Newcastle thunder

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Of course they will. As you say, every club in every sport use players from outside of the town be it St Helens, Leigh, Penrith, Wasps or Manchester United. That is the nature of professional sport.

Im probably being a bit slow but I'm not really sure how that relates to your original point of Newcastle training outside of Newcastle though.

It doesn't relate to it, it is just the progression of a discussion, when you eluded to Newcastle utilising local player's and having another money man around the corner, I think we both agree that no club will go anywhere just utilusing local lads and along with the big wallet.

Just off topic, didn't Widnes in the 70's field a team of local lads?

[Anonymouse]

24 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

I'm suspicious that something is afoot Harry. The recent changes to the legal constitution of SLE are an indicator.

TOXIII don't seem overly concerned sat at the bottom of SL, despite Sky's see through attempts to big up the relegation battle.

Leigh are either supremely confident of promotion or know something we don't. They've signed lots of the current squad for next year. That's a massive financial risk for Degsy, all it need is a couple of injuries or a sending off in the MPG to go horribly wrong for him.

 

 

It is possible but either way Beaumont is going to be running a SL club next season. No one is going to stop Leigh in the playoffs, they will be up for it more than any game in the season so far, they have too much in their armoury, he knows he has a very good 90% + chance of promotion and who wouldn't invest their money with those kind odds of winning.

[Chris22]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Chris, what is this level? Honest Question. And it is also directed to the 11 who liked your post.

It was referring to being a competive Championship team.

By that, I meant regularly competing for play off places etc.

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

It doesn't relate to it, it is just the progression of a discussion, when you eluded to Newcastle utilising local player's and having another money man around the corner, I think we both agree that no club will go anywhere just utilusing local lads and along with the big wallet.

Just off topic, didn't Widnes in the 70's field a team of local lads?

Fair enough. 

I'm not sure I alluded to another money man. I am just hoping to see the positives in this situation, which is maybe another Geordie might be able to take the opportunity of playing regularly and get to develop to the point of gaining a move to a SL (or other full time club). And probably pretty relevant given it happened when they were part time previously, so hopefully will do again.

I'm afraid that is well before my time Harry. I'm sure it was more common a few decades ago. I think Celtic make quite a big deal of winning the European Cup with players born within a certain distance of the stadium back in the 60s. For better or worse though I think that sport has moved on from those times.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I like the bit where you have concocted that Toulouse don’t care despite numerous interviews and mid-season signings to the contrary. 

A point which is not so far removed from this Newcastle scenario in that if the attendances had been better and supported the owner in what he was trying to acheive would it have been different? So in answer to your answer to David I will add as far as Toulouse is concerned do the half a million or so Toulouse inhabitants care what the club is trying to do, I can't see their attendances of home support improving next year if they end up in the Championship as those they had this year SL and without the luxury of the away fans.

[Ovenden Grunt]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

A point which is not so far removed from this Newcastle scenario in that if the attendances had been better and supported the owner in what he was trying to acheive would it have been different? So in answer to your answer to David I will add as far as Toulouse is concerned do the half a million or so Toulouse inhabitants care what the club is trying to do, I can't see their attendances of home support improving next year if they end up in the Championship as those they had this year SL and without the luxury of the away fans.

I can assure you Toulouse have had some very good away followings at their grounds from some championship clubs. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

It was referring to being a competive Championship team.

By that, I meant regularly competing for play off places etc.

In the Championship I believe we have 3 levels, those who will be seriously challenging for promotion, the second level in that they will always (well nearly always) be away from the drop zone, and those unfortunate enough to be consistently struggling.

Which brings me to say how well Barrow have done this season from being promoted last year and expected to be in the bottom level to most likely reaching the play- offs, but they will not be challenging for promotion.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Ovenden Grunt said:

I can assure you Toulouse have had some very good away followings at their grounds from some championship clubs. 

Fair comment, As good as SL following?

[glossop saint]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

A point which is not so far removed from this Newcastle scenario in that if the attendances had been better and supported the owner in what he was trying to acheive would it have been different? So in answer to your answer to David I will add as far as Toulouse is concerned do the half a million or so Toulouse inhabitants care what the club is trying to do, I can't see their attendances of home support improving next year if they end up in the Championship as those they had this year SL and without the luxury of the away fans.

I think when Jughead and presumably David refer to Toulouse they are referring to the club, not the city. I am not sure where the original idea that Toulouse are not bothered has come from. I'd be very interested to see any evidence suggesting this is the case if anyone has any.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, glossop saint said:

I think when Jughead and presumably David refer to Toulouse they are referring to the club, not the city. I am not sure where the original idea that Toulouse are not bothered has come from. I'd be very interested to see any evidence suggesting this is the case if anyone has any.

Yes Saint I know it is the club, but will the city support the club, I think there could be a strong connection between Newcastles lack of support and this decision to go P.T. as for Toulouse it is a rhetorical question we shall have to see what happens if they do get relegated.

[David Shepherd]

14 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

I think when Jughead and presumably David refer to Toulouse they are referring to the club, not the city. I am not sure where the original idea that Toulouse are not bothered has come from. I'd be very interested to see any evidence suggesting this is the case if anyone has any.

It's just my impression from everything I've seen and read.

Sylvan Houles in particular seems not remotely stressed by the situation.

As I say, it's just my reading of the situation. Others may have a different interpretation.

Edited August 18, 2022 by David Shepherd

[David Shepherd]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes Saint I know it is the club, but will the city support the club, I think there could be a strong connection between Newcastles lack of support and this decision to go P.T. as for Toulouse it is a rhetorical question we shall have to see what happens if they do get relegated.

From a selfish point of view, I enjoy the annual jolly to Toulouse. So it's a bonus for me if they're in the championship next year.

[glossop saint]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes Saint I know it is the club, but will the city support the club, I think there could be a strong connection between Newcastles lack of support and this decision to go P.T. as for Toulouse it is a rhetorical question we shall have to see what happens if they do get relegated.

I think this is what the main criticism was in the first few pages of the thread. What did the people making the decisions expect in the first year of going full time? Were they naive to think that they would be top of the table or competing with 2 more established clubs? Did they expect the attendances to increase? If they did and that is why they have reverted to part time then that is disappointing and a bit worrying.

If it is more a case of losing funding then it is still disappointing and worrying but more understandable.

[glossop saint]

4 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

It's just my impression from everything I've seen and read.

Sylvan Houles in particular seems not remotely stressed by the situation.

As I say, it's just my reading of the situation. Others may have a different interpretation.

I'm hoping that the reason for Houles staying calm is more to do with sportsmen performing at their best when being in control of their emotions as opposed to anything more sinister. Time will tell I suppose.

[Thunder fan]

As long as we still have a club to watch next season thats all that matters to us, had more downs than ups over the years though love the thunder to bits and always will do, nobody knows how much we will spend next season and that is a fact its all rumours, if i was the owner id be peed off too this season, we will come back stronger from this, without a doubt.

[steve oates]

44 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It doesn't relate to it, it is just the progression of a discussion, when you eluded to Newcastle utilising local player's and having another money man around the corner, I think we both agree that no club will go anywhere just utilusing local lads and along with the big wallet.

Just off topic, didn't Widnes in the 70's field a team of local lads?

Just off topic indeed they did Harry, apart from one player who IIRC was from Warrington.

Back on topic there may be no funding for "lower clubs" come next season, so If Mr. Kurdi has undertaken a review of his position on that financially, and the progress (or lack of) on the field, then maybe the project will end.......

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Not got alot to add. Its a great shame for the players,  one less full time opportunity and seemingly we missed the boat on having Newcastle at magic.  Really strange to go full time and pull plug after just one season. 

If Toulouse are saying they might walk I think we are going to just have a franchised top league because there is no full time commercial future in losing teams like Toulouse to gain a Fev.  

On contracts, if players signed for longer than a year that will have to be honoured.

Yes it is a shame for Newcastle,  but I don't think that this should come as a complete shock to anyone as we discussed on another thread quite recently, it gives me no pleasure as I intimated to you they would probably take stock towards the end of next season not this, I think that the writing is on the wall.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Thunder fan said:

As long as we still have a club to watch next season thats all that matters to us, had more downs than ups over the years though love the thunder to bits and always will do, nobody knows how much we will spend next season and that is a fact its all rumours, if i was the owner id be peed off too this season, we will come back stronger from this, without a doubt.

I hope your enthusiasm is infectious in the Northeast.

[Ovenden Grunt]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fair comment, As good as SL following?

Definitely better than some. A great weekend out. ️

[binosh]

Firstly, this makes me realise we should be grateful for people like Derek Beaumont and Mark Campbell who are spending their money, trying to grow their respective  clubs and being ambitious trying to challenge the top table. Secondly it’s becoming much clearer SL needs to going back to minimum 14 teams and not stifling ambitious owners.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, binosh said:

Firstly, this makes me realise we should be grateful for people like Derek Beaumont and Mark Campbell who are spending their money, trying to grow their respective  clubs and being ambitious trying to challenge the top table. Secondly it’s becoming much clearer SL needs to going back to minimum 14 teams and not stifling ambitious owners.

Going to 14 clubs and keeping the same funding share out in SL - not even considering the next TV contract just around the corner could see further reductions - would mean each SL club would be near 1/4 million shy from what they now recieve, how many Chairman/Owners/Cheif Execs are going to agree to that?

[steve oates]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Going to 14 clubs and keeping the same funding share out in SL - not even considering the next TV contract just around the corner could see further reductions - would mean each SL club would be near 1/4 million shy from what they now recieve, how many Chairman/Owners/Cheif Execs are going to agree to that?

Not a chance of 14 at all as the top clubs will be facing less SKY funding, and a probable requirement by SKY to keep the third fixtures  going with the top clubs. 10 or 12 but no chance of 14.

[David Shepherd]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Going to 14 clubs and keeping the same funding share out in SL - not even considering the next TV contract just around the corner could see further reductions - would mean each SL club would be near 1/4 million shy from what they now recieve, how many Chairman/Owners/Cheif Execs are going to agree to that?

This is where SLE and hopefully IMG can get their backsides in gear and generate more revenue.

It's ludicrous that we have 1/6 of SL in France, but no significant TV deal in that territory. At some point France has to start paying it's way. Either SLE or the French clubs need to be selling much harder in that market.

We also need to be building on the success of Channel 4 in this country and getting more games on TV. 300,000+ viewers in the wide open TV market is significant and we've got to capitalise on that exposure through sponsorship.

[binosh]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Going to 14 clubs and keeping the same funding share out in SL - not even considering the next TV contract just around the corner could see further reductions - would mean each SL club would be near 1/4 million shy from what they now recieve, how many Chairman/Owners/Cheif Execs are going to agree to that?

The answer is in your response Harry, none of them will agree, however what is the point of partnering with IMG if they aren’t going to massively improve revenue streams and improve the TV deal to cover these costs.
 

We cannot afford for owners of clubs to give up like the Newcastle owner has, if Derek and Mark ever did that the game would be gone as there would be no team challenging for promotion and it would definitely be a closed shop.

[David Shepherd]

4 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Not a chance of 14 at all as the top clubs will be facing less SKY funding, and a probable requirement by SKY to keep the third fixtures  going with the top clubs. 10 or 12 but no chance of 14.

The recent change to SLE's legal constitution would suggest that 14 and even 16 clubs are being considered.