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D-Day England release new kit! (Needs it's very own thread)


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11 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Just as an example about what I mean when were talking about Brand, look at the official England scalf that they are holding - does that look like its a scale for the team of the shirt in the middle?

Changing the colours from red and white to blue and white - OK, then do it properly.

 

That shot looks like a promo shot for two different teams that are playing each other

 

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It looks like a promo for England v Scotland 

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42 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtlespacer.png

Grey?!

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I completely understand your point. 

However, there are many, many examples of other better run sports than us doing the same with secondary (and sometimes primary) colours, and it not being an issue. I respectfully suggest we are over thinking it. 

But ultimately, I just think it's a very nice shirt. 

 

I work in Branding - consistency and application really do matter, the playing kit is one of if not a sports clubs main piece of Branding. Add some blue - no issues whatsoever, ditching the Red is just plain daft when everything branding wise has had red in it leading up to the launch and the WC.

Take that England badge off that shirt realistically which team would you have said it was for - I bet England wouldn't have been in your top 3 answers.

The actual design of the shirt is totally subjective.

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44 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Quick 5 minutes in Photoshop, I don't think this is particularly good but I think if you want to adopt a chevron and incorporate the GB colours and blue then something like this would have been better IMO as its more subtlespacer.png

Id love to see a couple more or your ideas when u get time to knock them up

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If the main complaint is that red is missing, I've provided a handful of examples of other sports doing the same on kits. Many of these are using world class brands, way stronger than ours and Oxen's. 

I don't think your examples were as extreme as this, and the fact that they already had stronger brands means that they can pull changing the colours off because they will actually do a good job of communicating the change and advertising it - we have a blue and white shirt on  a website where all the branding is red and white or at least red white and blue.

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I guarantee if Oxen had released that kit people would be complaining. 

Without question. 

You're not wrong - but the complaint would've been more 'you're trying to be like England football' or 'It looks more GB'. Actually what we're seeing is many fans saying it doesn't look at all like an England (or even GB) jersey - more like Scotland, which says a lot IMO. It is very subjective and even I have to concede it's better than the last, but for reasons i've already mentioned - even that fact comes with a sour taste. 

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5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I work in Branding - consistency and application really do matter, the playing kit is one of if not a sports clubs main piece of Branding. Add some blue - no issues whatsoever, ditching the Red is just plain daft when everything branding wise has had red in it leading up to the launch and the WC.

Take that England badge off that shirt realistically which team would you have said it was for - I bet England wouldn't have been in your top 3 answers.

The actual design of the shirt is totally subjective.

It's a common thing that teams do. Obviously many people feel differently to you. 

Same exercise regarding the badge with the other kits I highlighted earlier in the thread. When a design is changed (which has been acknowledged here) that would always be the case. 

The George Cross has been lambasted here for years, branded a cheap Sports Direct chav kit. We now move into what is a more traditional RL design and fans are no happier. 

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11 minutes ago, RP London said:

This is the type of think that is really annoying me... 

The shirt does look much better in this photo to be honest.. still doesnt smack of "england" to me but i can see it growing on me if they were to keep with this type of look. (can someone next time take Ralphs jacket off though as it merges with the sleeve... nice to see him up and about though!)

Ralph actually came up with the design when his navy blue jacket parted to reveal his white shirt and blue sash at a recent freemasons dinner. 

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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's a common thing that teams do. Obviously many people feel differently to you. 

Same exercise regarding the badge with the other kits I highlighted earlier in the thread. When a design is changed (which has been acknowledged here) that would always be the case. 

The George Cross has been lambasted here for years, branded a cheap Sports Direct chav kit. We now move into what is a more traditional RL design and fans are no happier. 

Its not a traditional England RL design though is it.

Of course people think differently to me, we are all different, I'm just putting my opinion across and with my knowledge of how brands and branding works

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8 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I don't think your examples were as extreme as this, and the fact that they already had stronger brands means that they can pull changing the colours off because they will actually do a good job of communicating the change and advertising it - we have a blue and white shirt on  a website where all the branding is red and white or at least red white and blue.

England cricket colours were completely different. Dark blue and red vs light blue. 

England football went with light blue sleeves. 

I don't think having red white and blue branding across other merch and websites is going to be an issue for an England team. 

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1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Its not a traditional England RL design though is it.

Of course people think differently to me, we are all different, I'm just putting my opinion across and with my knowledge of how brands and branding works

Neither is the one you put on. 

It doesn't have to be. 

They have actively acknowledged that they have gone in a different direction. 

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Just now, Chrispmartha said:

Even though Im against adopting GB colours into the England Kit I feel this would have been preferable as at least it keeps some consistency with the England Brand.

 

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Can i ask, when you say brand, do you just mean colour? Because that is nothing like. An England kit either.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

England cricket colours were completely different. Dark blue and red vs light blue. 

England football went with light blue sleeves. 

I don't think having red white and blue branding across other merch and websites is going to be an issue for an England team. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree, your cricket example isn't valid because they have different kits for different version of cricket, they always have had.

 

there is also the fact that both England Cricket and England football play far far more many matches in whatever kit they have for that year, and they have far better marketing teams than England RL do.

We've decided to change the kit to blue and white in a World Cup where we are playing in a group where the other teams play in blue and white - real joined up thinking there!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Can i ask, when you say brand, do you just mean colour? Because that is nothing like. An England kit either.

Your making the mistake of thinking that is what I would do. It was just an example of using the red in the design.

Colour is a massive part of a brand yes, as I say be honest take the England badge off the new shirt would you have said that was England's shirt for the World Cup?

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4 minutes ago, Jughead said:

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Thats the rumoured England football shirt for this World Cup. Not very England, either. 

Christ.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree, your cricket example isn't valid because they have different kits for different version of cricket, they always have had.

 

there is also the fact that both England Cricket and England football play far far more many matches in whatever kit they have for that year, and they have far better marketing teams than England RL do.

We've decided to change the kit to blue and white in a World Cup where we are playing in a group where the other teams play in blue and white - real joined up thinking there!

 

 

The cricket example is perfectly valid, I am referring to ODI form. 

 

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I don't think navy blue will be adopted as the key colour for England going forward. I honestly think this is driven by Oxen and their desire for difference to try and sell the product, and not have something too close to what they produced previously creating a perceived conflict.

My frustrations are all borne out of what i consider to be another missed opportunity to produce something extremely good. Standards within Oxen and the RFL are far too low.

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14 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Ralph actually came up with the design when his navy blue jacket parted to reveal his white shirt and blue sash at a recent freemasons dinner. 

whats the phrase.. "never a truer word said than in jest?" or similar!!!

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2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Your making the mistake of thinking that is what I would do. It was just an example of using the red in the design.

Colour is a massive part of a brand yes, as I say be honest take the England badge off the new shirt would you have said that was England's shirt for the World Cup?

Well no, I am taking what you say at face value. 

You are being critical that it is not recognisable as an England shirt, but your only change is adding red. Neither of the shirts you mocked up look like England RL shirts, something you are really critical of (it doesn't bother me). 

I'm really not sure what your criticism is, other than they've taken red out of the kit - something you have no issues with for other sports. 

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8 minutes ago, Jughead said:

spacer.png

Thats the rumoured England football shirt for this World Cup. Not very England, either. 

to be fair.. can i jsut add.. not very nice either!

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Just now, RP London said:

to be fair.. can i jsut add.. not very nice either!

 

1 minute ago, RP London said:

 

I think you'll find the correct response is... 

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Christ. 

 

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Christ.

 

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