England Matches in 2023

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Ralph Rimmer doing the Delia

There's an image.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

Other than current RL fans though, nobody knows that.  And if they did know that, would that just give them a reason to think that there must be something fundamentally wrong with a sport where England and the other northern hemisphere countries don't dominate those little island countries like they would in every other sport on the planet?

That's a strange comment. All sports are different, while those countries may not be competitive in other sports they are in RL and so should be seen as top RL playing nations and given the respect that comes with that. Its only like countries such as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or West Indies in cricket, they are considered top nations in that sport but not particularly in any other sport but people don't rubbish cricket cos Sri Lanka are bad at football do they? 

Edited July 26, 2022 by The Hallucinating Goose

[Big Picture]

30 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

They would if it follows a successful World Cup campaign from those nations.

I doubt anyone but you would think a sport has fundamental problems because a smaller nation is successful,we’re they saying that when Japan beat South Africa in the Union WC or when Iceland had a great run in the euros,we’re they saying that when Greece & Denmark actually won the euros or when Ireland beat England just before England won the cricket WC ?

Japan isn't a smaller nation than South Africa though, it's a bigger nation in World terms so Japan getting the better of the Springboks isn't really that big an upset to anyone who doesn't follow RU closely.  Iceland having a great run in the Euros is a once in a lifetime sort of thing, not likely to happen again any time soon.  Greece and Denmark winning them is also a rarity, usually neither country even gets to the semi-finals.

In most sports for a smaller country to do that well is a rarity, not the norm, so that's what the public most likely considers normal.  A sport where it's the norm is likely to been as small time on that account.

10 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

No, that´s just defeatist and looking for excuses not to play them . Casuals dont care and barely think about the sport,  that´s the point. Tonga would sell out 3 30k stadiums in England and be on the BBC just like the other games are. Could push for a bigger crowd in London. Also would be another example of how we don´t need Australia and should just cycle the other teams. 

Even the Kiwis only beat that 90,000 aggregate once through all the years they've been touring, so I think you're dreaming in Technicolor there.

[Big Picture]

3 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

That's a strange comment. All sports are different, while those countries may not be competitive in other sports they are in RL and so should be seen as top RL playing nations and given the respect that comes with that. Its only like countries such as Sri Lanka, Bangladesh or West Indies in cricket, they are considered top nations in that sport but not particularly in any other sport but people don't rubbish the Sri Lankan cricket team cos Sri Lanka are bad at football do they? 

Cricket is somewhat unique because it's only big in the Commonwealth.  Also, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh aren't tiny little countries, by population they're both comparable to countries which do well in sports which are bigger internationally than cricket so them doing well in cricket won't necessarily seem odd to anyone.  West Indies more or less conforms to what I've said, even in cricket the countries concerned are too small to compete on their so own so they field a combined team instead.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Japan isn't a smaller nation than South Africa though, it's a bigger nation in World terms so Japan getting the better of the Springboks isn't really that big an upset to anyone who doesn't follow RU closely.  Iceland having a great run in the Euros is a once in a lifetime sort of thing, not likely to happen again any time soon.  Greece and Denmark winning them is also a rarity, usually neither country even gets to the semi-finals.

In most sports for a smaller country to do that well is a rarity, not the norm, so that's what the public most likely considers normal.  A sport where it's the norm is likely to been as small time on that account.

So a few ignorant people who don't know anything about the history or make up of a certain sport and have no interest in learning about it are going to think said sport is small-time based on their limited knowledge of a completely different and unrelated sport?

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Japan isn't a smaller nation than South Africa though, it's a bigger nation in World terms so Japan getting the better of the Springboks isn't really that big an upset to anyone who doesn't follow RU closely.  Iceland having a great run in the Euros is a once in a lifetime sort of thing, not likely to happen again any time soon.  Greece and Denmark winning them is also a rarity, usually neither country even gets to the semi-finals.

In most sports for a smaller country to do that well is a rarity, not the norm, so that's what the public most likely considers normal.  A sport where it's the norm is likely to been as small time on that account.

Even the Kiwis only beat that 90,000 aggregate once through all the years they've been touring, so I think you're dreaming in Technicolor there.

You don’t half talk a load of rollocks,smaller nations/team’s upsetting much bigger ones is part of the fabric of sport,it happens regularly in most sports,the fact we now have a handful of these nations is a massive bonus for RL  and an attraction for sporting fans.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Cricket is somewhat unique because it's only big in the Commonwealth.  Also, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh aren't tiny little countries, by population they're both comparable to countries which do well in sports which are bigger internationally than cricket so them doing well in cricket won't necessarily seem odd to anyone.  West Indies more or less conforms to what I've said, even in cricket the countries concerned are too small to compete on their so own so they field a combined team instead.

What are you talking about?? Seriously just stop, go outside and have a fag. Cricket isn't unique is it because RL is only popular is a couple of areas of the world as well.

Population has nothing at all to do with a country's ability to compete in a certain sport. I'm going to say a country name now, wait for it, just wait... China. I'm gonna say another one... India. You know the two most populated countries in the world? India are good at cricket, they are rubbish at most other sports. China are good at a couple of Olympic sports and shocking at everything else. Would people be surprised if either of those won a football or rugby World Cup? It would be the biggest thing ever to happen in world sport because they are not known as good in those sports despite their enormous size on the world stage. Would people be surprised if Wales won the rugby World Cup? No because Wales are known as a good rugby nation despite their miniscule size on the world stage.

Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG are considered good at RL and people who knew about the sport would not be surprised if they got to the world cup final or even won it. The only people who may be a little surprised are people who don't know about the sport and once they'd quickly educated themselves they'd then understand. 

[Big Picture]

4 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

You don’t half talk a load of rollocks,smaller nations/team’s upsetting much bigger ones is part of the fabric of sport,it happens regularly in most sports,the fact we now have a handful of these nations is a massive bonus for RL  and an attraction for sporting fans.

Upsets are occasional, they only happen from time to time.  That's what makes them upsets.  And in most sports a smaller nation beating a much bigger is just that, an upset, i.e. something which only happens occasionally.  That's very different from a team from a tiny island country beating a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team as happens routinely in RL.  It's quite likely to reinforce negative views of the game.

13 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

So a few ignorant people who don't know anything about the history or make up of a certain sport and have no interest in learning about it are going to think said sport is small-time based on their limited knowledge of a completely different and unrelated sport?

Not a few persons, probably most. 

We know from what a good few posters have said on other threads about their experiences trying to talk the game up with outsiders that most of the British public doesn't even know that a second version of rugby exists and most of the remainder who do look down on RL because they perceive it as a small time, downmarket regional game with limited appeal.  In that context, having teams from tiny countries able to beat a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team is a definite liability.

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Upsets are occasional, they only happen from time to time.  That's what makes them upsets.  And in most sports a smaller nation beating a much bigger is just that, an upset, i.e. something which only happens occasionally.  That's very different from a team from a tiny island country beating a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team as happens routinely in RL.  It's quite likely to reinforce negative views of the game.

Not a few persons, probably most. 

We know from what a good few posters have said on other threads about their experiences trying to talk the game up with outsiders that most of the British public doesn't even know that a second version of rugby exists and most of the remainder who do look down on RL because they perceive it as a small time, downmarket regional game with limited appeal.  In that context, having teams from tiny countries able to beat a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team is a definite liability.

Yeah somehow I doubt your talking for most people seeing how you live on another planet.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Upsets are occasional, they only happen from time to time.  That's what makes them upsets.  And in most sports a smaller nation beating a much bigger is just that, an upset, i.e. something which only happens occasionally.  That's very different from a team from a tiny island country beating a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team as happens routinely in RL.  It's quite likely to reinforce negative views of the game.

Not a few persons, probably most. 

We know from what a good few posters have said on other threads about their experiences trying to talk the game up with outsiders that most of the British public doesn't even know that a second version of rugby exists and most of the remainder who do look down on RL because they perceive it as a small time, downmarket regional game with limited appeal.  In that context, having teams from tiny countries able to beat a team from a much bigger country consistently and even thrashing the bigger country's team is a definite liability.

Okay, I've got two questions to ask you. 

Why have the USA not won the RL World Cup despite having a massive population and landmass?

Why have NZ won the Union World Cup 3 times despite being a small country by population and landmass? 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Fan: "Ralph, I will not attend Elland Road"

RFL: "But we have to make substantial savings"

Fan: "I will not attend Elland Road"

RFL: "But if we go there, we can keep RFL productions going with a skeleton staff of two..."

Fan: "There's no point in finishing your sentence Ralph, i am not attending Elland Road"

RFL: "But if we..."

Fan: "i'll just speak over you. Go on, try and finish the sentence and see what i do. Go on!"

RFL: "..."

Fan: "i am not attending Elland Road, I am not attending Elland Road, I am not attending Elland Road!"

 

 

I should be working really.

Ha ha.....I think Lynn would do better in charge than Ralph....in fact I'd love to see Ralph in a Rover 100

[Big Picture]

20 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Okay, I've got two questions to ask you. 

Why have the USA not won the RL World Cup despite having a massive population and landmass?

Why have NZ won the Union World Cup 3 times despite being a small country by population and landmass? 

1. RL has almost no presence in the US.  If it became big there and attracted a lot of top gridiron converts, the US would soon become big in RL.

2. RU is huge in NZ, that allows them to punch above their weight in that sport.

Fiji, Tonga and Samoa punch above their weight in RU too, but even in that sport it's rare for them to beat the bigger nations so those are upsets and they rarely even get past the group stage of the RWC.  Small countries like them routinely beating (and even thrashing) nations which would never lose to them in other sports is a problem, one which I think our French members like @audoisunderstand.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Big Picture

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Do we just not ask Tonga/PNG/Fiji/Samoa (even Lebanon) if they are interested in touring here or are they just not bothered?

It must make some financial sense for them surely?

Assuming the NRL go for an international window (we'll see) then we could ask Greece and Lebanon to come up. It would allow Serbia to tap into players from Aus as well. I think the Pacific nations will be more than happy to stay down south and compete locally.

[StandOffHalf]

I think England should be playing France in a two-game series next year.

Plenty of potential there with players like Seguier, Sangaré, etc. coming through. If Toulouse survive this season, they'll be stronger next year.

2023 and 2024 should be used by England and France to strengthen a yearly tradition that can only aid both countries in the long run.

Playing NZ seems a bit repetitive and unimaginative, but I'm sure I'll enjoy the series for what it is.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, MattSantos said:

But the NZ players are from the NRL. This doesnt make sense. 

 

Great point. 

If we can entice NZ we can entice the rest 

This worry about the NRL is overplayed. They aren't getting there way in state of origin decisions. 

We can / should entice / plan for Pacific nations to come over for profitable tours 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

4 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

1. RL has almost no presence in the US.

2. RU is huge in NZ, that allows them to punch above their weight in that sport.

Fiji, Tonga and Samoa punch above their weight in RU too, but even in that sport it's rare for them to beat the bigger nations so those are upsets and they rarely even get past the group stage of the RWC.  Small countries like them routinely beating (and even thrashing) nations which would never lose to them in other sports is a problem, one which think our French members like @audoisunderstand.

You're getting there, your answers to the questions were correct. 

The point is, ability at individual sports does not relate in any way whatsoever to the size of a country. 

Yes, the Pacific Nations doing well in union could be seen as an upset because those countries are known to be not as good at that sport as some other nations. 

The Pacific Nations beating a top nation in RL is not an upset because those countries are good at RL. Just because people that have no interest in the sport don't know this, I promise you, does not diminish the sport in any way. 

There's plenty of sports I don't know much about and don't know who the top nations are. If I read that a certain country I don't associate with other sports has won a tournament in, say, beach volleyball, my first reaction is, "well done, they must be good at that sport", not "that's a shock because they are carp at football". If something thinks the second thing first they are called an ignorant person by the more intelligent people in society and tend to just be ignored. That's the best thing you can do if some ignorant person wants to try to ridicule RL because Tonga beat one of the big 3. Just ignore them. 

And now I'm done with this debate cos the women's football is on and I won't be really shocked if Sweden beat England because I know they are good at women's football despite being rubbish at Kabaddi. 

[Barley Mow]

3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

When the only southern hemisphere tours which don't lose money go to Australia, how is that a viable plan?

I'd be happy for the SH tours element to be all primarily based around Australia as an anchor (probably with matches against NZ and PNG in their countries).

I'd anticipate it being us added into (or around) whatever competition/series the SH nations were running that year.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The NZRL has *just* enough pull aware from the NRL centre of gravity to be able to get its players - or enough of them - out.

That does not apply to any of the Pacific Island set-ups which are wholly dependent on Australia

Serious question 

Like many things you present them as absolute truth 

What basis have you stated that NZ have "just enough pull" yet Tonga or Fiji etc don't?

Have your read that? Are there meetings/agendas you've seen that others haven't? 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Serious question 

Like many things you present them as absolute truth 

What basis have you stated that NZ have "just enough pull" yet Tonga or Fiji etc don't?

Have your read that? Are there meetings/agendas you've seen that others haven't? 

Basically, my understanding is that the NZRL is just independent enough that it can do something without needing the NRL's permission to do so. It also likes to be able to assert this from time to time.

The Pacific Island nations don't really exist as internationals unless Australia both financially underwrites them and provides them with the facilities and players.

[Balmainboy]

could be a few years away before its competitive but surely a 3 match france v england series each year is the aim...big rivalry already exists - travel costs very small, helps grow the game and as people have mentioned - france are improving quite quickly. One game in north England, one game in southern france and the third alternating between London and Paris...

[GeordieSaint]

A big requirement for the NZ Series is to identify the venues for the games and then the tickets/commercial packages on sale during this year’s WC. 

So if the locations are let’s say London (Tottenham), Sheffield (Bramhall Lane) and Newcastle (St James’ Park), they need to be on sale when the competition kicks off to take advantage of any generated enthusiasm. 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

We sort of have a formula now of North West, North East and London. 

If we are looking to sell out every ticket and give the London game a real push, I can see the value of 2 x 25k grounds and then the big ground in London. 

Our record for a Kiwi series was 7 years ago with c92k, but then we did drop to 75k in 2018.

We should be looking for growth and to beat the record. 25k at Wigan, 25k at Hudds and push for 50k+ at Spurs and you have hit your 100k mark. Ideally more if you sellout spurs. 

Newcastle has Magic, Leeds maybe has the Cup Semis, London has Wembley and Spurs. 

For me it's sensible yet remains ambitious enough to deliver growth. 

I think that would be a good approach

As for New Zealand, I think I'd prefer Samoa, Tonga or Australia, but in truth I'd just be delighted if we get some 2023 internationals nailed down before the world cup starts

[Tommygilf]

43 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

Assuming the NRL go for an international window (we'll see) then we could ask Greece and Lebanon to come up. It would allow Serbia to tap into players from Aus as well. I think the Pacific nations will be more than happy to stay down south and compete locally.

Fair enough in season it totally makes sense, post season however we should take advantage of the ability to play antipodean opposition.

[Guest]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Fair enough in season it totally makes sense, post season however we should take advantage of the ability to play antipodean opposition.

We'll have to head down there then which I think would be better for the sport. Play in Port Moresby or Suva.

[welshmagpie]

At the same time, our journalists and news outlets should be doing all they can to promote the 2023 Euros - which England (in some form) will be partaking 

https://www.intrl.sport/news/road-to-france-rlwc2025-qualifying-process-announced/