England v Fiji game moved to Salford.

[wayne_r]

A shocking decision - would have filled the stadium

[Big Doug]

On 27/07/2022 at 15:11, Athleticgrounds said:

I am purely guessing here, if the football  club put out a statement it will be to the effect that " due to the possibility of litigation we were unable to negotiate with the Rugby club on this issue"    As I say just a guess.

If it does turn out to be a constructed campaign against Hornets, then no doubt the football club's sponsors may like to consider their position. One of Hornets strengths is that they have a very strong sponsorship team, it has to be to cover running 4 teams.

It sounds like a sponsor has already pulled out. Reside no longer sponsor the football club. I heard that the groundsman has also had enough and left.

It looks as though the new board at RAFC do not want to put any money into the club and as a result are trying to screw everyone else.

At least they have had a good start to the season, a 2 v 1 loss. The bookies are very seldom wrong.

[Cw25]

13 hours ago, Big Doug said:

It sounds like a sponsor has already pulled out. Reside no longer sponsor the football club. I heard that the groundsman has also had enough and left.

It looks as though the new board at RAFC do not want to put any money into the club and as a result are trying to screw everyone else.

At least they have had a good start to the season, a 2 v 1 loss. The bookies are very seldom wrong.

At least their fans will be able to say they have got out the fourth division finally, When they drop !. Really hate that football club.

[HornetsGrey]

On 31/07/2022 at 22:26, Big Doug said:

It sounds like a sponsor has already pulled out. Reside no longer sponsor the football club. I heard that the groundsman has also had enough and left.

It looks as though the new board at RAFC do not want to put any money into the club and as a result are trying to screw everyone else.

At least they have had a good start to the season, a 2 v 1 loss. The bookies are very seldom wrong.

Deary me.   The 8 or so people that post on here do the club no favours.  You are certainly not representative of the silent majority.   I stopped posting on here years ago and see that the hate and vitriol continue.   Why can't we see the positives.   The directors and fans of the football club have just put £800k into the club to pay for the pitch and pay off the mortgage that was needed to cover the denehurst park stadium company debts.   And they have ensured that the stadium is preserved for sport in the town into perpetuity.   No owner can walk in, and then sell the stadium for development.   That has to be good for both Hornets and Dale.    As a follower of sport across our town I can see only positives.  But then I don't have an agenda. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

56 minutes ago, HornetsGrey said:

Deary me.   The 8 or so people that post on here do the club no favours.  You are certainly not representative of the silent majority.   I stopped posting on here years ago and see that the hate and vitriol continue.   Why can't we see the positives.   The directors and fans of the football club have just put £800k into the club to pay for the pitch and pay off the mortgage that was needed to cover the denehurst park stadium company debts.   And they have ensured that the stadium is preserved for sport in the town into perpetuity.   No owner can walk in, and then sell the stadium for development.   That has to be good for both Hornets and Dale.    As a follower of sport across our town I can see only positives.  But then I don't have an agenda. 

I don’t see many positives coming Hornets way since the football club got a new board recently. Before they started throwing their weight around relations between the two clubs were pretty amicable. I would have thought the football club have got enough battles to fight without looking for more.

[The Lad]

11 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

Deary me.   The 8 or so people that post on here do the club no favours.  You are certainly not representative of the silent majority.   I stopped posting on here years ago and see that the hate and vitriol continue.   Why can't we see the positives.   The directors and fans of the football club have just put £800k into the club to pay for the pitch and pay off the mortgage that was needed to cover the denehurst park stadium company debts.   And they have ensured that the stadium is preserved for sport in the town into perpetuity.   No owner can walk in, and then sell the stadium for development.   That has to be good for both Hornets and Dale.    As a follower of sport across our town I can see only positives.  But then I don't have an agenda. 

I agree that sport across the town needs to do well, but relations between the football and rugby are at an all time low.  While i will admit that some Hornets fans suffer from short-sightedness when it comes to the welfare of RAFC (as what affects them affects us) calling it vitriol is a bit far. When you take it as a whole what they want doesn't seem to be good for us.

Edited August 20, 2022 by The Lad

[HornetsGrey]

23 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I don’t see many positives coming Hornets way since the football club got a new board recently. Before they started throwing their weight around relations between the two clubs were pretty amicable. I would have thought the football club have got enough battles to fight without looking for more.

But the new Board has been appointed to run the football club as a fan owned entity.  One of the Board members is an elected fan representative.   The football club have enormous battles to retain their football league status and their relegation to League One has already cost them £1m per year in lost income.   Given they say it costs £0.5m a year to run the stadium they are focussed on managing that cost as best they can.   Their brief is to ensure financial sustainability so we can all enjoy Spotland for years to come.  But the new directors have put hundreds of thousands of their own money in and for posters on here to post what they do shocks me.   Why can't Hornets show the hand of friendship?   Why don't we benefit from a well run football club who can afford to run the stadium?  

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, HornetsGrey said:

But the new Board has been appointed to run the football club as a fan owned entity.  One of the Board members is an elected fan representative.   The football club have enormous battles to retain their football league status and their relegation to League One has already cost them £1m per year in lost income.   Given they say it costs £0.5m a year to run the stadium they are focussed on managing that cost as best they can.   Their brief is to ensure financial sustainability so we can all enjoy Spotland for years to come.  But the new directors have put hundreds of thousands of their own money in and for posters on here to post what they do shocks me.   Why can't Hornets show the hand of friendship?   Why don't we benefit from a well run football club who can afford to run the stadium?  

The next time somebody kicks you in the nuts - show them the hand of friendship.

[Anita Bath]

6 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

But the new Board has been appointed to run the football club as a fan owned entity.  One of the Board members is an elected fan representative.   The football club have enormous battles to retain their football league status and their relegation to League One has already cost them £1m per year in lost income.   Given they say it costs £0.5m a year to run the stadium they are focussed on managing that cost as best they can.   Their brief is to ensure financial sustainability so we can all enjoy Spotland for years to come.  But the new directors have put hundreds of thousands of their own money in and for posters on here to post what they do shocks me.   Why can't Hornets show the hand of friendship?   Why don't we benefit from a well run football club who can afford to run the stadium?  

Its a shareholder owned club…. no test of whether you are a fan or not when shares are offered for sale and those with most shares have the most power.

if a shareholder decides he/she has had enough and wants to start going to old trafford he/she does not have to forgo his/her shares.

This fan-owned club stuff is simply marketing.

[HornetsGrey]

17 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Its a shareholder owned club…. no test of whether you are a fan or not when shares are offered for sale and those with most shares have the most power.

if a shareholder decides he/she has had enough and wants to start going to old trafford he/she does not have to forgo his/her shares.

This fan-owned club stuff is simply marketing.

You haven't understood it Anita.   The recent share issue was controlled so that only season ticket holders or fans on the ticket data base could buy shares.    And as it is a private company and the company secretary controls whether to accept a share transfer its pretty much protected.   And the largest shareholder is the Dale Trust and those shares are also owned by 1500 Dale fans.   I look back at 2009 and wish we had done this.   In fact we could so easily have prevented the old Hornets going under had we been savvy enough to ask fans to buy shares.   Dale fans have done it for the love of the club and over 800 (I think) now own shares.   They won't get dividends or a return on the investment.  They won't be popping off to Old Trafford either.    Surely we could have done the same.

The trouble with the co-operative scheme is that it didn't engage enough people.   We couldn't even get 200 people to join.   And it didn't raise any capital.  Thank goodness for Paul's money.  Anyway that is in the past and we are now owned by an individual until he decides he doesn't want it.   I don't have any issues with the fella at all - but one day he will move on and we will regret that we didn't invest in the club in 2009.  At least Spotland is safe from property speculators

[Athleticgrounds]

2 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

You haven't understood it Anita.   The recent share issue was controlled so that only season ticket holders or fans on the ticket data base could buy shares.    And as it is a private company and the company secretary controls whether to accept a share transfer its pretty much protected.   And the largest shareholder is the Dale Trust and those shares are also owned by 1500 Dale fans.   I look back at 2009 and wish we had done this.   In fact we could so easily have prevented the old Hornets going under had we been savvy enough to ask fans to buy shares.   Dale fans have done it for the love of the club and over 800 (I think) now own shares.   They won't get dividends or a return on the investment.  They won't be popping off to Old Trafford either.    Surely we could have done the same.

The trouble with the co-operative scheme is that it didn't engage enough people.   We couldn't even get 200 people to join.   And it didn't raise any capital.  Thank goodness for Paul's money.  Anyway that is in the past and we are now owned by an individual until he decides he doesn't want it.   I don't have any issues with the fella at all - but one day he will move on and we will regret that we didn't invest in the club in 2009.  At least Spotland is safe from property speculators

Sadly the social media rants of our Chairman do him no favours. I too think he is decent bloke who genuinely wants the club to succeed, however I think he may do a runner, thinking it is a bridge too far. let's face it Rochdale people are abysmal in supporting their town teams and with the odd exceptional seasons, always have been.

[Anita Bath]

6 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

You haven't understood it Anita.   The recent share issue was controlled so that only season ticket holders or fans on the ticket data base could buy shares.    And as it is a private company and the company secretary controls whether to accept a share transfer its pretty much protected.   And the largest shareholder is the Dale Trust and those shares are also owned by 1500 Dale fans.   I look back at 2009 and wish we had done this.   In fact we could so easily have prevented the old Hornets going under had we been savvy enough to ask fans to buy shares.   Dale fans have done it for the love of the club and over 800 (I think) now own shares.   They won't get dividends or a return on the investment.  They won't be popping off to Old Trafford either.    Surely we could have done the same.

The trouble with the co-operative scheme is that it didn't engage enough people.   We couldn't even get 200 people to join.   And it didn't raise any capital.  Thank goodness for Paul's money.  Anyway that is in the past and we are now owned by an individual until he decides he doesn't want it.   I don't have any issues with the fella at all - but one day he will move on and we will regret that we didn't invest in the club in 2009.  At least Spotland is safe from property speculators

Not true… There was no test of fandom either past, present or future.

Sure, many who bought shares were current fans, but there was nothing to stop someone buying shares who wasnt a fan.  They were probably suspicious of anyone wanting to buy a large amount of shares, and paid attention to them.

 

And what is to stop anyone who bought shares saying they have had enough after the clubs worst ever start to a season and stopping being a fan.  Will dale be sending the fan detector van round to all their shareholders periodically?

I am not suggesting it wasnt a good move by the board, but the title ‘fan owned’ is a tagline only, 

Isnt Mazey (and his pals) a fan? If so then arent hornets ‘fan owned’?

 

The trouble with the ‘co op’ model is one membership one vote’. Difficultto attract large investors in a one member one vote model. Why stick in a million when a thousand gives you as much influence. There arent many Paul Omerods around as we found out and you could become a member without being a fan ( however you define that)

[HornetsGrey]

18 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Not true… There was no test of fandom either past, present or future.

Sure, many who bought shares were current fans, but there was nothing to stop someone buying shares who wasnt a fan.  They were probably suspicious of anyone wanting to buy a large amount of shares, and paid attention to them.

 

And what is to stop anyone who bought shares saying they have had enough after the clubs worst ever start to a season and stopping being a fan.  Will dale be sending the fan detector van round to all their shareholders periodically?

I am not suggesting it wasnt a good move by the board, but the title ‘fan owned’ is a tagline only, 

Isnt Mazey (and his pals) a fan? If so then arent hornets ‘fan owned’?

 

The trouble with the ‘co op’ model is one membership one vote’. Difficultto attract large investors in a one member one vote model. Why stick in a million when a thousand gives you as much influence. There arent many Paul Omerods around as we found out and you could become a member without being a fan ( however you define that)

You are just wrong on the first point.   Applicants for shares were rejected for not meeting the test that you say didn't exist.  Dale is as fan owned as any other club now - only time will tell if it works.   But the stadium is now protected, their Board has paid off the previous stadium company debts, and there is nobody able to take control of the club unless the fans vote for it.   

Hornets future is now in the hands of one man.   The fans have no say.   Time will tell whether that is a good thing or not.  What is clear to me is that we can't carry on without more cash (whether that be more support or more of Mazeys cash).   I want us to stay at Spotland.....but something has to be done to repair the relationship.   Public rants are unhelpful and do not reflect the spirit of cooperation achieved in modern times.   Both clubs would have been extinct 30 years ago had they not started to share one stadium.  The RFL agreed the deal with RAFC after old hornets folded.   They created the current arrangements that we now need to follow unless we renegotiate the terms.  

Our focus now is to focus on finishing the season strongly. 

[Big Doug]

15 minutes ago, HornetsGrey said:

You are just wrong on the first point.   Applicants for shares were rejected for not meeting the test that you say didn't exist.  Dale is as fan owned as any other club now - only time will tell if it works.   But the stadium is now protected, their Board has paid off the previous stadium company debts, and there is nobody able to take control of the club unless the fans vote for it.   

Hornets future is now in the hands of one man.   The fans have no say.   Time will tell whether that is a good thing or not.  What is clear to me is that we can't carry on without more cash (whether that be more support or more of Mazeys cash).   I want us to stay at Spotland.....but something has to be done to repair the relationship.   Public rants are unhelpful and do not reflect the spirit of cooperation achieved in modern times.   Both clubs would have been extinct 30 years ago had they not started to share one stadium.  The RFL agreed the deal with RAFC after old hornets folded.   They created the current arrangements that we now need to follow unless we renegotiate the terms.  

Our focus now is to focus on finishing the season strongly. 

Since the new board at RAFC have taken over the spirit of cooperation with Hornets has gone out of the window. Pror to them taking over it was an amicable union. The things that they have done to Hornets have been nothing short of petty, and disgusting. In the past both clubs have needed the other to get themselves out of the S**T. Short memories it would seam.

[Anita Bath]

6 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

You are just wrong on the first point.   Applicants for shares were rejected for not meeting the test that you say didn't exist.  Dale is as fan owned as any other club now - only time will tell if it works.   But the stadium is now protected, their Board has paid off the previous stadium company debts, and there is nobody able to take control of the club unless the fans vote for it.   

Hornets future is now in the hands of one man.   The fans have no say.   Time will tell whether that is a good thing or not.  What is clear to me is that we can't carry on without more cash (whether that be more support or more of Mazeys cash).   I want us to stay at Spotland.....but something has to be done to repair the relationship.   Public rants are unhelpful and do not reflect the spirit of cooperation achieved in modern times.   Both clubs would have been extinct 30 years ago had they not started to share one stadium.  The RFL agreed the deal with RAFC after old hornets folded.   They created the current arrangements that we now need to follow unless we renegotiate the terms.  

Our focus now is to focus on finishing the season strongly. 

rejected on what criteria……not a current shareholder, season ticket holder or on some ticket database?

 

Many shares have been passed down through families with current holders possibly having no connection to the club other than a worthless piece of paper. The club cannot simply repossess shares of folks who are no longer fans.
The club have played several big time cup games in recent years including at Wembley…..no glory hunters there I suppose….all died in the wool fans.

Others were prevented from transferring shares to potential buyers dueto the risk of a takeover. So how are all current shareholders ‘fans’….they are clearly reluctant owners of these bits of paper.  

The club made a valiant attempt to spread shareholdings among current ‘fans’ but that doesnt stop them being a shareholder owned club.

 

 

 

 

[HornetsGrey]

20 hours ago, Big Doug said:

Since the new board at RAFC have taken over the spirit of cooperation with Hornets has gone out of the window. Pror to them taking over it was an amicable union. The things that they have done to Hornets have been nothing short of petty, and disgusting. In the past both clubs have needed the other to get themselves out of the S**T. Short memories it would seam.

You do realise that the previous Board at Dale were trying to sell the club behind shareholders backs for personal gain that would have eventually closed Spotland don't you?    Talk about blinkered.   I won't make any judgements on how the relationship has changed because all I have seen is few rants in Twitter when people are drunk and comments on here from you which are probably without foundation.  Both Boards need to work together.   Looking back I would have preferred that we had accepted Chris Dunphys offer to take over hornets as part of RAFC.   That would have created a less divisive culture.  

Anyhow I am keen to understand how the 99% of fans feel who never post on here.   I was talking to my 86 year old aunt yesterday who has attended games since she was 7.   Her views are more balanced than yours to be honest.  Both clubs have needed each other to get them out of the S**T for over 35 years I agree.  And without Dale agreeing to take on the stadium debt from Hornets administration and agreeing a deal with the RFL I doubt a new Hornets would have been born.  Remember we were also on our knees when we left the Athletic Grounds too.  

[Big Doug]

3 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

You do realise that the previous Board at Dale were trying to sell the club behind shareholders backs for personal gain that would have eventually closed Spotland don't you?    Talk about blinkered.   I won't make any judgements on how the relationship has changed because all I have seen is few rants in Twitter when people are drunk and comments on here from you which are probably without foundation.  Both Boards need to work together.   Looking back I would have preferred that we had accepted Chris Dunphys offer to take over hornets as part of RAFC.   That would have created a less divisive culture.  

Anyhow I am keen to understand how the 99% of fans feel who never post on here.   I was talking to my 86 year old aunt yesterday who has attended games since she was 7.   Her views are more balanced than yours to be honest.  Both clubs have needed each other to get them out of the S**T for over 35 years I agree.  And without Dale agreeing to take on the stadium debt from Hornets administration and agreeing a deal with the RFL I doubt a new Hornets would have been born.  Remember we were also on our knees when we left the Athletic Grounds too.  

THe more i read from you the more I am covinced you are a Footbal Club troll on this site.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

You do realise that the previous Board at Dale were trying to sell the club behind shareholders backs for personal gain that would have eventually closed Spotland don't you?    Talk about blinkered.   I won't make any judgements on how the relationship has changed because all I have seen is few rants in Twitter when people are drunk and comments on here from you which are probably without foundation.  Both Boards need to work together.   Looking back I would have preferred that we had accepted Chris Dunphys offer to take over hornets as part of RAFC.   That would have created a less divisive culture.  

Anyhow I am keen to understand how the 99% of fans feel who never post on here.   I was talking to my 86 year old aunt yesterday who has attended games since she was 7.   Her views are more balanced than yours to be honest.  Both clubs have needed each other to get them out of the S**T for over 35 years I agree.  And without Dale agreeing to take on the stadium debt from Hornets administration and agreeing a deal with the RFL I doubt a new Hornets would have been born.  Remember we were also on our knees when we left the Athletic Grounds too.  

How were we on our knees when we left the Athletic Grounds ? We’d just sold the ground to Morrisons for mega bucks. What happened to the mega bucks subsequently is another story. I’ve seen the books for that period and we’d loads in the bank ( over £1 million ).

[HornetsGrey]

On 24/08/2022 at 17:49, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How were we on our knees when we left the Athletic Grounds ? We’d just sold the ground to Morrisons for mega bucks. What happened to the mega bucks subsequently is another story. I’ve seen the books for that period and we’d loads in the bank ( over £1 million ).

The comment was based on the need to sell to Morrisons.   We couldn't afford to keep the stadium going.  The "profit" from the sale was welcome at the time of course.   We all have a view whether that money was well spent.   But we were financially unable to stay at the Athletic Grounds as well you know.  The ground sharing deal rescued both clubs 

 

[HornetsGrey]

On 31/07/2022 at 20:19, wayne_r said:

A shocking decision - would have filled the stadium

Thank god we didn't host it - a half filled stadium and lots of those attending had free tickets.   We'd surely have lost money

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, HornetsGrey said:

Thank god we didn't host it - a half filled stadium and lots of those attending had free tickets.   We'd surely have lost money

 

I didn’t go but my wife did. She came back buzzing as to what a great night it had been inspite of the lop sided score. Lots of kids from Rochdale there enjoying themselves and the Turners dance troupe were amazing apparently. Joe got on and did himself proud by all accounts.

You sound like the sort of person who “ Knows the price of everything but the value of nothing “. It was a disgrace that the game was moved and and it’s to the football clubs eternal shame that the football clubs machinations caused it to be moved.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Athleticgrounds]

5 hours ago, HornetsGrey said:

Thank god we didn't host it - a half filled stadium and lots of those attending had free tickets.   We'd surely have lost money

 

Rochdale would have turned out if it was at Spotland.....they did the last time Fiji were there.... Salford is a nightmare ground to access. Loads I know wouldn't travel, sponsors were lost, a really sad state of affairs for the town.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Athleticgrounds said:

Rochdale would have turned out if it was at Spotland.....they did the last time Fiji were there.... Salford is a nightmare ground to access. Loads I know wouldn't travel, sponsors were lost, a really sad state of affairs for the town.

That applied to me. I’m recovering from a key hole abdomenal surgery. I choose not to go to Salford but I would have gone to Spotland. I’d paid for my ticket.