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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is possible to dislike squad numbers and also not believe that the Aussies should act like spoilt brats who didn't get their way. 

It really is schoolboy stuff to trash something just because it isn't quite to a particular preference. But that is RL through and through. 

I don't think anyone disagrees massively with this, but i'd still put the root cause as a silly decision by the brilliant folk at RLWC.

 

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Just now, MattSantos said:

I don't think anyone disagrees massively with this, but i'd still put the root cause as a silly decision by the brilliant folk at RLWC.

 

It's only worthy of criticism if you don't like squad numbers. You're in that camp, so see it as a silly decision. 

FWIW, I wouldn't have squad numbers. But i wouldn't act like a spoilt kid if others wanted them and they were introduced. 

I don't feel strongly about squad numbers really, but I do feel strongly about nations taking the pee. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is possible to dislike squad numbers and also not believe that the Aussies should act like spoilt brats who didn't get their way. 

It really is schoolboy stuff to trash something just because it isn't quite to a particular preference. But that is RL through and through. 

RLWC are the ones who are trashing it though. The Aussies have such a competitive squad that they are simply applying squad numbers by seniority.

Allow teams who need it the option of squad numbers, but don't trample on tradition.

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1 minute ago, StandOffHalf said:

RLWC are the ones who are trashing it though. The Aussies have such a competitive squad that they are simply applying squad numbers by seniority.

Allow teams who need it the option of squad numbers, but don't trample on tradition.

If they cared so much for tradition, they wouldn't name a prop at number 6.

You can't champion tradition, AND the Aussies doing that. 

Edited by Dave T
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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

If they cared so much for tradition, they wouldn't name a prop at number 6.

You can't champion tradition, AND the Aussies doing that. 

Well, I am, so you can.

This is clearly a decision that the Kangaroos would have preferred not to make. The players past and present are quite sad I would imagine.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

If they cared so much for tradition, they wouldn't name a prop at number 6.

That's the whole point of this stupid decision though.  They haven't named any props at 6.  They have given out squad numbers. If they had to name a 6 then they have three players who play at 6 for their clubs (Wighton, Munster and Burton) so which should be at 6?

If the World Cup organisers had stuck with the traditional (and I think very successful) method of letting teams name a side and give them the numbers that they are playing on the day then every player that playing at 6 in the World Cup would be a stand off... every single one of them.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

That's the whole point of this stupid decision though.  They haven't named any props at 6.  They have given out squad numbers. If they had to name a 6 then they have three players who play at 6 for their clubs (Wighton, Munster and Burton) so which should be at 6?

If the World Cup organisers had stuck with the traditional (and I think very successful) method of letting teams name a side and give them the numbers that they are playing on the day then every player that playing at 6 in the World Cup would be a stand off... every single one of them.

I get it. You don't like squad numbers. 

And they have named a prop at no. 6.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I get it. You don't like squad numbers. 

And they have named a prop at no. 6.

Tell me what you like about squad numbers and I may come around.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Just now, Dave T said:

With respect, this is quite an arrogant post.

I don't see it as arrogant.

I believe that the people knocking Australia here are doing it because it is Australia - and as such are essentially defending the squad system that Australia are abusing and making a mockery of.

But I just want to know what it is about the use of squad numbers at this World Cup that makes it a better system to the one we have had before.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

I don't see it as arrogant.

I believe that the people knocking Australia here are doing it because it is Australia - and as such are essentially defending the squad system that Australia are abusing and making a mockery of.

But I just want to know what it is about the use of squad numbers at this World Cup that makes it a better system to the one we have had before.

 If England had done this, they would have been criticised. 

They are getting stick from Aussie fans and media on twitter. 

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edit

Edited by Dunbar
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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

 If England had done this, they would have been criticised. 

They are getting stick from Aussie fans and media on twitter. 

Stop deflecting.  I am asking what is the benefit to the tournament of using squad numbers.  That, and the fact that no team should need to name their preferred side if they don't want to before the tournament gas started,  has been my main point during all this discussion.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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In a world where the opening titles of Sky's coverage of Super League had a number 10 putting up a cross-field kick, I don't think it's too big a deal.

Like I said in a previous post: explain Rugby League's positions to an outsider.

And they'll say, "why is a winger feeding the scrum?". Or "why is a hooker (who you said would be in the middle of the front row) at the back of the scrum (where you said the loose forward would be)?".

I know: it's a big thing for some of us. Count me in. But, in the scheme of things, it's not that massive.

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Stop deflecting.  I am asking what is the benefit to the tournament of using squad numbers.  That, and the fact that no team should need to name their preferred side if they don't want to before the tournament gas started,  has been my main point during all this discussion.

You don't get to dictate what people discuss. 

My reply was a direct reply to your claim this is just because the Aussies did it. 

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11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

With respect, this is quite an arrogant post.

While we are on the theme of finding fault in other people's posts, I find the "I get it. You don't like squad numbers." line to be dismissive and disrespectful.  Do you really think all my posts on here have been about my personal preferences and not my desire to see Rugby League displayed in the best possible light at this World Cup.

I am not asking if you think I am right or wrong, I am asking what you think my motivations are... do you really think it is only my personal preference?  Because I can assure you it is not.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

You don't get to dictate what people discuss. 

My reply was a direct reply to your claim this is just because the Aussies did it. 

I asked you a question and you didn't answer it.  That is not me dictating anything.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I don't see it as arrogant.

I believe that the people knocking Australia here are doing it because it is Australia - and as such are essentially defending the squad system that Australia are abusing and making a mockery of.

But I just want to know what it is about the use of squad numbers at this World Cup that makes it a better system to the one we have had before.

The only response to why squad numbers are good seems to be "Other sports do it" 

 

That's it. That's not a reason at all. 

 

Reasons for positional numbers 

1 It shows the role of the player wearing that number. He wears 6 he is a 5/8.

2 It shows that a player has pushed his way into a starting side and that's worthy of recognition.

3 It adds to the legacy of players who have come before and earned the right to wear that number. 

 

Australia should have just picked their strongest squad and numbered them that way. There is no doubt about that. I haven't seen a single valid argument as to any advantage squad numbers have over positional numbers. Its perplexing to me how anyone can prefer a system with no actual purpose.  

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38 minutes ago, B rad said:

The only response to why squad numbers are good seems to be "Other sports do it" 

 

That's it. That's not a reason at all. 

 

Reasons for positional numbers 

1 It shows the role of the player wearing that number. He wears 6 he is a 5/8.

2 It shows that a player has pushed his way into a starting side and that's worthy of recognition.

3 It adds to the legacy of players who have come before and earned the right to wear that number. 

 

Australia should have just picked their strongest squad and numbered them that way. There is no doubt about that. I haven't seen a single valid argument as to any advantage squad numbers have over positional numbers. Its perplexing to me how anyone can prefer a system with no actual purpose.  

I like everything you say here, apart from where you say they ''should have picked their strongest squad and numbered them that way''. 

Several of the strongest 17 are still very much up in the air and to be determined over the coming weeks.

 

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It'd be better if Australia had a go at naming by position, of course. But I understand why they didn't want to - the very idea of it goes against their stated selection policy. The simple fact is they shouldn't have had to make the choice - it's a weird rule to have imposed, for no real gain that I can see? It's just typical brain fart rugby league administration creating issues where there weren't any. 

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21 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Again, the question is why should they?  They have been told the tournament has squad numbers and they have allocated squad numbers.  They are not the one's who have made a bad decision.  I am sure St Helens started Super League with their preferred team in 1 to 13 and this is how they ended up lining up for the Grand Final.

27

2

23

4

3

1

6

17

9

10

12

16

13

Apologies to being late to this topic.

Yes fair enough in your post but you are doing what is a commonality on this site in that you are preaching to the converted by simply stating that on these pages.

We on here don't need to see the numbers on the backs to see and know what position that particular player is in, or indeed who he is, BUT as it has been mentioned previously HOPEFULLY there are going to be a lot of new eyes watching this tournament on TV, to me there should be a legend on the screen showing the player's position 1 - 13 and the 4 subs with the player's names as an introduction at the start of the build up and prior to the kick off, even those of us who follow the game religiously will not be familiar with a lot of the player's in the tournament and most likely not to be able to pronounce the surnames of a lot of players but it would be easy to relate to "the right centre the, number 3" or indeed any other position and number.

So what is the reason for squad numbering in the first place when teams are taking the field and further more this pig headiness by the Australian's using this new system they have developed, it is not as though it is for commercial value and selling shirts at club level with your favourite's name and number on the back.

Use the old method of the shirt for the position it is much easier for everyone.

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