Saints vs. Huddersfield off in WSL

[RigbyLuger]

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2022/08/11/saints-womens-trip-to-giants-postponed/

Off the back of Michael Carter saying he couldn't get his women's game against Warrington postponed without consequences, this seems strange.

[daz39]

Probably a lack of players, Giants women have been playing 16-18 year olds all year.

Unlike St Helens ( and York and Leeds) who get preferential treatment we won't have the benefits they do so i will imagine for the other teams and Huddersfield this is going to be all too common for a few years as we try and progress the game.

[RBKnight]

32 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Probably a lack of players, Giants women have been playing 16-18 year olds all year.

Unlike St Helens ( and York and Leeds) who get preferential treatment we won't have the benefits they do so i will imagine for the other teams and Huddersfield this is going to be all too common for a few years as we try and progress the game.

What preferential treatment ?

[daz39]

2 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

What preferential treatment ?

The fact that the national team coaches are based at these clubs and the girls are told they have to go and play for one of them if they want to play internationally, they're almost like mini England camps, i understand the idea behind it but it doesn't help the young girls at other clubs when they're getting slaughtered by these women every week.

Plus money, our girls do it for free, the top clubs pay handsome expenses for travel/accommodation and missing work.

[RigbyLuger]

20 minutes ago, daz39 said:

The fact that the national team coaches are based at these clubs and the girls are told they have to go and play for one of them if they want to play internationally, they're almost like mini England camps, i understand the idea behind it but it doesn't help the young girls at other clubs when they're getting slaughtered by these women every week.

Plus money, our girls do it for free, the top clubs pay handsome expenses for travel/accommodation and missing work.

That why Shona Hoyle left?

[RBKnight]

I can assure you that the Knights Ladies are on the outside of the England set-up..... plenty of good York players - e.g Sinead Peach, easily the best 9 in the comp - are being overlooked.

Surely it is up to other clubs to raise their standards ? If York, as a part-time championship club, can ensure proper training, coaching and strength and conditioning, surely a Super League club can do it ?

How does it look to a young player when they play home games on a YMCA pitch instead of your home stadium ? 

[daz39]

8 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

I can assure you that the Knights Ladies are on the outside of the England set-up..... plenty of good York players - e.g Sinead Peach, easily the best 9 in the comp - are being overlooked.

Surely it is up to other clubs to raise their standards ? If York, as a part-time championship club, can ensure proper training, coaching and strength and conditioning, surely a Super League club can do it ?

How does it look to a young player when they play home games on a YMCA pitch instead of your home stadium ? 

Huddersfield Giants women aren't run by the club, they are funded by a charity and are a seperate entity to the pro club.

[daz39]

10 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

That why Shona Hoyle left?

Yes, she was a huge signing for the Giants women but was told she wouldn't get picked for England playing for them so was 'persuaded' to leave after 1 game, there were also a couple of other potential big signings but they didn't get as far as signing before been 'advised'.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

4 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2022/08/11/saints-womens-trip-to-giants-postponed/

Off the back of Michael Carter saying he couldn't get his women's game against Warrington postponed without consequences, this seems strange.

Maybe the fact that Warrington were the home side and were "unable" to offer an alternative date?  That's the only difference I can see, although neither Saints and Giants looked to have agreed on an alternative date yet. 

To fulfil the fixture Wakefield had to use 4 under 19s and take 6 loan players from Bradford so goodness knows how bad the situation is for the Shuddesses.

[gingerjon]

And we want to pretend we're in a good position to build on the momentum from England winning the women's football Euros?

[RigbyLuger]

39 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

Maybe the fact that Warrington were the home side and were "unable" to offer an alternative date?  That's the only difference I can see, although neither Saints and Giants looked to have agreed on an alternative date yet. 

To fulfil the fixture Wakefield had to use 4 under 19s and take 6 loan players from Bradford so goodness knows how bad the situation is for the Shuddesses.

Their Under 19s played Cas' on Wednesday, so it's all as clear as mud!

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

26 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Their Under 19s played Cas' on Wednesday, so it's all as clear as mud!

If Warrington had no alternative dates in our case then that's the difference.

[daz39]

12 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And we want to pretend we're in a good position to build on the momentum from England winning the women's football Euros?

From the people I know and speak to they are looking at getting a strong, successful international side first and foremost and hoping that then creates a domestic interest, hence the top players all been at the top 3 clubs where the national coaches and administrators can see and work with them on a regular basis rather than just international camps. 

Girls with England potential are 'advised' to go to either Saints Leeds or York to maximise their chances, and that's come from the mouth of a senior figure within the game. 

[RigbyLuger]

Strange how two of those top teams met on Sunday, and they put a game from the second division on Our League!

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, daz39 said:

From the people I know and speak to they are looking at getting a strong, successful international side first and foremost and hoping that then creates a domestic interest, hence the top players all been at the top 3 clubs where the national coaches and administrators can see and work with them on a regular basis rather than just international camps. 

Girls with England potential are 'advised' to go to either Saints Leeds or York to maximise their chances, and that's come from the mouth of a senior figure within the game. 

I can see that as a theory.

There does seem to be a lot of 'hope' involved in the development of the women's game.

[Eddie]

19 hours ago, daz39 said:

From the people I know and speak to they are looking at getting a strong, successful international side first and foremost and hoping that then creates a domestic interest, hence the top players all been at the top 3 clubs where the national coaches and administrators can see and work with them on a regular basis rather than just international camps. 

Girls with England potential are 'advised' to go to either Saints Leeds or York to maximise their chances, and that's come from the mouth of a senior figure within the game. 

If this is true, I’d question it is a plan to strengthen the England team because it means that the best players are only being tested against two other teams and aren’t going to learn much from most of their games if they’re dishing out canings. 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 12/08/2022 at 12:13, RigbyLuger said:

Strange how two of those top teams met on Sunday, and they put a game from the second division on Our League!

Good to know someone else managed to find out Wire v Fev was on Our League. I kept thinking "wonder if I`m the only person watching this?"

Used to feel the same abject despondency around 2 in the morning when Channel 4 were showing foreign films or experimental video art in the 80s.

Leeds v Saints at Headingley got about as much coverage as Saints v York played at Thatto Heath the week before.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 11/08/2022 at 21:14, daz39 said:

Yes, she was a huge signing for the Giants women but was told she wouldn't get picked for England playing for them so was 'persuaded' to leave after 1 game, there were also a couple of other potential big signings but they didn't get as far as signing before been 'advised'.

This would mean that Huddersfield`s ambition to be more competitive this year was actively suppressed.

[daz39]

10 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This would mean that Huddersfield`s ambition to be more competitive this year was actively suppressed.

Well it does mean they aren't but it's supposedly to improve the England women's team 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 12/08/2022 at 12:14, gingerjon said:

There does seem to be a lot of 'hope' involved in the development of the women's game.

We`re not out of the feminist workshop, inclusivity virtue-signal phase yet.

York have just signed 4 players from Déesses Catalanes. Wigan earlier on signed Lauréane Biville. Presumably short-term moves to help the French in the WC. Individuals and individual clubs are displaying initiative, but you`re right - in general, there`s a distinct lack of coordination.

[David Dockhouse Host]

League will develop better with evened out talent.

So if this is true and a concerted effort to create super teams at the expense of the whole league it is a very flawed approach IMO.

Naturally people are attracted to the best teams, fans, players coaches etc. So it's no surprise that the talent is going to the best clubs but it isn't good for the wider development of the sport. 

I'd be surprised if players are being told they won't play for England unless they are at one of the top 3 clubs? It may be that individuals may develop quicker that way, but it would be foolish for an International side to refuse to select a player due to their club choice? 

[daz39]

21 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

League will develop better with evened out talent.

So if this is true and a concerted effort to create super teams at the expense of the whole league it is a very flawed approach IMO.

Naturally people are attracted to the best teams, fans, players coaches etc. So it's no surprise that the talent is going to the best clubs but it isn't good for the wider development of the sport. 

I'd be surprised if players are being told they won't play for England unless they are at one of the top 3 clubs? It may be that individuals may develop quicker that way, but it would be foolish for an International side to refuse to select a player due to their club choice? 

Well i was surprised when i heard it too but it came straight from the mouth of someone who has/is/might be involved in the England squad, they aren't refusing them but the players are being advised, finances are of course involved, that it will massively improve their chances of playing for England should they move.

The explanation was that all the England coaches and administrators all hold positions at the top3 WSL teams as well as the National team, therefore without needing to hold seperate England camps, they can 'coach' them for England on a daily basis already thus the players been 'test match ready' all season.

These players will also be watched and advised everyday by the England top brass rather than relying on the coaches/admins to go around the country looking for talent, the talent is already picked and there for them.

As i said on a National team level it sounds a pretty good idea but to actively make the top 3 clubs even stronger simply for the benefit of the international team does seem a bit of a crazy idea when girls who are getting shallackings every week may simply feel the competition is unfair (it is, but for a purpose apparently) and just walk away from the game as a few have already.

Look at Cas Tigers and what happened to their fairly successful women's team, moreso the England players within it and where they are now, similar story i believe.

Edited August 14, 2022 by daz39

[RigbyLuger]

Someone at LE should look into this story!

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Someone at LE should look into this story!

Yes it should be debunked straight away (hopefully). With no money involved in terms of match payments then players should be able to play with their local clubs to keep expenses down. Going to places like Saints and Leeds because the England coaches are based there is no a good look.

The NRLW kicks off again next week with a £200,000+ salary cap per team for an 8-week competition. We are miles and miles away from that. 

[Tommygilf]

These 3 "preferred" teams wouldn't happen to be the teams who happen to take Women's RL most seriously would it?

There is also an undeniable truth that in an amateur league, getting noticed and putting yourself in consideration for representative honours is far easier to do in a top team. Representative selectors are notoriously lazy.

In any case, RL is an old boys club, why would the women's game be any different?