints, Wigan or Leeds who win the GF.  After all, they have only won the last 15 and every super League gf EVER has featured at least one of those 3 clubs. If my maths is correct, then 8 sides have won the NRL gf in the last 15 years. Some contrast?

Who do you like for this year's GF?  Saints and Wigan?  YAWN.  IMG will shake it up.  Next year my money is on Leigh v Wakefield.

Based on what Forum members who've lived outside the British game's heartlands have said about their interactions with persons who fit the part of your post which I bolded, I suspect that they would fall into two categories.

The first would respond with something like "Rugby League, what's that?" and the second would say something indicating that they perceive RL as a small, downmarket regional sport with limited appeal and certainly not appealing to them.  If those are the sort of answers they'd get from surveying that group, what possible changes could they make within the limitations of the game's current setup in Britain which could conceivably break through that barrier?

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Based on what Forum members who've lived outside the British game's heartlands have said about their interactions with persons who fit the part of your post which I bolded, I suspect that they would fall into two categories.

The first would respond with something like "Rugby League, what's that?" and the second would say something indicating that they perceive RL as a small, downmarket regional sport with limited appeal and certainly not appealing to them.  If those are the sort of answers they'd get from surveying that group, what possible changes could they make within the limitations of the game's current setup in Britain which could conceivably break through that barrier?

I do realise this question is cross coded , but I hope Martyn leaves it in 

What is your opinion of all the big city clubs in the RU Premiership ? 

Like Sale , Exeter , Northampton , bath , Worcester , Gloucester , and strange places like Saracen and Harlequin , there is a place called London , but they only want Irish people 

Just asking like ? 

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Based on what Forum members who've lived outside the British game's heartlands have said about their interactions with persons who fit the part of your post which I bolded, I suspect that they would fall into two categories.

The first would respond with something like "Rugby League, what's that?" and the second would say something indicating that they perceive RL as a small, downmarket regional sport with limited appeal and certainly not appealing to them.  If those are the sort of answers they'd get from surveying that group, what possible changes could they make within the limitations of the game's current setup in Britain which could conceivably break through that barrier?

I suspect there would be a decent % in category 1, and next to none in category 2, because people don't hate UK RL as standard like you do. 

In my experience,  those 'outsiders'  who know about RL tend to respect it very much,  and aren't half as chippy as those who claim to like RL are. 

[Harry Stottle]

On 30/08/2022 at 11:03, Griff said:

One of them (at least) has been chucking money away.

Not that that concerns me.  Provided that the stability of the club is not affected.

Only the one of them Leigh or Fev who fails to make SL this term could be deemed to have thrown money away, but if you had listened to Mr Beaumont at the end of last season he said he had 2 year plan to make SL, if it fails in '22 he is ready to go around again in '23 and already having signed a number of player's for next year his intension already seems justified, and Fev have already stated that there are a number of signings waiting to announced for next season irrespective of which division they will be playing in, so on that score I think you can alleviate your fears of either club's stability being affected.

[Harry Stottle]

On 29/08/2022 at 13:23, watcherofRL said:

Totally agree about the self interest - only way would be IMG to be strong enough to strip the power from SL clubs and create a brand new set of regional clubs. It would mean clubs would need to be completely rebranded and in some instance moved from their small town to become part of a bigger region. 
planning needs to happen as if it is a brand new sport and the existing g clubs would then need to ‘fit’ the new model rather than continually trying to offer short term fixes that only really serve to keep the status quo as it is

Good luck with that one,

So I take it because of their location to one another Wigan, Saints and Warrington would be part of your brand new set of regional clubs, as would Hull FC and KR and maybe Leeds, Cas and Wakefield, all taken out of their towns to play out of some other location, HOW MANY OF THE EXISTING FANS DO YOU EXPECT TO LOSE?

[Pulga]

29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Good luck with that one,

So I take it because of their location to one another Wigan, Saints and Warrington would be part of your brand new set of regional clubs, as would Hull FC and KR and maybe Leeds, Cas and Wakefield, all taken out of their towns to play out of some other location, HOW MANY OF THE EXISTING FANS DO YOU EXPECT TO LOSE?

At this stage it doesn't really matter. Stick with the current state and the game will slowly bleed out. 

It's 2022, Super League needs to reflect that. 

[Live after death]

12 hours ago, wiggler said:

I thought the img questionnaire was pathetic.  Would you like to see more international RL?  So if we all say will the Aussies sign up for an annual tour?  How many teams do we want in super League?  What is the point of asking me?  I have no idea on the financial stability of clubs or the media money so I will vote for 23 with 2 teams from France, 1 from each of Ireland, Canada, Ukraine (obviously) and Mars.  IMG must be laughing all the way to the bank.  Drivel dressed up as customer involvement.  How about asking people who DON'T watch RL as these are the people we need?  Asking the converted is just pointless window dressing.  Questions seemed to reflect the agenda of the clients rather than the desires of the customers.  If that is the case then it is flawed from the getgo.  If the answers reflect the clients wishes, great.  If not, ignore them!   Is my cynicism misplaced?  Time will tell.

Perhaps in the future it won't just be Saints, Wigan or Leeds who win the GF.  After all, they have only won the last 15 and every super League gf EVER has featured at least one of those 3 clubs. If my maths is correct, then 8 sides have won the NRL gf in the last 15 years. Some contrast?

Who do you like for this year's GF?  Saints and Wigan?  YAWN.  IMG will shake it up.  Next year my money is on Leigh v Wakefield.

Actually i’d day its right to ask existing fans, the games been haemorrhageing   Fans the last few years, i saw an old friend last night  a Cas fan, says he’s hardly been for 5 years, and i know  plenty others including myself with are the same, and its seems to be the same issues, bad leader ship from RFL, format changes, loop fixtures, the middle 8 concept, poor refereeing stds, lack of stability. 
so yes the question of formats needs to be asked and why are former hardcore fans walking away. 

[Dave T]

The positive things about the IMG survey is that it did ask about the things that are the talking points,  so it does appear that they are hearing what is being said. 

I suspect there are people pushing the 2 x 10 agenda,  and they are trying to knock it on the head with data from a survey that shows that fans don't like the idea and loop fixtures overall,  which would kill 2 x 10.

[redjonn]

4 minutes ago, Live after death said:

Actually i’d day its right to ask existing fans, the games been haemorrhageing   Fans the last few years, i saw an old friend last night  a Cas fan, says he’s hardly been for 5 years, and i know  plenty others including myself with are the same, and its seems to be the same issues, bad leader ship from RFL, format changes, loop fixtures, the middle 8 concept, poor refereeing stds, lack of stability. 
so yes the question of formats needs to be asked and why are former hardcore fans walking away. 

Surely if the game on the pitch is exciting enough and the experience at the ground is good fans wouldn't worry about the stuff you mention.

I mean I don't and of course maybe others do think before I put me shoes and coat on to go a game... I don't like the RFL leadership, etc etc etc...

Yes of course we all have opinions and not everyone's opinion will be the same and hence no one view.

Surely its the game on the pitch and the stadium experience that is a starting point.

 

[gingerjon]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I do realise this question is cross coded , but I hope Martyn leaves it in 

What is your opinion of all the big city clubs in the RU Premiership ? 

Like Sale , Exeter , Northampton , bath , Worcester , Gloucester , and strange places like Saracen and Harlequin , there is a place called London , but they only want Irish people 

Just asking like ? 

You can even do it for the Premier League (let alone the rest of football).

Where's Everton? Aston? Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham Brentford and West Ham?

[Live after death]

16 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Surely if the game on the pitch is exciting enough and the experience at the ground is good fans wouldn't worry about the stuff you mention.

I mean I don't and of course maybe others do think before I put me shoes and coat on to go a game... I don't like the RFL leadership, etc etc etc...

Yes of course we all have opinions and not everyone's opinion will be the same and hence no one view.

Surely its the game on the pitch and the stadium experience that is a starting point.

 

But the product on the field has declined over the last 10 years or so and most will agree, and all my points have contributed to that.  I have found fans want straight hone away whether thats 12-or 14 teams and want to know who they are playing and when. I scrapped my season tickets after the middle 8’s i have hobbies and i always fitted these around games, not knowing what half the fixtures were going to be until mid June just ended up missing too many games as they then clashed with other commitments, and now with loop fixtures you just think nah i’l pick and choose games. Thats my experience and many have similar stories. Its just stopped being the “not to be missed” event for me anymore. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Pulga said:

At this stage it doesn't really matter. Stick with the current state and the game will slowly bleed out. 

It's 2022, Super League needs to reflect that. 

I consider that by taking the approach @watcherofRLsuggests and seemingly you endorse Pulga the game would not just simply bleed out it would heamorrhage and lose it's lifeblood very quickly, British fans especially those in the heartlands no matter how big the club are very protective of their identity and independence hence why there are so many teams in such a small area, 2022 or not it will not change.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Dave T]

I do understand the dislike of loop fixtures, but I do also think it's a good illustration of how some RL fans get themselves so worked up about relatively minor things. The loop fixtures make up only 3 of your 14 home games. IMHO loop fixtures get a disproportionate amount of focus from some fans,  and I think this is a little like what happened with the disciplinary this year.  Things get some traction from a few noisy people,  it grows arms and legs and it suddenly becomes a big issue. And then we make decisions that are scratching around the edges and not the actual real decisions that will make a difference. 

I pretty much guarantee that if we scrap loop fixtures and replace them with teams 13 and 14,  it won't make a material difference, and if we scrap Magic,  the game will be worse off. 

We also need to just allow some fans to move on.  It's a natural cycle,  a part of life,  not everyone will be fans from the age of 6 until the day that they die.  Life gets in the way,  people dip in and out,  it happens in all sports,  and forms of entertainment. We won't please everyone,  if somebody is prepared to stay at home because of vague things like 'lack of stability'  then we move on and keep working hard to build our audience. But that can't happen at a micro-level. 

[David Shepherd]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I consider that by taking the approach @watcherofRLsuggests and seemingly you endorse Pulga the game would not just simply bleed out it would heamorage and lose it's lifeblood very quickly, British fans especially those in the heartlands no matter how big the club are very protective of their identity and independence hence why there are so many teams in such a small area, 2022 or not it will not change.

Exactly Harry. The sort of approach mentioned might work in other markets where there isn't the same history and there are large numbers of 1st and 2nd generation immigrants that don't have the same attachment to their area.

Anyone that thinks a made up regional competition would be anything other than a complete disaster just doesn't understand The UK sports market. Even Cricket with it's comparative wealth of resources and history of being regional is seeing that made up teams just don't cut it, viewer and spectator number are falling off a cliff in their attempt.

[idrewthehaggis]

15 hours ago, del capo said:

IMG conclusions and recommendations   to be presented to clubs on 28th September at a special Council meeting according to RFL Chair.

Thats sharp. I thought it would not be until the end of the year.

Should we imagine that the survey gives us some clues such as petitioning for an intentional calendar, a 7s tournament and a SL of 12-14 for 2024?

 

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I suspect there are people pushing the 2 x 10 agenda,  and they are trying to knock it on the head with data from a survey that shows that fans don't like the idea and loop fixtures overall,  which would kill 2 x 10.

Interesting that you suspect those who presently run the sport i.e. SL are pushing the 2 x 10's?  Who else could you be suggesting it is if you think that a portion of IMG's survey of the fans is to source their opinion of the 2 x 10's and loop fixtures to kill it. 

And if SL really wanted to bring it in would you expect them to follow IMG's advice?

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Interesting that you suspect those who presently run the sport i.e. SL are pushing the 2 x 10's?  Who else could you be suggesting it is if you think that a portion of IMG's survey of the fans is to source their opinion of the 2 x 10's and loop fixtures to kill it. 

And if SL really wanted to bring it in would you expect them to follow IMG's advice?

I have no idea who is pushing it. But it is being pushed.  I don't know whether it is the RFL,  or SL clubs,  or Championship clubs who are pushing themselves to be part of the funded group. 

I don't see SL clubs as the main driver of this,  but that's a personal opinion.  I expect they would just push for ring fenced licensing if they were looking for themselves. 

As we have seen though,  there is no 'SL club view'  -  there is a range of views and I expect IMG's recommendation will be taken up. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Dave T

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Live after death said:

Actually i’d day its right to ask existing fans, the games been haemorrhageing   Fans the last few years, i saw an old friend last night  a Cas fan, says he’s hardly been for 5 years, and i know  plenty others including myself with are the same, and its seems to be the same issues, bad leader ship from RFL, format changes, loop fixtures, the middle 8 concept, poor refereeing stds, lack of stability. 
so yes the question of formats needs to be asked and why are former hardcore fans walking away. 

Or is it because he's p1553d CAS didn't win the GF 5 years ago , but doesn't want to say that to your face 

I stopped going for a few years because IMO there was nothing ' serious ' at stake because of licencing , the games were still as entertaining , the players still tried as much as they could , the refs still did a great job with the odd human mistake , but I just felt the excitement ( in my mind no doubt ) was missing , we won , OK , we lost , OK , but just not the same ' must win , daren't lose ' feeling 

All that returned in abundance with the middle 8s for me 

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

You can even do it for the Premier League (let alone the rest of football).

Where's Everton? Aston? Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham Brentford and West Ham?

Oh come on, get real.  Doesn't everyone in Britain know that Everton's in Liverpool, Aston Villa's in Birmingham and the others you mentioned are in London?

Re @GUBRATS' question about RU, though their Premiership includes some small places it also has a decent coverage of cities, it covers most of the regions of England, and its establishment connections help it too.  That seal of approval gives RU a big advantage which RL lacks.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Big Picture

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

You can even do it for the Premier League (let alone the rest of football).

Where's Everton? Aston? Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham Brentford and West Ham?

Less so , but yes , but Sale , Bath , Northampton , I've been to them all didn't see many skyscrapers 

Where do ' Wasps ' play these days ?