Referees explaining decisions

[barnyia]

Maybe a new way of informing fans about decisions made during their match by the match referee, a short video every week by every ref explaining their thinking and why etc , especially decisions where the crowd start booing

It could help fans understand the rules more, it could definitely help the French fans who blame the ref a lot. 

[barnyia]

It could also help coaches and players understand how each ref thinks creating less penalties as they will you understand how each ref works 

[Oxford]

1 minute ago, barnyia said:

Maybe a new way of informing fans about decisions made during their match by the match referee, a short video every week by every ref explaining their thinking and why etc , especially decisions where the crowd start booing

It could help fans understand the rules more, it could definitely help the French fans who blame the ref a lot. 

barnyia I think you may have missed the point of fans relationship with refs

a) we win despite the ref's efforts

b) we lose because of the ref's bias

c) we're sent off cos the ref was wrong

d) the ref applied the rules wrong and it's not the first time either!

e) Oh no not that ref again is the mantra of preperation a rite,

passed down through the generations

f) Refs are biased against us and for everyone else

If you think any amount of explanation can defeat that level of cultural belief carry on.

And French fans in particular understand the purpose and neccesity of the Salaud Arbi!

6 minutes ago, barnyia said:

It could also help coaches and players understand how each ref thinks creating less penalties as they will you understand how each ref works 

Coaches know ref's pecularities all too well and how they work, what buttons to push and which to avoid.

 

 

[barnyia]

The penalty on the fourth tackle is the killer, the French struggle due to lots of union on TV, different rules in super League, NRL and elite 1, 

Surely it could at least clear things up if he explains a few decisions, maybe a few fans may understand the game a little better too, even though they'd still blame the ref

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, barnyia said:

The penalty on the fourth tackle is the killer, the French struggle due to lots of union on TV, different rules in super League, NRL and elite 1, 

Surely it could at least clear things up if he explains a few decisions, maybe a few fans may understand the game a little better too, even though they'd still blame the ref

Now I do have sympathy with some of the decisions that go against the French teams and I do think Toulouse have been hard done to the last 2 games. However this for me isn't a valid excuse, the French don't watch anything drastically different than any other SL player. The French clubs also have plenty of English and Australian players. They know what the SL rules and interpretations are as much as anyone else.

[Jughead]

I would be against it. Firstly, from a time aspect, games would go on for even longer than already do. We don’t need games to go on for even longer than they already do. 

Why should referees break down every decision? Do we not trust them? The only decisions I would have pumped into a stadium is the outcome of the video ref, not all the “next frame, slow, faster, slow” nonsense but the “I am awarding a try because the players left foot did not go into touch and the grounding was complete”.  

[barnyia]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Now I do have sympathy with some of the decisions that go against the French teams and I do think Toulouse have been hard done to the last 2 games. However this for me isn't a valid excuse, the French don't watch anything drastically different than any other SL player. The French clubs also have plenty of English and Australian players. They know what the SL rules and interpretations are as much as anyone else.

I'm talking about the fans, the players know the rules etc, the fans don',t so always feel the refs are anti French and super League are trying to get rid of them!

[Blind side johnny]

4 minutes ago, barnyia said:

I'm talking about the fans, the players know the rules etc, the fans don',t so always feel the refs are anti French and super League are trying to get rid of them!

I beg to differ.

[barnyia]

7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I would be against it. Firstly, from a time aspect, games would go on for even longer than already do. We don’t need games to go on for even longer than they already do. 

Why should referees break down every decision? Do we not trust them? The only decisions I would have pumped into a stadium is the outcome of the video ref, not all the “next frame, slow, faster, slow” nonsense but the “I am awarding a try because the players left foot did not go into touch and the grounding was complete”.  

During the week, when they've done their review I meant. 

 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, barnyia said:

I'm talking about the fans, the players know the rules etc, the fans don',t so always feel the refs are anti French and super League are trying to get rid of them!

Again English fans watch different interpretations across various competitions and can process the differences. I think it's ludicrous that these differences exist but I don't think an insurmountable obstacle either for any fan to understand.

[Jughead]

6 minutes ago, barnyia said:

During the week, when they've done their review I meant. 

 

Why? It’s not exactly showing trust in the referees, is it?

[barnyia]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Again English fans watch different interpretations across various competitions and can process the differences. I think it's ludicrous that these differences exist but I don't think an insurmountable obstacle either for any fan to understand.

I live here in France and hear so many fans calling the ref a lot of the fans have no idea about the rules, don't forget there's not much RL on TV here and only see the Catalan team play , the commentateur are old and biased too, even the radio commentator calls the ref, so if they only see dragons games and get influencedby the crowd or commentary they'll never know the real rules 

[barnyia]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

Why? It’s not exactly showing trust in the referees, is it?

Yes it is, usually they get most things right when you see games back, it's to educate fans, where do you find up to date rules or interpretations of if you're just a casual fan? 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, barnyia said:

I live here in France and hear so many fans calling the ref a lot of the fans have no idea about the rules, don't forget there's not much RL on TV here and only see the Catalan team play , the commentateur are old and biased too, even the radio commentator calls the ref, so if they only see dragons games and get influencedby the crowd or commentary they'll never know the real rules 

But you had previously said this:

48 minutes ago, barnyia said:

The penalty on the fourth tackle is the killer, the French struggle due to lots of union on TV, different rules in super League, NRL and elite 1, 

 

[barnyia]

Why did sky use Cummings in the commentary box for a few years, the problem with that was it was his interpretation of the rules and he didn't have time to study the incident before giving comments. 

 

[barnyia]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

But you had previously said this:

 

Yes but you have to be an avid fan to see these games, they're on Bein sports which you need to subscribe to, and you have to check each week the listings to find the games, 

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Yes it is, usually they get most things right when you see games back, it's to educate fans, where do you find up to date rules or interpretations of if you're just a casual fan? 

It’s not, though. Making them explain to the public their reasoning, rightly or wrongly, behind their decision making is not a good idea. I’m sure, like clubs, the referees have reviews early in the week but there’s no need to put things into the public domain that don’t really need to be there. 

You watch games, you use the internet. It’s 2022. 

I’d rather we cracked down on the “#gamesgonesoft” gang of players than put referees under even more of a microscope than they’re already under. 

[Dave T]

I think there are things that can be done better with regards this type of things for fans, and not because of any issues with refs in the slightest, but purely from a fan engagement point of view. 

I think the VR could be improved. The screen at Wire the other night was a waste of space from 100 metres away, maybe we could hear the VR's deliberations, or a brief explanation like in NFL. Conscious of slowing down the game though to Jughead's point. 

Sky have a weekly feature on football with an ex-ref, Dermot? where they discuss controversial decisions. I like this feature and I think it is an enhancement on what we did with Cummings. I think these clips could then be used in pre-match both at the ground and on Sky and can help to educate and explain. 

One final thing, and this is a huge bugbear of mine, referee signals appear to have become redundant, I don't know why. Referees basically use one signal now, which is to point their arm in the direction of the team who will get possession. But often it is difficult to know is it a scrum, a penalty, was the offence a forward pass, a knock on, offside? We used to have more clear and pronounced signals, for some reason these appear to have gone. 

[bobbruce]

10 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Why did sky use Cummings in the commentary box for a few years, the problem with that was it was his interpretation of the rules and he didn't have time to study the incident before giving comments. 

 

Mainly because the commentators got so many decisions wrong. Maybe something the French tv coverage could look to bring in. 

[The Blues Ox]

I actually think this would be a good idea and would help with empathy towards the referees and bring in a human element to their job which the fans do not undertand.

[LeeF]

The referees’ department for a number of seasons during Stuart Cummings’ time did do an explanation on Twitter each week of key decisions from the previous round of SL matches but it made little if any difference to the fans understanding or appreciation of those decisions. Fans just didn’t want to know and as for the claim that players understand the laws of the game. That’s the best laugh of the day. I would even go as far as saying that some coaches don’t even know the laws of the game 

[David Dockhouse Host]

Hose who have an anti ref mindset will just use it as an opportunity to pour more scorn onto officials.

Another avenue to abuse 

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, LeeF said:

 Fans just didn’t want to know and as for the claim that players understand the laws of the game. That’s the best laugh of the day. I would even go as far as saying that some coaches don’t even know the laws of the game 

In a WSL game this year, a player caught the ball inside 10m on a restart. Kyle Amor was summarizing for Our League and had no idea why a penalty was awarded. Commentator Sharon Shortle had to spell out the rule to him. This is a bloke in his mid-30s, with a lifetime in the game, including a long spell at the supposedly elite level.

In a YouTube series of interviews with players from the early years of women`s RL, some have explicitly said they were told by coaches - "Don`t worry about the rules, you`ll pick them up as you go".

Whom they`ll pick them up from is anyone`s guess since it`s painfully apparent at all levels of RL that most players and coaches have either never read, or don`t understand, the rulebook. If refs explain too much on the field, they risk straying into coaching.

This all encapsulates the culture of RL - simple game, designed to be so because the working-class can only grasp simple things. Thus familiarity with the rules is deemed incidental, and understanding the game requires no effort.

Edited August 13, 2022 by unapologetic pedant

[Yorks Tim]

When the Toronto games were first being televised (League 1 year) the referee's mic feed was given prominence in the TV sound mix. Was great for listening to what he was saying to the players and understanding his decisions.

Let's be honest, nobody much is going to check the referee's video summary half a week after the game has finished. By then you've usually sorted it out between your friends etc.

 

[jacksy]

No thanks, i hear and see too much of them now.