Hgv drivers-new proposal

[The storm]

New government initiatives to curb HGV driver shortages include in the UK include allowing car drivers to drive a HGV without a test

This is one of the most insane things i  have ever heard

[JohnM]

Worse even than Leigh being promoted? 

 

#fakenews

The truth of the matter is merely this;  The Department for Transport has launched a “call for evidence” on a number of proposals intended to address the ongoing shortage of HGV drivers. Among these  (proposals) are removing previous restrictions imposed by the EU on the maximum mass of vehicle a motorist could drive on a standard B1 class licence.

Mind you, a lot of car drivers are already practiced a key HGV driver skill: driving whilst on a hand-held mobile phone.

Edited August 10, 2022 by JohnM

[Oxford]

2 hours ago, The storm said:

New government initiatives to curb HGV driver shortages include in the UK include allowing car drivers to drive a HGV without a test

This is one of the most insane things i  have ever heard

It's only deregulation, neoliberal solutions Ltd a bit like cladding, only on the roads.

We should all be used to this by now.

Keith! Wilbur!

Edited August 10, 2022 by Oxford

[JohnM]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

It's only deregulation, neoliberal solutions Ltd a bit like cladding, only on the roads.

We should all be used to this by now.

Keith! Wilbur!

#youarewastedonhereyoushouldbeonthestage

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

#youarewastedonhereyoushouldbeonthestage

I'm sorry you can't see the thinktank to policy of right wing groups but If you wish to pay me for my appearance let me know.

It's propsoed and wait and see if the opposition is great or indifferent but it's all small steps in a long process.

Deregulation makes for easier profits because you don't have any interference and safety issues are part of the things that get in the way.

It will increase and so will privitisation. This means there's little point in being upset about notions like this.

#notbothered

[Derwent]

12 hours ago, Oxford said:

I'm sorry you can't see the thinktank to policy of right wing groups but If you wish to pay me for my appearance let me know.

It's propsoed and wait and see if the opposition is great or indifferent but it's all small steps in a long process.

Deregulation makes for easier profits because you don't have any interference and safety issues are part of the things that get in the way.

It will increase and so will privitisation. This means there's little point in being upset about notions like this.

#notbothered

You do realise that if you passed your driving test before 1997 then you are automatically allowed to drive 7.5 tonners anyway ? This "deregulation" would simply be a reversing of the EU edict that passing your test after 1997 didn't give you automatic entitlement to drive those. 

Think about it - a doddery 75 year old with slow reflexes who passed his test in the 1970s could jump behind the wheel of a 7.5t vehicle quite legally. A fit and healthy 30 year old could not because of an EU regulation. 

[JohnM]

 a doddery 75 year old with slow reflexes who passed his test in the 1970s could jump behind the wheel of a 7.5t vehicle quite legally.

That's not quite correct. In fact, its totally incorrect. I trust this will set your mind at rest,

When you reach 70 you MUST renew your licence and make various health declarations. You must then do the same every 3 years until at age 80, you must re-apply every year.

On renewal at 70 and thereafter, you will lose your C1 and C1E rights unless you pass a D4 medical.  This means for example, you will not be allowed to drive a motorhome with a GVW of 3.5 tonnes or over, or a minibus full of fit and healthy 30 year olds who have lost their licences under the "12 points and you're out rule - 0r "6 points and you're" out in the first two years after passing your test.

Category C1- vehicle between 3,500kg-7,500kg with trailer up to 750kg MAM.

 Category C1E(107)- Vehicle between 3,500kg-7,500kg with trailer over 750kg. (107:Total weight must not exceed 8,250kg MAM).

In any event, at any time, and at any age, you are required to report certain medical conditions to DVLA for their approval to continue driving. Not only that, if you have your eyes tested at an opticians for any reason, there are legally required to notify DVLA if you have certain problems such as glaucoma, field vision problems and more. In that case DVLA will require you to pass certain tests (normally at Specsavers - they have the contract for this) and if you do not pass, your licence will be forfeit.

Medical conditions, disabilities and driving: Telling DVLA about a medical condition or disability - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) 

Driving licence categories - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Cars

Category B - if you passed your test before 1 January 1997

You’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg maximum authorised mass (MAM). View your driving licence information to check.

You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).

You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg.

You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old.

Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles.

Edited August 11, 2022 by JohnM

[Oxford]

3 hours ago, Derwent said:

You do realise that if you passed your driving test before 1997 then you are automatically allowed to drive 7.5 tonners anyway ? This "deregulation" would simply be a reversing of the EU edict that passing your test after 1997 didn't give you automatic entitlement to drive those. 

Think about it - a doddery 75 year old with slow reflexes who passed his test in the 1970s could jump behind the wheel of a 7.5t vehicle quite legally. A fit and healthy 30 year old could not because of an EU regulation. 

Really is that the basis for your argument?

Blame the EU and stereotype the old !

As I said deregging will lead to deaths but that will not prevent it happening anymore than privatisation can be stopped. There's profits in them there Hills !

 

[Derwent]

58 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Really is that the basis for your argument?

Blame the EU and stereotype the old !

As I said deregging will lead to deaths but that will not prevent it happening anymore than privatisation can be stopped. There's profits in them there Hills !

 

It isn't deregulation, it is evening things up between those who passed their driving test before an arbitrary date and those who passed afterwards, giving them the same rights. I thought your sort were all for equal rights for everyone ?

And I wasn't stereotyping anyone, I was using extreme ends of the scale to highlight a point. Why should an arbitrary date disallow some people from automatically having the right to do what other people can ? I fall into the pre-1997 category having passed my test in 1984 but what makes me more able to drive a 7.5t vehicle than someone who passed their test in 1998 ? Its just another bureaucratic regulation that has no logical basis.

[gingerjon]

18 minutes ago, Derwent said:

I thought your sort were all for equal rights for everyone

His sort?

[Derwent]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

His sort?

Political leanings

[gingerjon]

On 10/08/2022 at 14:04, The storm said:

New government initiatives to curb HGV driver shortages include in the UK include allowing car drivers to drive a HGV without a test

This is one of the most insane things i  have ever heard

I presume insurers would rather someone driving a lorry had passed a test to show that they can, actually, drive a lorry?

[Oxford]

30 minutes ago, Derwent said:

It isn't deregulation, it is evening things up between those who passed their driving test before an arbitrary date and those who passed afterwards, giving them the same rights. I thought your sort were all for equal rights for everyone ?

And I wasn't stereotyping anyone, I was using extreme ends of the scale to highlight a point. Why should an arbitrary date disallow some people from automatically having the right to do what other people can ? I fall into the pre-1997 category having passed my test in 1984 but what makes me more able to drive a 7.5t vehicle than someone who passed their test in 1998 ? Its just another bureaucratic regulation that has no logical basis.

When you remove regulations that's deregulation.

This is in no way an attempt to even thing up and that belongs in the dressing up box at your local nursery school.

When driving test were passed is irrelevant no matter how many times you say it.

You seem to be confusing what you think is happening with the real intentions of think tanks and policy. If your agrument help confuse the issue and muddy the waters all the better but they're nothing to do with the reals aims or goals.

As I said I don't care if it happens and I'm sorry for the undoubted death that will be caused but it's a march that can't be stopped.

As most people drive their cars like they can defy the laws of Physics  having a test can hardly be described as bureaucratic regulation.

I hate to be disagreeable but are you getting these arguments from the insane nerds at the Institute of Economic Affairs or from a member of the repugnant and incompetent Bullingdon Club?

 

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I presume insurers would rather someone driving a lorry had passed a test to show that they can, actually, drive a lorry?

I agree I think citizens have a right to a certain amount of protection when it come to several tonnage of lethal weapon.

 

Sadly though and unlike Grenfell the deregulation on motorways will just look like another really bad pile up.

 

[JohnM]

26 minutes ago, Derwent said:

It isn't deregulation, it is evening things up between those who passed their driving test before an arbitrary date and those who passed afterwards, giving them the same rights. I thought your sort were all for equal rights for everyone ?

And I wasn't stereotyping anyone, I was using extreme ends of the scale to highlight a point. Why should an arbitrary date disallow some people from automatically having the right to do what other people can ? I fall into the pre-1997 category having passed my test in 1984 but what makes me more able to drive a 7.5t vehicle than someone who passed their test in 1998 ? Its just another bureaucratic regulation that has no logical basis.

On what basis do you currently have a class C LGV ( Large Goods Vehicle) licence?. Didn't you have to pass a specific HGV2 or HGV3 test prior to 1997? 

Also, I've addressed the issue of doddery over 75 years olds in a previous post, but can add this, from 2014

The General Medical Council (GMC) has just announced beefed-up guidance for GPs about informing the Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA) if their patients shouldn’t be on the roads. There are 37 million drivers in the UK, and nearly 160,000 notifications to the DVLA last year of drivers being unfit to drive – but the GMC believes doctors should be doing more.

Doctors and driving – the new rules | Doctor Sarah Jarvis health blog | Patient

[JohnM]

If you drive in breach of your driving licence condition, validity, categories etc etc, your insurance will be invalid. If you are medically unfit to drive, your insurance will be invalid.  When taking out or renewing your insurance, you are agreeing to those conditions.

[glossop saint]

35 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I presume insurers would rather someone driving a lorry had passed a test to show that they can, actually, drive a lorry?

Yeah but you used to be able to do it in the olden days and the olden days are better so...

[gingerjon]

26 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Yeah but you used to be able to do it in the olden days and the olden days are better so...

MEN WERE MEN AND LORRIES DIDN'T CARE ABOUT PRONOUNS

[JonM]

47 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The General Medical Council (GMC) has just announced beefed-up guidance for GPs about informing the Driver and Vehicle Licencing Agency (DVLA) if their patients shouldn’t be on the roads. There are 37 million drivers in the UK, and nearly 160,000 notifications to the DVLA last year of drivers being unfit to drive – but the GMC believes doctors should be doing more.

There's a sad news story I've been following. There was an accident last year near Cambridge. A woman in her 70s turned into the path of an oncoming van, forcing it onto the pavement, resulting in the death of a child. The driver of the car is facing charges of causing death by dangerous driving. The facts of what happened are not disputed, but her lawyers are pleading not guilty on the grounds of insanity. Their case is based on the woman's dementia, undiagnosed before the accident. What makes it worse in this particular case is that friends of hers had concluded she was not safe to drive some years earlier, but not done anything about it.

If this defence succeeds, it's quite likely that there will be some new legal requirement that people are regularly checked for dementia. Not obvious to me how that is going to work, given the GP service is unable to cope with the existing workload in much of the country.

[JohnM]

friends of hers had concluded she was not safe to drive some years earlier, but not done anything about it.

That's a very important point and one we should all bear in mind, first and foremost when it comes to close relatives.

Edited August 11, 2022 by JohnM

[Oxford]

16 minutes ago, JonM said:

Not obvious to me how that is going to work, given the GP service is unable to cope with the existing workload in much of the country.

Well the idea is two fold it keeps up the idea that old means incapable which some people love, it also makes the NHS look bad so you can sell it more easily. The more it fails the easier it becomes.

 

1 hour ago, Derwent said:

Political leanings

I don't care enough to have political leanings anymore I read an interesting article the other day that stated the Labour Party were there to fill in when the Tories need a rest and I think that about sums up politics for mine.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Oxford

[JonM]

13 minutes ago, JohnM said:

friends of hers had concluded she was not safe to drive some years earlier, but not done anything about it.

That's a very important point and one we should all bear in mind, first and foremost when it comes to close relatives.

Not necessarily very easy to persuade people that they're no longer fit to drive, of course.

I may have told this story on here before. Friend of mine had a severe mental health episode. Eventually got him to go the GP. I mentioned to the GP after he'd left that I was worried about his (very much out of character) reckless driving and what could she do. She suggested that pragmatically, hiding his keys was probably a lot safer for everyone than her getting his licence suspended.

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, JonM said:

Not necessarily very easy to persuade people that they're no longer fit to drive, of course.

I may have told this story on here before. Friend of mine had a severe mental health episode. Eventually got him to go the GP. I mentioned to the GP after he'd left that I was worried about his (very much out of character) reckless driving and what could she do. She suggested that pragmatically, hiding his keys was probably a lot safer for everyone than her getting his licence suspended.

It's always sad when people can no longer cope for whatever reason.

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

It isn't deregulation, it is evening things up between those who passed their driving test before an arbitrary date and those who passed afterwards, giving them the same rights. I thought your sort were all for equal rights for everyone ?

And I wasn't stereotyping anyone, I was using extreme ends of the scale to highlight a point. Why should an arbitrary date disallow some people from automatically having the right to do what other people can ? I fall into the pre-1997 category having passed my test in 1984 but what makes me more able to drive a 7.5t vehicle than someone who passed their test in 1998 ? Its just another bureaucratic regulation that has no logical basis.

No matter what date you passed your driving test you still need to do a CPC course every 5 years if you want to earn a living driving anything over 3.5 tons. 

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

No matter what date you passed your driving test you still need to do a CPC course every 5 years if you want to earn a living driving anything over 3.5 tons. 

Unless its Methusaleh of course who passed his test BC and can drive a leviathan anywhere apparently.