Mojo Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: That goes without saying Dunny, Australia are most probably still the favourites to win the comp even though they have lost more Australian born player's through them electing to play for other nations by way of the heritage rules. Nathan Cleary won't have the samoan and kiwi boys in the kangaroos (joking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Mojo said: You're a hard man to impress lol gotta give credit to To'o power too not many wingers can score tries like that especially in the finals Yet if that try had been scored in SL it would be down to poor defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 24, 2022 Author Share Posted September 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Yet if that try had been scored in SL it would be down to poor defence. Cody Walker had him full on and got swatted . He should have made that stick . His best effort was helping to take out his teammates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 19 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Yet if that try had been scored in SL it would be down to poor defence. That is true. I like To'o and he is one of the world's best wingers. But that is from his strength bringing the ball from his own line and close to the opposing try line. For him to score from 60 yards is embarrassing for Souths. He beat one tackle and at least 4 chasers fell over each other. As I say, a good try but should never have been scored. On the whole I enjoyed both semi finals but there needs to be some perspective when we talk about quality. Yes the intensity was there, yes the physical side, but there were also plenty of errors. The Eels kicked two consecutive long kicks out on the full... if that was a Super League half back, people would be talking about how shocking the quality is for weeks. 2 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Mojo said: Nathan Cleary won't have the samoan and kiwi boys in the kangaroos (joking) No he may just have some better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 46 minutes ago, Dunbar said: The Eels kicked two consecutive long kicks out on the full... if that was a Super League half back, people would be talking about how shocking the quality is for weeks. Very unlike Moses to do that once never mind twice, I would swop Moses in an instant 'as bad as he is' for any of the candidates that will be considered for half back in an England shirt. After today's game the final was being mentioned as the Battle of the two best 7's in the NRL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Very unlike Moses to do that once never mind twice, I would swop Moses in an instant 'as bad as he is' for any of the candidates that will be considered for half back in an England shirt. After today's game the final was being mentioned as the Battle of the two best 7's in the NRL. Who said Moses was bad? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: Who said Moses was bad? No one, but a Gud Un doesn't do that does he. Anyway comment on the other part please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: No one, but a Gud Un doesn't do that does he. Anyway comment on the other part please. I really don't understand your argument. Are you now saying that Moses is a bad player? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 30 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I really don't understand your argument. Are you now saying that Moses is a bad player? Am I heck, that is why I said I would swop him for anything we can offer, do you agree or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Am I heck, that is why I said I would swop him for anything we can offer, do you agree or not? Well, my post wasn't really anything to do with that. But seeing as though you ask, I would take Moses over any player we have available for England at 7, yes. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshmagpie Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 10 hours ago, SydneyRoosters said: Oledzki is going to be very important he is so talented and has loads of potential. He could become one the best props in the world. Fun (scary) fact: the moment he signs for a club outside of England, he’s no longer eligible for them* *unless he has an English born parent/grandparent. This is based on the current ‘residency‘ ruling from the IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 37 minutes ago, welshmagpie said: Fun (scary) fact: the moment he signs for a club outside of England, he’s no longer eligible for them* *unless he has an English born parent/grandparent. This is based on the current ‘residency‘ ruling from the IRL. Sounds strange. If Oledski plays for England in the World Cup and then (in theory) signs for an NRL club he can't become ineligible can he? I have never heard of a player becoming ineligible after they have made their international debut for a side. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshmagpie Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 34 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Sounds strange. If Oledski plays for England in the World Cup and then (in theory) signs for an NRL club he can't become ineligible can he? I have never heard of a player becoming ineligible after they have made their international debut for a side. Rhys Curran for France is one example. I do the eligibility processing for Wales, there’s a young lad at a super league academy who recently made his Super League debut that resides in north Wales to English family, the moment he leaves wales he’s no longer eligible even if we cap him prior. From the IRL laws: “Residence” means the place or location in which a Player has his/her primary home for each of the preceding sixty (60) months immediately prior to playing an international match. Subsequent to establishing his/her initial residency eligibility the Player must in each year prior to the year of his/her selection for such country be resident in the country for a minimum of 210 days in the preceding 12 months to maintain his/her residency eligibility. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 I've heard it mentioned that Kheirallah won't be eligible for France in 2023 because of not fulfilling the 210-day requirement. I suppose Oledzski is another one of these unusual cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, welshmagpie said: Rhys Curran for France is one example. I do the eligibility processing for Wales, there’s a young lad at a super league academy who recently made his Super League debut that resides in north Wales to English family, the moment he leaves wales he’s no longer eligible even if we cap him prior. From the IRL laws: “Residence” means the place or location in which a Player has his/her primary home for each of the preceding sixty (60) months immediately prior to playing an international match. Subsequent to establishing his/her initial residency eligibility the Player must in each year prior to the year of his/her selection for such country be resident in the country for a minimum of 210 days in the preceding 12 months to maintain his/her residency eligibility. I find that utterly bizarre. 3 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshmagpie Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I find that utterly bizarre. Likewise. Once capped you’re good for life would be my stance but sadly I’m not in charge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Robertson Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Mr Frisky said: Yet if that try had been scored in SL it would be down to poor defence. Super League or NRL - it was poor defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) I've been mulling over the wealth of talent available to Samoa in the backline. Suaalii doesn't look ready for an international #1 and I'm not sure that chucking in all the Penrith Panthers youngsters will offer them the best chance of beating England. This is how I think I'd go: FB - CRICHTON (speed, silkiness, a confidence player who could make the backline sing) RW - NOFOALUMA (a mature head, a try-scorer, a leader for Toa Samoa) RC - SUAALII (used as a strike centre/edge runner) LC - TABUIA-FIDOW (X-Factor, footwork, a gliding runner/support player) LW - TO'O (carries, power, metres, tries) I think this backline could be insanely fun and exhilarating to watch. I think Suaalii at RC inside Nofoaluma could be way better than having the young Rooster at #1. Anybody else like the look of this back five as much as I do? I'm practically salivating here! Edited September 25, 2022 by StandOffHalf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said: I've been mulling over the wealth of talent available to Samoa in the backline. Suaalii doesn't look ready for an international #1 and I'm not sure that chucking in all the Penrith Panthers youngsters will offer them the best chance of beating England. This is how I think I'd go: FB - CRICHTON (speed, silkiness, a confidence player who could make the backline sing) RW - NOFOALUMA (a mature head, a try-scorer, a leader for Toa Samoa) RC - SUAALII (used as a strike centre/edge runner) LC - TABUIA-FIDOW (X-Factor, footwork, a gliding runner/support player) LW - TO'O (carries, power, metres, tries) I think this backline could be insanely fun and exhilarating to watch. I think Suaalii at RC inside Nofoaluma could be way better than having the young Rooster at #1. Anybody else like the look of this back five as much as I do? I'm practically salivating here! Some good players there but I would make a few comments. Throwing Suaalii into the centre when he has played wing all year in first grade is a risk as it is a critical position defensively which requires experience for me. I don't think Crichton is a good full back as he doesn't have the passing game that all good full backs need in the modern game. Even using the same players, I think Suaalii on the wing, Crichton in the center and Tabuia-Fidow at full back makes them better. With Izack Tago in the other centre. Edited September 25, 2022 by Dunbar 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Some good players there but I would make a few comments. Throwing Suaalii into the centre when he has played wing all year in first grade is a risk as it is a critical position defensively which requires experience for me. I don't think Crichton is a good full back as he doesn't have the passing game that all good full backs need in the modern game. Even using the same players, I think Suaalii on the wing, Crichton in the center and Tabuia-Fidow at full back makes them better. With Izack Tago in the other centre. FB is the one that I really keep shifting back and forth on. I could see either Tabuia-Fidow or Crichton lighting things up for them there. Crichton and Tago could be fantastic in the centres. With so much talent at their disposal, I think it's going to be a challenge to pair and balance the back five, so that players are in optimal positions. I can't wait to see how they line up! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said: FB is the one that I really keep shifting back and forth on. I could see either Tabuia-Fidow or Crichton lighting things up for them there. Crichton and Tago could be fantastic in the centres. With so much talent at their disposal, I think it's going to be a challenge to pair and balance the back five, so that players are in optimal positions. I can't wait to see how they line up! I am not convinced Samoa are very well off at full back. Suali'i is probably going to be a very good full back but a genuine novice there at the top level. Crichton is not nearly as effective there for me as centre as he doesn't have the creative passing needed these days. And Tabuia-Fidow has played just 7 minutes of finals across 2 games. Full back would be one of the position I would want England to put under pressure in that first game on a huge international stage. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I am not convinced Samoa are very well off at full back. Suali'i is probably going to be a very good full back but a genuine novice there at the top level. Crichton is not nearly as effective there for me as centre as he doesn't have the creative passing needed these days. And Tabuia-Fidow has played just 7 minutes of finals across 2 games. Full back would be one of the position I would want England to put under pressure in that first game on a huge international stage. Yes, I very much agree. They've got loads of very capable, entertaining, classy centres and wingers, but nobody who's a first grade regular at #1. The reason why I might put Crichton there is his size and athleticism. I do like your points about The Hammer being a better passer. High bombs and north-south grubbers are on the Menu for the England halves. Certainly an area of Samoa that they should be homing in and focusing remorselessly on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I am not convinced Samoa are very well off at full back. Suali'i is probably going to be a very good full back but a genuine novice there at the top level. Crichton is not nearly as effective there for me as centre as he doesn't have the creative passing needed these days. And Tabuia-Fidow has played just 7 minutes of finals across 2 games. Full back would be one of the position I would want England to put under pressure in that first game on a huge international stage. I know you’ve made this point but it was highlighted i thought again in the Panthers v Souths game … kicking game and the central importance of it now . The last tackle kicks of Cleary compared to his opposite Illias were chalk and cheese in terms of range , threat and quality . Yes they’re not comparable as players in general but I thought that aspect was stark. In planning our side we need that player who can probe any weak point in a back three with quality kicking as well as ending our sets as good as possible Edited September 25, 2022 by DavidM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: I know you’ve made this point but it was highlighted i thought again in the Panthers v Souths game … kicking game and the central importance of it now . The last tackle kicks of Cleary compared to his opposite Illias were chalk and cheese in terms of range , threat and quality . Yes they’re not comparable as players in general but I thought that aspect was stark. In planning our side we need that player who can probe any weak point in a back three with quality kicking as well as ending our sets as good as possible Yes, for me it remains the area where Australia are still a long way ahead of England - not necessarily the short attacking kicks into the in goal that force a try or repeat set (Welsby, Lomax, Williams are pretty strong there) but the attacking bombs with players gaining possession under pressure 2 or 3 metres from their own line. Cleary can land these perfectly time and again for the full 80 and it leads to Penrith winning the grind. Our kicking game offers much better quality possession to the opposition, starting around the 20 metres each time. That really starts to add up over the full match and a key to Australian teams finishing strong. If I were Wane I would spend a disproportionate amount of time in preperation on the execution of the tactical kicking game. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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