Yorkshire League & Lancashire League

[Barley Mow]

No, this isn't a call to bring back the County Leagues.

 

Just for fun (I know, I've got an odd idea of what's fun) I worked out what league tables would look like so far this season for matches played between teams from their own counties.

Below are the Yorkshire, Lancashire and 'others' league tables for the professional/semi-pro divisions.

Without wanting this to get into another what constitutes Lancashire discussion - I've used the traditional counties rather than current administrative areas.

Loop fixtures & Summer Bash mean that there will be different numbers of matches played by teams in Super League and Championship come the end of the season so I've added a percentage points column.

 

 

Most of it is pretty predictable based on the actual league tables, but Leeds are above Castleford and Halifax above Featherstone.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Barley Mow

[Number 16]

London's Evening Standard used to (still does?) publish such a league table for the capital clubs every week. The winner was then presented with a trophy at the end of the season 

Tbh, it's a bit of fun involving local rivalries that could work in RL if a county wide media outlet got involved. It may even put a couple of extra bums on seats if the paper/TV station bigs it up.

But a resounding NO to the return of formal county leagues!

[daz39]

Said for years we're Yorkshire's number 1 and now it's official

[Northern Eel]

Toulouse and Newcastle fighting it out each year for a place in the Elsewhere Super League. The true definition of yo-yo clubs there! 

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

No, this isn't a call to bring back the County Leagues.

 

Just for fun (I know, I've got an odd idea of what's fun) I worked out what league tables would look like so far this season for matches played between teams from their own counties.

Below are the Yorkshire, Lancashire and 'others' league tables for the professional/semi-pro divisions.

Without wanting this to get into another what constitutes Lancashire discussion - I've used the traditional counties rather than current administrative areas.

Loop fixtures & Summer Bash mean that there will be different numbers of matches played by teams in Super League and Championship come the end of the season so I've added a percentage points column.

 

 

Most of it is pretty predictable based on the actual league tables, but Leeds are above Castleford and Halifax above Featherstone.

Yorkshire Championship table doesn't add up

[Number 16]

19 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Yorkshire Championship table doesn't add up

Yorkshire has NEVER added up. Ever!

[marklaspalmas]

Elsewhere League 1 doesn't add up either.

I do like these tables though BM.

Thanks for posting.

[Barley Mow]

13 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Elsewhere League 1 doesn't add up either.

I do like these tables though BM.

Thanks for posting.

Ha ha. I knew there'd be mistakes and I knew someone would find them!

I'll take a look and revise them when I get time.

[yipyee]

Interesting and maybe a chance to include additional silverware into the game. We already have things like the Steve Prescot boot and I think warrington have one?

Maybe the loop fixtures could also be reginal with a focus on these tables towards the end of the year where teams may still have something to play for?

Looking at the tables, Leeds, Halifax and Wigan all still have something to play for..

Maybe remove the loop fixtures and have a separate Round Robin comp for county champions? Could play through the season and be a good chance to rest players and blood youngsters or go for a shot at the title?

[Barley Mow]

12 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Interesting and maybe a chance to include additional silverware into the game. We already have things like the Steve Prescot boot and I think warrington have one?

Maybe the loop fixtures could also be reginal with a focus on these tables towards the end of the year where teams may still have something to play for?

Looking at the tables, Leeds, Halifax and Wigan all still have something to play for..

Maybe remove the loop fixtures and have a separate Round Robin comp for county champions? Could play through the season and be a good chance to rest players and blood youngsters or go for a shot at the title?

I think that having stand alone matches for county/regional leagues would come across as being a bit too parochial nowadays.

I wouldn't be against a trophy for the champion club from each area based on existing Super League matches as these tables show - whether that be an RFL thing or independently sponsored/presented by media/commercial interests as suggested by Number 16.

[Anita Bath]

Thats how the lancashire and yorkshire leagues used to be run. They werent separate games, but the games in the regular league season against teams from your own county (with cumberland teams as they then were in the lancashire league) were used to form the separate county tables.

 

In those days teams played all teams in their own county home and away and cross over games against a handful of games against teams from the other county, based on previous seasons league positions. So for example Rochdale Hornets as a low lying team tended to play teams like Desbury, Batley, bramley and doncaster while wigan would play leeds, wakefield, castleford and hull.

[Barley Mow]

25 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Thats how the lancashire and yorkshire leagues used to be run. They werent separate games, but the games in the regular league season against teams from your own county (with cumberland teams as they then were in the lancashire league) were used to form the separate county tables.

 

In those days teams played all teams in their own county home and away and cross over games against a handful of games against teams from the other county, based on previous seasons league positions. So for example Rochdale Hornets as a low lying team tended to play teams like Desbury, Batley, bramley and doncaster while wigan would play leeds, wakefield, castleford and hull.

But I doubt many people would be in favour of us now having Leeds only playing Saints once a season and having Saints v Rochdale and Leeds v Doncaster home and away instead.

Maybe Leeds fans might

[Gerrumonside ref]

Keep it going please if you find time.

I think it provides a good talking point and a bit of fun for us traditionalists.

Am I right in thinking the actual County trophies of old are actually magnificent looking things too?

Maybe the historians on here can tell me?

[idrewthehaggis]

Hasn't the SL era been all about "escaping" the confines of being a Pennines exclusive sport?

Not sure where it would fit?

Idea A. But why not hold a pre season friendliesque competition.

Three games over December/January.

1st round SL club v non SL club, 2nd round SL club v SL club and non SL club v non SL club.

League Table from those two games. then 1v2 3v4 etc.

Idea B Convert loop fixtures into a complementary competition on their own. Either regional based or not. 

Idea C Reintro the County Cups via the Reserve teams

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

7 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Hasn't the SL era been all about "escaping" the confines of being a Pennines exclusive sport?

Not sure where it would fit?

Idea A. But why not hold a pre season friendliesque competition.

Three games over December/January.

1st round SL club v non SL club, 2nd round SL club v SL club and non SL club v non SL club.

League Table from those two games. then 1v2 3v4 etc.

Idea B Convert loop fixtures into a complementary competition on their own. Either regional based or not. 

Idea C Reintro the County Cups via the Reserve teams

 

I don’t think it has to fit or requires actual competition matches.

Its a bit like in the soccer when the media takes the London derbies played in the Premier League and creates a mini table based on the results.

I think this is what the OP is getting at anyway.

Can’t see the harm in it and nobody is accusing the London soccer media of being small time by doing it.

From what I understand we’ve even got some very ace looking old trophies to award the Lancashire/Yorkshire winners.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[Barley Mow]

50 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Keep it going please if you find time.

I think it provides a good talking point and a bit of fun for us traditionalists.

Am I right in thinking the actual County trophies of old are actually magnificent looking things too?

Maybe the historians on here can tell me?

Yorkshire Championship trophy on the left, Lancashire on the right. They seem to look almost identical.

As this week's matches start tonight, I'll have a look at where the errors are and update and repost early next week.

[Gerrumonside ref]

5 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Yorkshire Championship trophy on the left, Lancashire on the right. They seem to look almost identical.

As this week's matches start tonight, I'll have a look at where the errors are and update and repost early next week.

They really are magnificent trophies with a history that money can’t buy.

Would be great to parade these more often.

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

But I doubt many people would be in favour of us now having Leeds only playing Saints once a season and having Saints v Rochdale and Leeds v Doncaster home and away instead.

Maybe Leeds fans might

the cross county games were played home and away…. but there were only 3 cross county opponents (= 6 games) added to 14 same county opponents (=28 games) for a total of 34 games season.

An additional wrinkle- there were only 14 teams from Lancashire/cumberland and 16 in yorkshire so one yorkshire team was placed in the lancashire league. I think it tended to be a lower placed yorkshire team from west yorkshire, for obvious reasons.

While saints v rochdale twice a season for example might seem a recipe for hammerings, those games were often competitive. I remember seeing Hornets beating Saints at the athletic grounds but the last time they beat Saints away was under a labour prime minister….called Atlee!

[meast]

On 17/08/2022 at 19:34, Barley Mow said:

No, this isn't a call to bring back the County Leagues.

 

Just for fun (I know, I've got an odd idea of what's fun) I worked out what league tables would look like so far this season for matches played between teams from their own counties.

Below are the Yorkshire, Lancashire and 'others' league tables for the professional/semi-pro divisions.

Without wanting this to get into another what constitutes Lancashire discussion - I've used the traditional counties rather than current administrative areas.

Loop fixtures & Summer Bash mean that there will be different numbers of matches played by teams in Super League and Championship come the end of the season so I've added a percentage points column.

 

 

Most of it is pretty predictable based on the actual league tables, but Leeds are above Castleford and Halifax above Featherstone.

Another Yorkshire league success for Huddersfield then  

[koli]

If I remember correctly Barrow ,Warrington and Whitehaven were in the “Lancashire “League and,I might be wrong here,Halifax due to the Yorkshire imbalance.

[Anita Bath]

Yes but the yorkshire team transferred to Gods county changed from year to year I think.

[Barley Mow]

Mistakes corrected (I hope) and tables updated to include this weekend's results as promised:

 

 

[Barley Mow]

With Sheffield and Dewsbury finishing off the regular season last night, I thought I'd update these in case anyone is interested:

Interesting that Wakefield finished above Hull FC and Saints and Wigan finished level as did Salford and Warrington.

[Griff]

On 20/08/2022 at 12:06, koli said:

If I remember correctly Barrow ,Warrington and Whitehaven were in the “Lancashire “League and,I might be wrong here,Halifax due to the Yorkshire imbalance.

Warrington is in Lancashire, so what more natural? Maybe you're confusing them with Workington, as did my geograhically challenged ex many years ago when I suggested going to a match at Warrington on the way to a holiday in North Wales. ("How is Warrington on the way to Wales?")

It wasn't always Halfax, though it often was. Leeds volunteered for several years. There was a drawing of lots at some point. It was always a bit ad hoc.

[marklaspalmas]

15 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

With Sheffield and Dewsbury finishing off the regular season last night, I thought I'd update these in case anyone is interested:

Interesting that Wakefield finished above Hull FC and Saints and Wigan finished level as did Salford and Warrington.

Good list, BM, thanks.

There's a loss missing from the Elsewhere League 1 column, but otherwise it all adds up.