RFL ban transgender women from female competitions

[Damien]

And also the RFU. This seems co-ordinated between the two sports:

The Rugby Football League (RFL) and Rugby Football Union (RFU) have banned transgender women from competing in female-only forms of their games.

The RFL's board approved its new policy which will come into effect in August.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/62349297

[Tommygilf]

Nice to know Ralph has been doing something at least.

[Damien]

I know when this was discussed when the IRL made their ban announcement there was discussion about the numbers involved. It is interesting to note that the RFU ban affects 6 transgender women from, what I presume, is a larger playing pool. 

[EggFace]

Excellent News....now can we just go back to old school jerseys as well.

[Anita Bath]

Can anyone feel a new Manly shirt on the way?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I know when this was discussed when the IRL made their ban announcement there was discussion about the numbers involved. It is interesting to note that the RFU ban affects 6 transgender women from, what I presume, is a larger playing pool. 

The numbers are irrelevant because even one trans athlete can have a big effect. Just look at that swimmer over in America. The numbers are probably going to grow. The Tavistock clinic said there was a surge in children presenting with gender dysphoria.

[gingerjon]

9 hours ago, Damien said:

It is interesting to note that the RFU ban affects 6 transgender women from, what I presume, is a larger playing pool. 

Statistically, it will make the square root of naff all difference to the safety of women (on or off the pitch) or to the integrity of women's sports.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Statistically, it will make the square root of naff all difference to the safety of women (on or off the pitch) or to the integrity of women's sports.

True on point 1. You cannot be sure on point 2.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

True on point 1. You cannot be sure on point 2.

I think you can because - putting all the science and morals to the side - even with this storm surge of trans women (which even with the highest numbers is still well under 0.1% of the population) the numbers are not there to change anything. And we have two decades of evidence from sports where trans people have been able to participate that their presence is so minor as to not actually register in the numbers unless researchers specifically look for them.

Even Lea Thomas lost more events than she won, and remains, I believe*, pretty slow compared to actual Olympic standard swimmers.

(* = swimming is not my thing and I haven't gone back to check what I read at the time)

[Dunbar]

As I have said before, the correct decision but don't add me to the list of people happy to see people banned from playing our sport.

There aren't enough trans players for their own comp and so now any (small) number of trans women are not going to play Rugby League now.  While it is a necessary decision, it doesn't feel like a great outcome.

I guess some people will be celebrating this but I am not going to join them.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think you can because - putting all the science and morals to the side - even with this storm surge of trans women (which even with the highest numbers is still well under 0.1% of the population) the numbers are not there to change anything. And we have two decades of evidence from sports where trans people have been able to participate that their presence is so minor as to not actually register in the numbers unless researchers specifically look for them.

Even Lea Thomas lost more events than she won, and remains, I believe*, pretty slow compared to actual Olympic standard swimmers.

(* = swimming is not my thing and I haven't gone back to check what I read at the time)

A Look At the Numbers and Times: No Denying the Advantages of Lia Thomas

Linked article explains the advantages that Lia Thomas had. Of course an exceptional athlete can overcome the odds but it isn't fair to expect women to compete against men who have gone through puberty and thus retain the physical advatages of men.

Edited July 30, 2022 by NW10LDN

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

I think you can because - putting all the science and morals to the side - even with this storm surge of trans women (which even with the highest numbers is still well under 0.1% of the population) the numbers are not there to change anything. And we have two decades of evidence from sports where trans people have been able to participate that their presence is so minor as to not actually register in the numbers unless researchers specifically look for them.

Even Lea Thomas lost more events than she won, and remains, I believe*, pretty slow compared to actual Olympic standard swimmers.

(* = swimming is not my thing and I haven't gone back to check what I read at the time)

I think that is still being presumptuous and stops the second point being a fact in the way that the first is. 

Ultimately neither you or I can say for certain how the integrity of women's sport would be affected, or not, in the future by trans-athletes if they continued to be allowed to participate in female only categories. We can have opinions, as you have stated yours is that it will have none. I'm more reticent, or at least more open to the idea that there are potential impacts there. But ultimately they are only opinions.

I think Lia Thomas raised the profile massively because she is competitive on a national level; and further to that competitive on a national level far more than she was as a male athlete. Sports cannot just ignore that. I can see potential for there to be a compromise between participation in recreational and elite/competitive sport in future.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I can see potential for there to be a compromise between participation in recreational and elite/competitive sport in future.

Yes, ultimately, here in the UK at least, the issue is only going to impact one cyclist at senior level and a very, very small number of people at grassroots level.

Given the level of reporting about the issue, if there was a trans woman playing rugby union/league or football/cricket to a high level, then it would have been covered by the press. As far as I'm aware, nobody fits the bill?

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

some people will be celebrating this but I am not going to join them.

Some people really show their true colours when they get to punch down.

[David Shepherd]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

And also the RFU. This seems co-ordinated between the two sports:

The Rugby Football League (RFL) and Rugby Football Union (RFU) have banned transgender women from competing in female-only forms of their games.

The RFL's board approved its new policy which will come into effect in August.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/62349297

Good. Whoever thought having biological men colliding with women in a brutal contact sport was a good idea should be nowhere near Rugby League.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, ultimately, here in the UK at least, the issue is only going to impact one cyclist at senior level and a very, very small number of people at grassroots level.

Given the level of reporting about the issue, if there was a trans woman playing rugby union/league or football/cricket to a high level, then it would have been covered by the press. As far as I'm aware, nobody fits the bill?

I know there is a cricketer in Kent who smashes bowlers around the park for fun.

Tbh, stories may also not have come out because of the level of women's sport and interest in it.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I know there is a cricketer in Kent who smashes bowlers around the park for fun.

Maxine Blythin.

Played two games at regional level in 2020 (scoring 50 and 6) and hasn't played that high again since.

I'd say the fact that you know about her at all, with that record, shows that the level of reporting of "trans women in sport" is running far, far ahead of general interest or reporting in either women's sport or sport in general.

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Maxine Blythin.

Played two games at regional level in 2020 (scoring 50 and 6) and hasn't played that high again since.

I'd say the fact that you know about her at all, with that record, shows that the level of reporting of "trans women in sport" is running far, far ahead of general interest or reporting in either women's sport or sport in general.

Tbf, I only know because I was told by a cricket nut friend. I haven't picked it up anywhere else.

[Chrispmartha]

Could it have something to do with the RFL struggling to get insurance?

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, ultimately, here in the UK at least, the issue is only going to impact one cyclist at senior level and a very, very small number of people at grassroots level.

Given the level of reporting about the issue, if there was a trans woman playing rugby union/league or football/cricket to a high level, then it would have been covered by the press. As far as I'm aware, nobody fits the bill?

Yet

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Could it have something to do with the RFL struggling to get insurance?

No, not as other sports have done the same and followed Swimmings lead. This merely follows on from the previous IRL announcement. I also think its clear that there has been conversations between the RFL and RFU, hence the timing of both announcements, to come up with something very similar.

[The One]

Definitely the right decision but it’s a tricky one without any perfect resolution.

Edited July 30, 2022 by The One

[David Shepherd]

5 minutes ago, The One said:

Definitely the right decision but it’s a tricky one without any perfect resolution.

20 years ago, women's, wheelchair, LD & PD rugby was practically unherd of. With enough players interested, there's absolutely no reason why there can't be trans rugby too if those people feel they can't play with their biological peers.

Absolutely no reason to exclude them from Tag rugby, it's just full contact where the safety issue exists.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

20 years ago, women's, wheelchair, LD & PD rugby was practically unherd of. With enough players interested, there's absolutely no reason why there can't be trans rugby too if those people feel they can't play with their biological peers.

Absolutely no reason to exclude them from Tag rugby, it's just full contact where the safety issue exists.

The article specifically says other forms if the game will remain mixed:

Touch, tag, X-League, learning disability rugby league and wheelchair rugby remain mixed gendered.

[gingerjon]

53 minutes ago, Damien said:

The article specifically says other forms if the game will remain mixed:

Touch, tag, X-League, learning disability rugby league and wheelchair rugby remain mixed gendered.

Wheelchair rugby is a contact sport.